Game difficulty

[Osvir]

When I'm not paying attention, or slipping on one move, I can quickly find myself getting beaten down with little room for comeback. It is crucial to pay attention to your characters positioning, and trying to keep a frontline blockade. I played the very first time with everything on (Path of the Damned) and I got crushed easily. I didn't know what to do though, but I believe if I went into that mode again it'd be easier.

There are some exploits that can be used to win combat easily as well. Skeletons summoned by the Chanter are OP and last forever and can tank really well too.

But, putting exploits aside, the game is difficult when following the "rules" and not trying to cheat or use cheap tactics. In big fights I feel that every class is involved, Priest buffs, aura's, even attacking with an Arquebust helps.

Hard is tough enough that if you lose 1 character, you might lose the entire battle. I haven't tried easier difficulties just yet.

[Namutree]

I've been playing on hard difficulty with expert mode on. So far the challenge has been appropriate and fun, outside of the bugs that require you to really be aware of them, or even just start over.

 

Regardless, I don't get a power-boner when I stomp all over weak enemies. I feel like I'm having my hand held and my back patted simultaneously while someone says "who's a big boy?! YOU are!".  I get satisfaction from fights like, say, wiping out another party about your own size. There's just as many of them as there are of you, and they're sentient beings that are very determined not to be the ones loaded into body bags. Why SHOULDN'T it be an awfully brutal struggle? I still remember the names of those Amnish aristocrats from the Cloudpeaks in BG1 because they were so lethal.

Here's why weak trash mobs help a rpg game:

 

A) They provide a quick break from exploration.

 

B) They provide variety to combat pace. With trash mobs some fights are short and simple; without them all the fights are long and complicated. That will make the game feel repetitive. Unless poe is going to be very short; this will be a major issue. Not every encounter should feel the same.

 

C) For some players it is entertaining squash weaklings.

 

Here's why strong trash mobs hurt a rpg game:

 

A) They hinder exploration by forcing players to be very cautious.. Hard to enjoy the scenery when I'm constantly concerned that if my party spreads out too much or if I progress too fast I'll be killed. 

 

B) Strong trash mobs slow the player down too much. When traveling a short distance takes a long time because the fights take forever its going to make the game feel slow and boring. It doesn't matter how challenging these fights are; they will never be engaging, it would be nice if they were at least quick.

 

C) Strong trash mobs heavily encourage power gaming. After all; if your team is a bit under powered the game is going to be a nightmare. Every time you try to do anything it's going to be a struggle.

 

D) It will make the game repetitive. Every fight will be around the same difficulty; that lack of variety could very well be a game wrecker. Most people won't know why, but the whole game will feel unmemorable due to having no special battles. Every battle will be heavily tactical; thus none of them stand out.

 

E) It will fatigue people mentally. Whenever a task requires a great deal of attention or focus; it drains mental energy. While sometimes I like having my limits tested; it gets tiresome eventually. It's kinda like running. Sometimes running can be fun, but often I just like to walk to my destination.

[Panteleimon]

I didn't say I don't understand the need for some fights to be easier than others. But even a Kobold can sneak in an arrow that kills someone and brings you out of that lazy comfort zone. When you walk through their hood, you're bound to come through on the other side with holes in you, even if they're 'only Kobolds'.

 

But when we're talking about fighting Nyfre in the inn? Or the guys looking for her on the riverbank? Those people are just like you. It should be one hell of a fight. Ogres? Mr. Sawyer himself said the only reason they don't take over the civilized races in the area is because they fight so much. They're practically an intelligent force of nature. Of course the Ogre is a tough SOB. No promises you'll all make it through, if at all. And that's WHY you don't HAVE to fight in those encounters AT ALL.

Don't want to take the risk of you and/or your party getting wasted? Don't want to have to spend a couple days resting up and licking your wounds? Look for the peaceful solution, maybe not because you don't want to hurt anyone, but because you're not comfortable you can take them. Just like sizing up an opponent in RL.

