The state of Feminism, the good the bad

[Longknife]

 

Well, yeah. SJWs seem to have a burning hatred for the celebration of sex and the human body, particularly when it comes to women. They also don't seem to be able to comprehend that you can admire the beauty of a woman without reducing her to a **** doll, which I think says a lot more about them than the people who do like to look at women.

 

I also find it funny that instead of bothering to do any sort of fact checking they start throwing out accusations of sexism.

I'm trying to find that study that said that girls with high self esteem were least likely to identify as a feminist.

 

 

 

I can't say I know of one of those, however, I do know that recent studies have shown that sex workers such as strippers, prostitutes and porn stars actually have incredibly high self-esteem and the stereotype of them having "daddy issues" or issues with being content with their body image are untrue.

[Fighter]

[BruceVC]

 

"Yawn"

 

This is just more anti-feminist propaganda and hyperbole

 

Not sure what its significance is suppose to be?

Edited September 7, 2014 by BruceVC

[Orogun01]

 

:snip:

 

"Yawn"

 

This is just more anti-feminist propaganda and hyperbole

 

Not sure what its significance is suppose to be?

 

Reductio ad absurdum, which is redundant since there is nothing more absurd than believing that helping women and saving them is misogynist.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Well, yeah. SJWs seem to have a burning hatred for the celebration of sex and the human body, particularly when it comes to women. They also don't seem to be able to comprehend that you can admire the beauty of a woman without reducing her to a **** doll, which I think says a lot more about them than the people who do like to look at women.

 

I also find it funny that instead of bothering to do any sort of fact checking they start throwing out accusations of sexism.

I'm trying to find that study that said that girls with high self esteem were least likely to identify as a feminist.

 

 

 

I can't say I know of one of those, however, I do know that recent studies have shown that sex workers such as strippers, prostitutes and porn stars actually have incredibly high self-esteem and the stereotype of them having "daddy issues" or issues with being content with their body image are untrue.

 

 

I would love to see that study that suggests  strippers and escorts have high self-esteem and are proud of there jobs

 

They have confidence in certain arenas as they know what motivates men but its not like they get on to a bus or meet someone in a line in a shopping mall when asked what they do for a living they proudly say "I have the most amazing and liberating job, I have sex with men for money" ...

[BruceVC]

 

 

:snip:

 

"Yawn"

 

This is just more anti-feminist propaganda and hyperbole

 

Not sure what its significance is suppose to be?

 

Reductio ad absurdum, which is redundant since there is nothing more absurd than believing that helping women and saving them is misogynist.

 

 

I agree, but who exactly is suggesting that  helping women is considered misogynistic? I have missed that part of the conversation ?

[licketysplit]

 

 

"Yawn"

 

This is just more anti-feminist propaganda and hyperbole

 

Not sure what its significance is suppose to be?

 

 

 That is, as a matter of fact, the exact angle Anita and her foaming at the mouth supporters take. Also, her eyebrows are perfect. PERFECT.

Edited September 7, 2014 by licketysplit

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

"Yawn"

 

This is just more anti-feminist propaganda and hyperbole

 

Not sure what its significance is suppose to be?

 

 

 That is, as a matter of fact, the exact angle Anita and her foaming at the mouth supporters take. Also, her eyebrows are perfect. PERFECT.

 

 

No its an exaggeration and misinterpretation of what  most people who support feminist ideals believe. Unless of course Anita actually said those things about crayons in which case I apologize. But for me its just a cheap shot at feminism by someone who  created a fictitious image, using Photoshop,  and used her image to encourage ridicule of the feminist movement.

Edited September 7, 2014 by BruceVC

[Barothmuk]

I can't say I know of one of those, however, I do know that recent studies have shown that sex workers such as strippers, prostitutes and porn stars actually have incredibly high self-esteem.

Haha, oh wow.

 

This thread.

[licketysplit]

 

 

 

 

"Yawn"

 

This is just more anti-feminist propaganda and hyperbole

 

Not sure what its significance is suppose to be?

 

 

 That is, as a matter of fact, the exact angle Anita and her foaming at the mouth supporters take. Also, her eyebrows are perfect. PERFECT.

 

 

No its an exaggeration and misinterpretation of what  most people who support feminist ideals believe. Unless of course Anita actually said those things about crayons in which case I apologize. But for me its just a cheap shot at feminism by someone who  created a fictitious image, using Photoshop,  and used her image to encourage ridicule of the feminist movement.

 

 

What part of modern Feminism are you supporting? Most of it seems pretty hateful to me. It's a destructive ideology, no at all interested in being inclusive.

