Animations

[Thanes]

Hi,

 

I saw the footage from Gamescom and the game looks gorgeous, but there is just one thing, that kinda bothers me - the animations. It seems so "sketchy", like the movements are not complete, end by animation cut. Especially attack animations, like shooting arrows, using the rapier, etc. It looks very weird in otherwise beautiful graphical design. Are those animations final? It seems kinda similiar to the alpha stage of the game, that's why I'm asking. I'm confused that I haven't seen anyone complaining about it, maybe it's just me. It breaks immersion for me.

And please just don't start how this game isn't about graphical presentation and stuff I know that, I bought it because I love this genre. But to be honest, even the animations in BG2/PS:T looked imo much better. Like slashing Dakkon's sword looked cool, Morte's wobbling looked very smooth, etc.

What do you think? Is it just me?

 

[Apatia]

Don't think it's just you but to me personally the animations are "good enough". Don't mind if they polish them a little but it wouldn't "break my immersion" if they are final.

 

I think I saw BAdler or some other dev say that they would still do something to the animations, like make them smoother or something like that but I doubt they will do anything major. Their priorities are elsewhere. Maybe if they have time and money left when everything else is in place. Of course this is only speculation, my personal opinions etc.

 

Edit: A bit off-topic but am I the only one who thinks this "this and that breaks my immershun" thing in games has gone a bit overboard of late? I mean, maybe it's because I've played games since the mid 80's but I don't see how animations, turn-based combat, silent protagonist or similar could break anyone's immersion. If the overall game is good, that's the only thing I need to get myself immersed. Maybe it's just me.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Apatia

[dorkboy]

I agree that PS:T had great "follow-through" on the attack animations. 

[ryukenden]

I would assume the animation is a work in progress. My guess is that they are playing around with spells and ability before finalizing it. But yes, I do notice the pivot of the spell seem like a generic position, its possible a placeholder.

[Sensuki]

Pretty sure most of the animations are still rough. They're in full polish mode now I think, so we'll likely see an improvement over the course of the beta.

[Karkarov]

Yeah we will likely see lots of improvement on that front as the beta plays out.  I find it worth mentioning the monsters didn't seem to have that same issue and their animations looked pretty nice for the most part.

[Amentep]

I thought the animations in the Gamescom footage I saw was "servicable". I could probably play the game with graphics like that and be okay. But with months til the release, I imagine that as the beta winds its way through there will be more work done on all fronts to polish and debug the game.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

The animation's budget is very small in relation to their overall budget. However, I see people post incredible animation's that take like 10 minutes to do using unity or their kinect and pc recording their movements and the results are about 500% better and probably way faster than whatever they're doing now. I know sometimes it can take a few weeks to rig depending on several things. Although unity's animation system really speeds thing's up. I've previously shared with one of their staff a tool for the animator's that does most of the work for them.

 

Here's an example of one of the tool's that would be an easy solution to improve the animation. www.ikinema.com or www.truebones.com not to mention, just utilizing the 12 basic principles of animation like anticipation and having good strong key poses, which feel absent. I'm playing a free mobile game on my phone called honorbound, and their attack animation's are fantastic. Attack's speed up and pause, then follow through smoothly which make's the attack feel much more powerful, unlike the whack a mole style currently pressent in their beta. There's still plenty of time to easily fix these though. I don't know many creature's and npc's are in the game though. Here's hoping for some animation love

Edited August 14, 2014 by Falkon Swiftblade

[Sensuki]

The Satellite Reign animator used some PSVita cameras in his office to record some p. sick animations for their game.

[ashtonw]

 I'm confused that I haven't seen anyone complaining about it, maybe it's just me. It breaks immersion for me.

 

Have you even looked around this forum? That is the number one complaint people have.

 

Edit: A bit off-topic but am I the only one who thinks this "this and that breaks my immershun" thing in games has gone a bit overboard of late? I mean, maybe it's because I've played games since the mid 80's but I don't see how animations, turn-based combat, silent protagonist or similar could break anyone's immersion. If the overall game is good, that's the only thing I need to get myself immersed. Maybe it's just me.

 

Immersion is a meaningless word and I don't know how or why it caught on but every time I see it I want to barf.

[Blarghagh]

Immersion is extremely meaningful... for games meant to create emotional responses through gameplay. (i.e. a horror game like Amnesia). This game creates emotional responses through dialogue and the rest is eye candy and tactical. Claiming something in this game breaks your immersion is like complaining something in a book breaks your immersion.

[Amentep]

Immersion is extremely meaningful... for games meant to create emotional responses through gameplay. (i.e. a horror game like Amnesia). This game creates emotional responses through dialogue and the rest is eye candy and tactical. Claiming something in this game breaks your immersion is like complaining something in a book breaks your immersion.

The closest meaning to how gamers use it for immersion is "deep mental involvement". This meaning for the word was typically used to reference the idea of being surrounded by concepts that one was totally invested in. For example if you were studying ancient Greece intently with every waking moment, you could be said to be immersed in ancient Greek culture or history.

 

For the sake of argument, I'd suppose that one could make a claim that certain game elements may effect ones "deep mental involvement" in the game/game world, but to be honest 90% of people I see saying "X broke my immersion" are just saying "it didn't give me what I wanted, so I don't like it." They might as well say "it bent my Wookie" as much as "it broke my immersion".