 

Nothing is so commonly lacking and so desperately needed in RPGs and games in general nowadays like forcing humility and respect for the other people and creatures in the world on the player.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Panteleimon

[Namutree]

I just killed the ogre again. The trash mobs were stronger than he was. So lame.

[PrimeJunta]

I just killed the ogre again. The trash mobs were stronger than he was. So lame.

 

You must've been doing something wrong fighting the trash mobs. How were you fighting them?

[Giubba]

 

I just killed the ogre again. The trash mobs were stronger than he was. So lame.

 

You must've been doing something wrong fighting the trash mobs. How were you fighting them?

 

 

They are trash mobs for **** sake, you shouldn't need Patton level of warfare skill for killing them.

 

And between the difference is that the ogre is one mob so he's more manageable while trash usually come in packs that takes little to no damage and punchs like dragons.

[Namutree]

I didn't say I don't understand the need for some fights to be easier than others. But even a Kobold can sneak in an arrow that kills someone and brings you out of that lazy comfort zone. When you walk through their hood, you're bound to come through on the other side with holes in you, even if they're 'only Kobolds'.

 

But when we're talking about fighting Nyfre in the inn? Or the guys looking for her on the riverbank? Those people are just like you. it should be one hell of a fight. Ogres? Mr. Sawyer himself said the only reason they don' take over the civilized races in the area is because they fight so much. They're practically an intelligent force of nature. Of course the Ogre is a tough SOB. No promises you'll all make it through, if at all. And that's WHY you don't HAVE to fight in those encounters AT ALL. Don't want to take the risk of you and/or your party getting wasted? Don't want to have to spend a couple days resting up and licking your wounds? Look for the peaceful solution.

 

Nothing is so commonly lacking and so desperately needed in RPGs and games in general nowadays like forcing humility and respect for the other people and creatures in the world on the player.

I have only suggested that the petty enemies should be easier. Not the Ogre. Not Nyfre. Not any of the special fights.

 

 But even a Kobold can sneak in an arrow that kills someone and brings you out of that lazy comfort zone. When you walk through their hood, you're bound to come through on the other side with holes in you, even if they're 'only Kobolds'.

 

Not at mid-level. See in early level every thing is dangerous. Then at mid-level trash mobs become fodder, but semi-special enemies are still tough. Finally, at high-level only very special foes are a challenge. That's variety. It seems in poe; low/mid/high levels will be the same.

 

 

I didn't say I don't understand the need for some fights to be easier than others.

That is exactly what poe seems like it will do. All the fights will be just as tough as the others, or rather the gap between the "easy" fights and the "hard" fights will be very narrow.

 

 

 

Nothing is so commonly lacking and so desperately needed in RPGs and games in general nowadays like forcing humility and respect for the other people and creatures in the world on the player.

Poe was not pitched as a bold experiment in rpg game design. It was pitched as a return to what was familiar. The bizarre difficulty curve is the antithesis of that pitch.

[Namutree]

 

I just killed the ogre again. The trash mobs were stronger than he was. So lame.

 

You must've been doing something wrong fighting the trash mobs. How were you fighting them?

 

It could be that I was fighting them wrong, I guess. I'll described how I fought the mobs, and how I fought the ogre.

 

1st mob fight against the beetles:

 

A saw a large beetle and I think a small one too. I had my mage cast a fire-ball at it. Then I had my tanks (The fighter and my bear; Tina) move forward towards the beetles while sending my mage back. I had my pc(Ranger) target a big with the marked prey spell while the priest used a zone of protection. The rouge sttod back and shot the beetles with arrows. I had my mage cast magic missiles when he could. My tank was in defense mode obviously, and whenever anyone on my team took any stamina damage I had my healer cast restore stamina. Ultimately I beat them without a casualty, but I had to be vigilant to ensure my tank never fell. At worst he lost half his stamina. Although that one beetle digging underground undermined my plan a bit. Not that it really mattered.

 

All the mob battles were about that hard.