[Longknife]

 

 

 

Well, yeah. SJWs seem to have a burning hatred for the celebration of sex and the human body, particularly when it comes to women. They also don't seem to be able to comprehend that you can admire the beauty of a woman without reducing her to a **** doll, which I think says a lot more about them than the people who do like to look at women.

I also find it funny that instead of bothering to do any sort of fact checking they start throwing out accusations of sexism.

 

I'm trying to find that study that said that girls with high self esteem were least likely to identify as a feminist.

 

 

I can't say I know of one of those, however, I do know that recent studies have shown that sex workers such as strippers, prostitutes and porn stars actually have incredibly high self-esteem and the stereotype of them having "daddy issues" or issues with being content with their body image are untrue.

 

I would love to see that study that suggests  strippers and escorts have high self-esteem and are proud of there jobs

 

They have confidence in certain arenas as they know what motivates men but its not like they get on to a bus or meet someone in a line in a shopping mall when asked what they do for a living they proudly say "I have the most amazing and liberating job, I have sex with men for money" ...

  

 

I can't say I know of one of those, however, I do know that recent studies have shown that sex workers such as strippers, prostitutes and porn stars actually have incredibly high self-esteem.

Haha, oh wow.This thread.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/26/porn-stars-higher-self-esteem_n_2192214.html

http://realdoctorstu.com/2012/03/12/the-psychological-cost-of-being-a-stripper/

 

I got it half-right. Porn stars are the ones I read the study on, there are multiple little smaller stories saying there is no self-esteem correlation to stripping, good or bad, and prostitution gets the same "no correlation" speech with an asterisk mentioning that prostitution in various parts of the world can house women who feel forced or trapped within it by an economic situation or an addiction, and that sort of scenario can be connected to low self esteem; some specific prostitute situations yes, others (merely working as one or working normally in a country where it's legal or protected, or working as one to help pay university costs) are perfectly normal.

 

 

Anyways, point was I doubt feminists would be quick to put porn stars and strippers on a pedestal as the face of feminism, and quite ironically they seem to be perfectly content with their lives and who they are with porn stars having above average satisfaction in life on multiple fronts.

 

 

Slightly relevant, I could also find studies suggesting "feminism is the worst thing to happen to women" if you guys want. In a nutshell is simply shows a correlation between life satisfaction and depression in women taking a fall and rise respectively since the feminist movement began. Why? Well duh, because society began expecting more from them. Before they had it kinda easy on the work front but now a woman is expected to handle an equal portion of the work load with admitted prejudice on the job market (employers often admit to avoiding hiring women interested in having children for obvious reasons and I'd imagine this very same thing is what motivates others to pay women slightly lower. Not defending them here, mind you).

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

What part of modern Feminism are you supporting? Most of it seems pretty hateful to me. It's a destructive ideology, no at all interested in being inclusive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Yawn"

 

This is just more anti-feminist propaganda and hyperbole

 

Not sure what its significance is suppose to be?

 

 

 That is, as a matter of fact, the exact angle Anita and her foaming at the mouth supporters take. Also, her eyebrows are perfect. PERFECT.

 

 

No its an exaggeration and misinterpretation of what  most people who support feminist ideals believe. Unless of course Anita actually said those things about crayons in which case I apologize. But for me its just a cheap shot at feminism by someone who  created a fictitious image, using Photoshop,  and used her image to encourage ridicule of the feminist movement.

 

 

What part of modern Feminism are you supporting? Most of it seems pretty hateful to me. It's a destructive ideology, no at all interested in being inclusive.

 

I think that BruceVC is supporting his romanticized view of feminists movement. And like some supporters of other movements (not unlike communism, fascism, nationalism, etc.) he is blinded on what the movement he supports is really like.

 

 

Okay I've made this point several times but I'll make it again

 

Feminism is a movement that wants equality of the genders in society and in the eyes of the law where it is reasonable. Feminism does not say men are inferior, it isn't about a hatred of men and isn't about ensuring women are equal to men at the expense of men now becoming less than women. Yes you do get radical feminists like the link that was posted that said consensual sex is tantamount to rape but I reject that and all the people I know who care about gender equality reject that type of thinking as well

 

Certain  people on this forums don't like  the fact that there is a movement in the gaming industry to ensure fair and reasonable gender equality. The result of this a complete dismissal and rejection of anything that comes from anyone associated with the feminist movement. In other words all feminists are painted with the radical feminist brush. And that is unhelpful to understanding what most people who support these movements want

[Barothmuk]

Anyways, point was I doubt feminists would be quick to put porn stars and strippers on a pedestal as the face of feminism,

No but there are plenty who support these professions as "pro-woman" and "empowering"*.

