An easy way to encourage people to try out more attribute builds in character creation

[Infinitron]

Right now, when it comes the time to allocate attributes in character creation, all the attributes are initially set to their minimum values, and the player has a seemingly huge number of free points to allocate.

 

I think that, psychologically, that encourages players to dump a lot of points into one stat - often the first one, Might - and maximize it, because they feel like they have a ton of them.

 

This is reducing the coverage of different attribute builds that the beta testers are trying out, and furthermore, it's the cause of probably unwarranted accusations about how "everything except Might is a dump stat".

 

Luckily, there's probably an easy way to address this. Don't start out all the attributes at their minimum value. Start them at an average value of 12 or so.

 

Players will (seemingly) have less free points at their disposal, so they'll think more carefully about where they put them. Furthermore, they'll be reluctant to give up points that they "already have" allocated in their attributes, so they'll be less likely to dump all stats in favor of one. They'll become more aware of the advantages and disadvantages of each attribute, and how it affects gameplay.

 

The only downside of this, of course, is that more players will be playing with "jack of all trades" characters and coverage of "extreme" builds will be reduced. But I think it's worth it.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Infinitron

[Osvir]

Totally worth it.

This isn't something that has particularly bothered me (I've made one "dump" stat character just for running around and beta testing), when I'm making a more serious character, tributing IE-character, the points are more evened out to reflect the character and not the min-maxer gamer.

Base/Minimum should be somewhere around 10-12 imo, with ability to do locked dice roll (only one role for each attribute) or random dice rolls. And perhaps Races having higher Attribute effects (like in Baldur's Gate), some Races had different "minimum caps" as well, some higher than others. This could work too.

[Infinitron]

Let me clarify that I'm absolutely not suggesting that it not be possible to reduce attributes below 12. They should just be initialized to a default value of 12 or so, with the possibility to reduce them to gain more free points.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Infinitron

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think having all stats at around 10(before racial or cultural modifiers) would be the way to go. I've been trying to have most stats at least average, so showing me what is average will help when I test out less rounded builds.

 

Also, is any one else getting a cap for attributes? For my meadow human might was capped at 19.

[Amentep]

Its a good idea.

 

In addition, to cover extreme builds, I wonder if a group of backers could co-ordinate testing some extreme builds together so that a wider group of testing can be done without everyone testing the same build)

 

Perhaps using a thread to post which attribute will be concentrated on and with which class?

[PrimeJunta]

I like that idea, @Amentep. I'm in but not in this build. Let's wait a bit until it's stable enough that you can play through most of it most of the time without hitting one of the game-breakers (disappearing inventory or quests, in particular).

[Gfted1]

I think having all stats at around 10(before racial or cultural modifiers) would be the way to go. I've been trying to have most stats at least average, so showing me what is average will help when I test out less rounded builds.

 

Also, is any one else getting a cap for attributes? For my meadow human might was capped at 19.

 

With my human Mage I started everything at 10 then maxed out Might (19), Intelligence (18) and dumped the last point into Con.

 

I cant see any reason to not max out Might (unless you are doing that self gimp thing).

[Osvir]

Let me clarify that I'm absolutely not suggesting that it not be possible to reduce attributes below 12. They should just be initialized to a default value of 12 or so, with the possibility to reduce them to gain more free points.

Okay, I was suggesting that it not be possible below a certain cap. My memory is a bit rusty on the character creation in the IE games, but I recall that some race+class combo could give a Min cap of 11-13 Dex, Con, Int. IIRC. Now the minimum cap is like, 3-4 on all stats, what I'm suggesting is that they should range from 6-13 in Min value. But not below.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Osvir

[Shevek]

They could also add a die roll icon and just have the fixed stat pool be randomly allocated when its pressed. People who dont want to think too hard about stat allocation or want to be a bit more old school can roll for stats and build their characters around the assigned stats.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Shevek

[termokanden]

I think this is a good idea. It's easier to figure out what "extreme" even means when the game starts out by showing you the average.

 

I was also thinking about previous systems where it was more expensive to increase starting stats the higher they got. You could certainly max the stats you found most valuable, but for specializing you had to pay a price by lowering something else. Even in such a system, it can be useful to max something if you want a very specialized character and will be covering their weakness with other characters. At the same time, there's a big bonus for taking a little bit of everything since you get much more out of your points.

[Tale]

I like this idea and agree. I've created two characters and I always start by saying "Ehh, just raise everything to 9. Oh, there's still tons more, raise it to 12. Great, still more. Just pump Might all the way up. Now I can finally get fiddly."

[Wintersong]

With my human Mage I started everything at 10 then maxed out Might (19), Intelligence (18) and dumped the last point into Con.

 

I cant see any reason to not max out Might (unless you are doing that self gimp thing).

I don't feel that my non maxed Might characters are gimped at all.

[Gfted1]

 

With my human Mage I started everything at 10 then maxed out Might (19), Intelligence (18) and dumped the last point into Con.

 

I cant see any reason to not max out Might (unless you are doing that self gimp thing).

I don't feel that my non maxed Might characters are gimped at all.

 

 

Sure, except for your Damage, Healing and Fortitude being lower.

[WDeranged]

Yeah, I raised all mine to 13 as a baseline and tweaked from there.

[Wintersong]

Sure, except for your Damage, Healing and Fortitude being lower.

Of course. But my stats in other areas are bigger. Would be unreasonalbe a wizard specialized in big areas and interruption/ailments?

 

Maybe in the highest dificulty settings the superspecialization is a must (the enemies hit harder so you need to kill them faster?). As I never play those, I don't know if that's the case.

[Cantousent]

Let me clarify that I'm absolutely not suggesting that it not be possible to reduce attributes below 12. They should just be initialized to a default value of 12 or so, with the possibility to reduce them to gain more free points.

I like the idea much better this way.  Setting them at an average point would be a gentle way to *encourage* casual players to have a more balanced build.  Players who like to tinker can then min/max if they want.  I think players should be more or less free to play how they want to play, but players who like a lot of freedom will look for it and they'll find out right away they can reduce stats from the initial setting.

[PrimeHydra]

Luckily, there's probably an easy way to address this. Don't start out all the attributes at their minimum value. Start them at an average value of 12 or so.

this is a good idea--I end up pumping everything up to 10 or 12 anyway, for fear of being vulnerable due to a horrible stat. Then I put the rest into what I feel are my char's specialties.

[Kronos]

Maybe a good idea is to "kind of" go down the Elder Scrolls route... ie: ask a series of interesting storyboard questions about the character and automatically populate a character that way based on your selections; would certainly take the headache out of selection starting attributes. Just throwing it out there. To be honest I could roll with that!

[taviow]

Completely agree with OP.

Edited August 22, 2014 by taviow