[IndiraLightfoot]

Alright, I just rewatched the German vid at Gamestar, and I must say the bow shot animation is a bit slack and lacklustre. It looks more like the character is playing the harp quickly, rather than firing an arrow with urgency and strength. Perhaps more stretch to the draw arm, and a cooler angle. Obviously, I realize this kind of stuff isn't easy to tweak, but that's just my opinion.

[Silent Winter]

Immersion is extremely meaningful... for games meant to create emotional responses through gameplay. (i.e. a horror game like Amnesia). This game creates emotional responses through dialogue and the rest is eye candy and tactical. Claiming something in this game breaks your immersion is like complaining something in a book breaks your immersion.

Well, something in a book can break my immersion - tends to be the fault of bad writing or 4th-wall breaking stuff or just an "oh come on!" moment.

'Immersion' in a story/game is a deep focus (in my usage of the word) - the forgetting of the outside world and the total involvement in the thing I'm focussing on.

 

Having said that - the animations will in no way break my immersion.

[Pray]

Alright, I just rewatched the German vid at Gamestar, and I must say the bow shot animation is a bit slack and lacklustre. It looks more like the character is playing the harp quickly, rather than firing an arrow with urgency and strength. Perhaps more stretch to the draw arm, and a cooler angle. Obviously, I realize this kind of stuff isn't easy to tweak, but that's just my opinion.

I agree, the rogue shooting the bow (and i noticed this in the first stream) just looks pathetic.

 

He needs to pull that string back and look like he's got some meaning in what he's doing.

[dorkboy]

After watching the 2nd video, I think the only thing that's really missing in terms of animation is some character/enemy reaction to being hit.

 

And a resting screen/scene/transition, for immershun's sake.

[Thanes]

Didn't know that I would stir such debate just with "immersion breaking" For me it just means, that some aspect stands out in a worse way than the other. So when you see amazing scenery, graphic, hear really great music and read some dialogue you just expect that other aspects of the game would be on the same quality level. There is a sudden drop in quality and I just start to think about it. I would get used to it, but it would seem such a shame no to polish them a little.

 

But to be honest, animation quality is just my thing - I remember how I loved the way Irenicus cast his spells, by weaving his hands in a different way than other mages/priests, etc. Or from the newer example the animations of Ogres in Dragon Age, you just feel the WEIGHT of the creature. I believe the weight is extremely important aspect in animation quality.

Sorry, got carried away.

 

So yeah, I probably just went a little overboard with "immersion breaking"

[Lephys]

Immersion is a meaningless word and I don't know how or why it caught on but every time I see it I want to barf.

Yeah... quite often incorrectly-used? Yes. Meaningless? Not so much.

 

If you look at stuff objectively, immersion is pretty simple: If RPGs weren't designed to objectively generate at least some immersion, then instead of that NPC saying "You must traverse the wilds of Grielsban, and hope that you manage to catch the creature unaware," etc., they'd just say "Dude, go to that quest marker that just appeared on your minimap, and kill that big green guy. You'll get a bunch of XP for it."

 

The only purpose of all that effort and writing is to have NPCs "feel" like actual people, at least to some extent. That's all immersion is. To some people, it's a bigger priority that to others, but I really doubt there are many who care absolutely nothing about it.

 

And, again, it does get incorrectly used on the reg... "This game has daggers, but not rapiers? THAT BROKE MY IMMERSION!". Really? You can't fathom a world in which the local populous simply doesn't sell rapiers? Heh... That, and the majority of things don't really break it. They just affect it. It's like road traffic; maybe it's not preferable, but you still end up getting where you're going.

[Karranthain]

I only wish that each weapon type would have two attack animations, for some variety.

 

Perhaps something for the sequel, resources permitting?

[IndiraLightfoot]

That would be really nice, Karranthain! Seconded.

[Valorian]

I only wish that each weapon type would have two attack animations, for some variety.

 

 

 

More than one attack animation per weapon type would be greatly appreciated.

[Justinian]

The combat animation right now isn't bad by any means, but there is no heft or character to the weapon swings. Actions are too short without any follow through, and it's exacerbated by the ETERNITY between weapon swings. These combat "rounds" need to be sped up and more variation in weapon swings is required.

 

Also little things like dodging out of the way slightly if a weapon grazes, clearer hit reactions, and general liveliness would be nice.

[Valorian]

The combat animation right now isn't bad by any means, but there is no heft or character to the weapon swings. Actions are too short without any follow through, and it's exacerbated by the ETERNITY between weapon swings. These combat "rounds" need to be sped up and more variation in weapon swings is required.

 

 

There's no "eternity" between weapon swings and combat certainly doesn't need to be sped up. 

Variations in weapon swings is what we're requesting here, yes.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Valorian: Agreed. The attack speed and combat speed seems to be pretty spot on for a game like this, even if some Oozes and other enemies sometimes seem to rush towards slightly too fast at times.

[Sensuki]

 

I only wish that each weapon type would have two attack animations, for some variety.

 

 

More than one attack animation per weapon type would be greatly appreciated.

 

Agreed. The IE games had three different types and most weapons used at least two of them.