 

Surely you're aware of the dichotomies between the "second" and "third" waves or so-called "sex-negative" verse "sex-positive" feminisms and are not simply reducing numerous interpretations of practice and theory within the feminist movement into one incredibly crude caricature.

 

 

*I do not.

 

and quite ironically they seem to be perfectly content with their lives and who they are with porn stars having above average satisfaction in life on multiple fronts.

Jenna Jameson: ”Most girls get their first experience in gonzo films – in which they’re taken to a crappy studio apartment in Mission Hills and penetrated in every hole possible by some abusive **** who thinks her name is Bitch.”

 

Alexa James: ”The first shoot I did was with a man who was probably 40 and he was as thick as a soda can. He held me down and shoved it in me with no lube tearing my vagina. When I started to tear up and cry he flipped me over and continued from behind be so they wouldn’t get me crying on film. He pulled my hair and choked me over and over again even when I told him it hurt and I could barely breathe.”

 

Andi Anderson: "After a year or so of that so-called “glamorous” life, I sadly discovered that drugs and drinking were a part of the lifestyle. I began to drink and party out of control! Cocaine, alcohol and ecstasy were my favorites. Before long, I turned into a person I did not want to be. After doing so many hardcore scenes I couldn’t do it anymore. I just remember being in horrible situations and experiencing extreme depression and being alone and sad.”

 

Jessie Jewels: ”People in the porn industry are numb to real life and are like zombies walking around. The abuse that goes on in this industry is completely ridiculous. The way these young ladies are treated is totally sick and brainwashing. I left due to the trauma I experienced even though I was there only a short time.”

 

Genevieve: ”I had bodily fluids all over my face that had to stay on my face for ten minutes. The abuse and degradation was rough. I sweated and was in deep pain. On top of the horrifying experience, my whole body ached, and I was irritable the whole day. The director didn’t really care how I felt; he only wanted to finish the video.”

 

Jessi Summers: ”I also did a scene where I was put with male talent that was on my no list. I wanted to please them so I did it. He put his foot on my head and stepped on it while he was doing me from behind. I freaked out and started balling; they stopped filming and sent me home with reduced pay since they got some shot but not the whole scene.

 

And so on.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Barothmuk

[BruceVC]

 

Anyways, point was I doubt feminists would be quick to put porn stars and strippers on a pedestal as the face of feminism,

No but there are plenty who support these professions as "pro-woman" and "empowering"*.

 

Surely you're aware of the dichotomies between the "second" and "third" waves or so-called "sex-negative" verse "sex-positive" feminisms and are not simply reducing numerous interpretations of practice and theory within the feminist movement into one incredibly crude caricature.

 

 

*I do not.

 

and quite ironically they seem to be perfectly content with their lives and who they are with porn stars having above average satisfaction in life on multiple fronts.

Jenna Jameson: ”Most girls get their first experience in gonzo films – in which they’re taken to a crappy studio apartment in Mission Hills and penetrated in every hole possible by some abusive **** who thinks her name is Bitch.”

 

Alexa James: ”The first shoot I did was with a man who was probably 40 and he was as thick as a soda can. He held me down and shoved it in me with no lube tearing my vagina. When I started to tear up and cry he flipped me over and continued from behind be so they wouldn’t get me crying on film. He pulled my hair and choked me over and over again even when I told him it hurt and I could barely breathe.”

 

Andi Anderson: "After a year or so of that so-called “glamorous” life, I sadly discovered that drugs and drinking were a part of the lifestyle. I began to drink and party out of control! Cocaine, alcohol and ecstasy were my favorites. Before long, I turned into a person I did not want to be. After doing so many hardcore scenes I couldn’t do it anymore. I just remember being in horrible situations and experiencing extreme depression and being alone and sad.”

 

Jessie Jewels: ”People in the porn industry are numb to real life and are like zombies walking around. The abuse that goes on in this industry is completely ridiculous. The way these young ladies are treated is totally sick and brainwashing. I left due to the trauma I experienced even though I was there only a short time.”

 

Genevieve: ”I had bodily fluids all over my face that had to stay on my face for ten minutes. The abuse and degradation was rough. I sweated and was in deep pain. On top of the horrifying experience, my whole body ached, and I was irritable the whole day. The director didn’t really care how I felt; he only wanted to finish the video.”