 

Ogre battle:

 

Pretty much the same strategy. The Ogre did about the same amount of stamina damage as the trash mobs, but due to him being only one foe; it felt like I was in control the whole time.

[Panteleimon]

I know you were talking about petty enemies. I'm simply speaking to a couple other things.

 

I had relative trouble with Kobolds even at higher levels in BG1. They were throwing around enough arrows that some of them were bound to stick. The elite ones that used elemental or poisoned arrows were a big deal. Regardless, slaughtering dozens of them DID gradually deplete resources and didn't come at zero cost. There's nothing experimental or alien  about not letting the player and his party literally run all over the world with a steamroller like Skyrim or Dragon Age.

 

The fact that the fights are plateaued in difficulty is obviously a temporary balancing issue in the same vein as the chanter being insanely OP. Drawing attention to it is commendable, hand-wringing over it as though it was a conscious final design choice is not.

[PrimeJunta]

@Namutree what weapons were you using? 

 

Hint: "I will _____ you like a bug!"

[Namutree]

 

The fact that the fights are plateaued in difficulty is obviously a temporary balancing issue in the same vein as the chanter being insanely OP. Drawing attention to it is commendable, hand-wringing over it as though it was a conscious final design choice is not.

Except that some posters want exactly that. Not to mention I have no way of knowing Obsidian will address this issue or even if it isn't intentional. It is a major problem with an easy fix. I want to bring it up so hopefully Obsidian takes notice. If I had simply posted once and let this get buried it would increase the chance this issue will not be noticed and thus not resolved. 

[Lorfean]

Can't say I agree with the OP at least where their examples are concerned -- difficulty felt pretty much right to me on Normal. Yes, tactics are required to defeat some of the "trash" mobs and it should be IMO. The lions, for example, hit hard because they're freaking lions. They shouldn't be a trivial encounter at lvl 5 just like wolves shouldn't be trivial at level 1. The challenge of these encounters (lions, spiders) seemed on par with some of the more dangerous wildlife in BG1 -- Dread Wolves, Mountain Bears, Giant / Phase spiders -- which could really mess up low lvl characters if they weren't at least a bit careful.

 

The beetles are another story, but even them I don't really mind. They've kind of become an inside joke by now anyway, and I don't mind their nastyness being a "thing" in PoE. Actually, if anything, I could've used more of a challenge on the "boss" encounters I've done so far -- both the Ogre and the Spider Queen were quite easy.

[Panteleimon]

 

 

The fact that the fights are plateaued in difficulty is obviously a temporary balancing issue in the same vein as the chanter being insanely OP. Drawing attention to it is commendable, hand-wringing over it as though it was a conscious final design choice is not.

Except that some posters want exactly that. Not to mention I have no way of knowing Obsidian will address this issue or even if it isn't intentional. It is a major problem with an easy fix. I want to bring it up so hopefully Obsidian takes notice. If I had simply posted once and let this get buried it would increase the chance this issue will not be noticed and thus not resolved. 

 

 

Fair enough.

[Sylvanpyxie]

I admit, I struggled a bit with the combat when I first started playing the beta, but now that I've gotten the hang of the combat system I'm not having much trouble at all.

 

I squish through Beetles and Lions with barely a break in my stride now. I dunno if it's just because I'm using the weapon types efficiently or what, but the only trouble I have now are related to game-play bugs. I'm actually planning to turn up the difficulty to hard later today.. Sure, I have the occasional fight where enemies get a load of lucky critical strikes, but I just don't see how you could be struggling quite as much as you say.

 

Everyone's experience is different, but I really don't see much of a problem with the trash mobs.

[Namutree]

The challenge of these encounters (lions, spiders) seemed on par with some of the more dangerous wildlife in BG1 -- Dread Wolves, Mountain Bears, Giant / Phase spiders -- which could really mess up low lvl characters if they weren't at least a bit careful.

 

Except that your party in poe isn't low level.

[ctn2003]

The game is to buggy at the moment to be easy or hard lol

[Maviarab]

Keep hearing send your tank in....mines about as useless as a chocolate fireguard lol...and is always the first to run out of stamina and die, regardless of what else I do.