 

Jessi Summers: ”I also did a scene where I was put with male talent that was on my no list. I wanted to please them so I did it. He put his foot on my head and stepped on it while he was doing me from behind. I freaked out and started balling; they stopped filming and sent me home with reduced pay since they got some shot but not the whole scene.

 

And so on.

 

 

Geez that's an important but depressing insight into the life of a porn star, especially in the early days when they are building there career. No I don't think its a job that gives you much pride or satisfaction?

[Longknife]

Feminism: Cherry-pick information to match your agenda!

 

 

 

Dude the point is there's NO CORRELATION between low self esteem and being a porn star. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it doesn't mean everyone will think omg best job ever. However in the study conducted, the AVERAGE porn star had self esteem exceeding the national average for a person. This doesn't mean every pornstar ever has self esteem made of indestructible iron, it means the accusations that the job is demeaning and only people with low self esteem would seek it out is absolute nonsense. FFS I think I recall one porn star who committed suicide a couple years back; of course those exist.

 

 

But to state it's the norm and omg we need to rescue them from themselves or they dunno how to live happy lives or whatever? GTFO.

[Elerond]

I support feminism and feminist when their meaning for the word feminism is to establish, and defend equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights between sexes even in cases where they focus on those sectors where women have less rights than men. If they use some other meaning for the word I probably don't support their cause.

 

Longknife: Cherry-picking information to match your agenda is something that cannot be awarded to any singular movement as it is something that humans do by nature (confirmation bias) and therefore all movements will be guilty of it, even movements that are so determined to show that feminist (or some other) movements do so. 

[Barothmuk]

Dude the point is there's NO CORRELATION between low self esteem and being a porn star.

According to one questionable study with a sample size of 177.

 

It means the accusations that the job is demeaning and only people with low self esteem would seek it out is absolute nonsense.

Good thing this isn't my point at all. I don't believe porn targets women who have low self-esteem or only those with low self-esteem become porn-stars.

 

Rather, pornography (i.e. the content porn studios produce) is an exploitive industry that typically hires women from lower socio-economic backgrounds and subjects them to abuse, degradation and rape. For every so-called "success story" there's thousands of failures who are subject to the abuse in those quotes and make little from it.

[Fighter]

I support common sense.

[Volourn]

"Feminism is a movement that wants equality of the genders in society and in the eyes of the law where it is reasonable."

 

No.

 

 

"Feminism does not say men are inferior, it isn't about a hatred of men and isn't about ensuring women are equal to men at the expense of men now becoming less than women"

 

Yes, it is.

 

 

". Yes you do get radical feminists like the link that was posted that said consensual sex is tantamount to rape but I reject that and all the people I know who care about gender equality reject that type of thinking as well"

 

Then you aren't feminists, but equalists.

 

All feminists, by definition, are sexist bigots. No better than those who believe men are superior. Both groups are scumbag pieces of crap. It's right in the name. FEMINISM. It is auto anti male. That's the agenda.

\

\I'm in equalist. I belive in TRUE equality. You do not. You believe females are inherently  more worth saving than males. That's evil.

[Longknife]

Longknife: Cherry-picking information to match your agenda is something that cannot be awarded to any singular movement as it is something that humans do by nature (confirmation bias) and therefore all movements will be guilty of it, even movements that are so determined to show that feminist (or some other) movements do so.

 

Of course. Didn't mean to sound like I was saying only feminism can be guilty of it, but rather that a LOT of the drama currently surrounding feminism can be summed up as "someone cherry-picked a comment and then said a thing in which they judged and stereotyped an ENTIRE group," which of course is an absolute nonsense method.

 

And that's exactly what's happening here. Dude I don't care if you've got a problem with the study I cited ("you" being barothmuk here, before there's any confusion) only having a sample size of 177. 1) Please name more than 177 porn stars. I'm a dude with a **** and I can't even name 177 pornstars 2) Even if you consider that study questionable, that does not validate your counter claim that porn stars lack self esteem. You've cherry picked ones that match your agenda and therefore omg everything you think about porn stars is automatically right and ITS TIME TO PULL NUMBERS OUT OF OUR ASS: "for every porn star success story there are THOUSANDS of failures!" THOUSANDS of porn stars with low self-esteem! An estimated 177,000 at least!

 

Seriously, gtfo with that ****. I don't care what your cause is, you should learn to have an objective debate before you even try to get **** done or open your mouth.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

They have confidence in certain arenas as they know what motivates men but its not like they get on to a bus or meet someone in a line in a shopping mall when asked what they do for a living they proudly say "I have the most amazing and liberating job, I have sex with men for money" ...