 

Will also say, first enocunter with the beetles was a disaster, and that was on easy too rofl....maybe I've just got too used to modern games lately and need to get back into the mentality of how I gamed 20 years ago...when they 'did' require some thought.

 

But, with current bugs, I do agree that the trash is silly overpowered....hopefully when things are fixed that will balance itself out.

[Nixl]

I played with a priest on hard.  I think the difficulty is inconsistent between enemies.  For isnstance, the enemies in the Dyrwood ruins dungeon are pathetically easy, whereas some of the spider groups felt much harder at times.  I really hope they up the skaen cultists a little.  Although the Dyrwood ruins has more choke points and the spells used were not nearly as nasty as the petrify from the spiders. 

 

Another factor is that I think the priest class is actually pretty good.  I find that Ward Seal does a very decent amount of damage, especially on choke points. 

 

Edit: @Maviarab, perhaps do not send the tank in alone.  I think if it gets flanked that is when it will get beat down into the ground.  I have had some decent success forming a line consisting of my priest, the BB priest, and the BB warrior.  Also, I think the BB priest has a holy might type spell that provides 5+ might and 5+ consitution (not sure why I do not remember this 100% by now).  Moreover, the BB priest has ward seal, which I think injuries any enemies that walk over/stays on it.  So place a ward seal in front of the tank, where the enemies will definitely walk over.

 

That has helped me, but I admit that I do not have a 100% understanding of this game's mechanics just yet. 

Edited August 20, 2014 by Nixl

[Maviarab]

Will be on it again later, will be sure to try that out.  While different classes 'may' have some balancing issues, I'm a firm proponent of that, if the majority find it easy, then the problem must be with me (bug/stats wise aside).

 

Sounds a good tactic...and yes, some of the mechanics and stuff just seem a mess right now....and far from intuitive, but naturally, that will become easier over time.

[Osvir]

You can also activate Auto-Pause, it'll help you make sense of the combat. Experiment with the different options.

Another thing to do is use your Priest Buffs as much as you can. I notice the same thing, without the Priest buffs my party gets sometimes insta-squished, with buffs I lose, mostly, nothing.

Priests have too much AoE Buffs and more buffs should be "single target".

[Zeckul]

They should attack where it makes sense, but I think some neutral element to some of the creatures would be a good thing, rather than just have everything hostile.

Deer didn't attack on sight

[Billy O]

Out of curiosity is everyone scouting out encounters and strategically engaging enemies/attacking from range to start fights? I find this makes even the tougher fights much more manageable.

[Nixl]

Out of curiosity is everyone scouting out encounters and strategically engaging enemies/attacking from range to start fights? I find this makes even the tougher fights much more manageable.

 Yes, I did so with my BB rogue, especially in the Dyrword ruins.  I used the rogue to pull groups into another room with the best choke point (so most of Dyrwood ruins lol).  That way only two or three could attack my party at a time, and I could maximize Ward Seal/Fireball, since they would bunch up. 

[Namutree]

As Sensuki and others have posted before. Players need to rest too much between battles. My idea would also help solve this issue as well. Just another reason petty foes need less hp.

[Sylvanpyxie]

Players need to rest too much between battles

It may be that I simply haven't progressed towards harder fights yet... But I cleared out half of Dyrwood Crossing without resting. From the Wolf Pack along the southern border, up towards the Wurms and back down into Dyrwood Cave. I then cleared out 2 packs of spiders and the Spider Queen before finally resting up for the Ogre fight.

 

Admittedly this was all on Normal, maybe when I crank myself up to Hard I'll find that I need to rest a lot more, but I'm currently having no major rest requirements. It could be I just got lucky in fights or maybe having the best weapons for the enemies in question helped me kill them a lot faster than normal. I don't know, but I am personally not having the issues that you keep talking about.

 

(This was all with blessedly few bugs, I might add)

Edited August 20, 2014 by Sylvanpyxie