Yeah, but is that because they are ashamed or because of the social stigma from other people? As long as there are black people who think that prostitutes and escorts can be raped because of the job they have, I don't expect even the prouders of them to inform the world of their occupation.

I don't know how ****ed up things are where you live, but here no one thinks it's ok to rape strippers, prostitutes, or pornstars.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Longknife: Cherry-picking information to match your agenda is something that cannot be awarded to any singular movement as it is something that humans do by nature (confirmation bias) and therefore all movements will be guilty of it, even movements that are so determined to show that feminist (or some other) movements do so.

 

Of course. Didn't mean to sound like I was saying only feminism can be guilty of it, but rather that a LOT of the drama currently surrounding feminism can be summed up as "someone cherry-picked a comment and then said a thing in which they judged and stereotyped an ENTIRE group," which of course is an absolute nonsense method.

 

And that's exactly what's happening here. Dude I don't care if you've got a problem with the study I cited ("you" being barothmuk here, before there's any confusion) only having a sample size of 177. 1) Please name more than 177 porn stars. I'm a dude with a **** and I can't even name 177 pornstars 2) Even if you consider that study questionable, that does not validate your counter claim that porn stars lack self esteem. You've cherry picked ones that match your agenda and therefore omg everything you think about porn stars is automatically right and ITS TIME TO PULL NUMBERS OUT OF OUR ASS: "for every porn star success story there are THOUSANDS of failures!" THOUSANDS of porn stars with low self-esteem! An estimated 177,000 at least!

 

Seriously, gtfo with that ****. I don't care what your cause is, you should learn to have an objective debate before you even try to get **** done or open your mouth.

I wouldn't bother dude. Baroboy can't even insert important facts of studies he posts(see Ukraine thread).

[Longknife]

I don't know how ****ed up things are where you live, but here no one thinks it's ok to rape strippers, prostitutes, or pornstars.

I for one just find it fascinating that everyone's all up in arms cause omg someone suggested those people might not be miserable victims of the state and might be quite happy and content people. Don't get me wrong, yes there are plenty of sex trafficking rings in parts of the world where it is tantamount to slavery, but there's also plenty of women who just think it sounds fun. I don't find it very productive to focus on the types we all agree are slavery in rougher parts of the world as those very same parts are likely to have all kinds of problems; the issue is not exclusive to sex work, it's exclusive to those rough areas.

 

Here, let's do a poll: how many of you actually know a stripper or sex worker? I sure do. I know about....think just the two. Thought I knew a third but I think I'm just thinking of another friend who was propositioned to do so and declined. And no, I don't go looking to purchase these services and meet them that way; I knew these girls before they started stripping. Both of them? They just like sex, simple as that. The prospect sounded fun to them. My friend who turned it down? Didn't sound fun to her so she turned it down. Simple.

And actually come to think of it I did know a third very briefly but lost contact to her. Again though, she just liked sex. There wasn't any pressure or abusive situation or anything, these were just girls that liked sex, and all three enjoyed the work. One I knew in high school and she went to do it ASAP, another thought it sounded like a fun idea to help pay for college tuition and the third I don't know that well, but I believe she just came across the work and enjoyed it.

 

 

But yeah, I just find it so stupid to sit here and try to make an incredibly broad-strokes claim that all of them lack self esteem or are victims or wtf ever. There's simply no correlation and the only study I know of even suggests the opposite effect amongst porn stars (on average, of course).

Edited September 7, 2014 by Longknife

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

They have confidence in certain arenas as they know what motivates men but its not like they get on to a bus or meet someone in a line in a shopping mall when asked what they do for a living they proudly say "I have the most amazing and liberating job, I have sex with men for money" ...

Yeah, but is that because they are ashamed or because of the social stigma from other people? As long as there are black people who think that prostitutes and escorts can be raped because of the job they have, I don't expect even the prouders of them to inform the world of their occupation.

I don't know how ****ed up things are where you live, but here no one thinks it's ok to rape strippers, prostitutes, or pornstars.

Thankfully we don't have much black folks. If by here you meant Texas then I could agree, but in the US you sure as hell have a large bunch of those animals on the loose.

And here I thought I wouldn't read anything more idiotic than feminist tripe in this thread.

[Orogun01]

I agree, but who exactly is suggesting that  helping women is considered misogynistic? I have missed that part of the conversation ?

Anita did, she has claimed Super Mario as being misogynistic because of their attitude towards women and has gone on Tweeter saying that "ICO is one of the most irritatingly sexist games she has ever played"

http://i.imgur.com/Gf21S.png