one of the only "features" so to say that sex has in a brothel or elsewhere... is to get some nasty deseases and or be relaxed and get some more regeneration points. Thats the only thing i can imagine where you can make use of sex in terms of gameplay. Otherwise it´s just yes ok... nice ride now be gone...

 

I used deseases in a nwn mod this way and it was a 85 % chance that you might notice it some days later somewhere already right into adventuring!

Sexual violence and assault cold be a topic or theme in the game which would justify the explicit sexual content  mention.  This would be a really interesting and bold way to go to be honest.  Maybe in some longer sidequest in course of the game or so. 

When I read this I thought they can explore stuff you don't see put in entertainment media like rape and incest. Game of thrones type stuff. Like Baldurs gate what if Korgan was secretly working for Irenicus and revealed he raped Imeon, who does the player side with? Korgan who can unlock secrets of your god powers or your whiny half sister who bitches and moans about everything 24/7?

i never talked about rape... i despise people hell like who rape others or spectators (gamers or others) who feel a tingeling when they hear that positively and i dont think it´s a theme a game should promote. No never! Sorry, but rape is for mentaly dead people and it has nothing to do with taste or freedom of creativity. I´m out! When these things are touched i honestly ask myself where is the line that one should not cross... when you can promote rape in a game i can also promote genozid and whatnot all. I think the line where pure perversity has creeped into "creativity" and self expression is already being broken but still there should be some rules of human essence!

Edited June 16, 201411 yr by NWN_babaYaga

 

i never talked about rape... i hate people who rape others and i dont think it´s a theme a game should promote. No never! Sorry, but rape is for mentaly dead people and it has nothing to do with taste or freedom of creativity. I´m out!

No one said you are the one who does this or have a choice to do it. It is more about someone like Jack the ripper or some other organisation or cult who also does this sort of stuff.  Just because you do not like it does not mean it can't be a topic in games. Games ae not all about having fun and people need to understand this. Just like Movies are not about having fun all the time. 

Edited June 16, 201411 yr by Darji

Uh, exactly what sort of sex scenes are you expecting to see in an isometric game

The kind where your supersperm creates a child after 33 days.

 

When I read this I thought they can explore stuff you don't see put in entertainment media like rape and incest. Game of thrones type stuff. Like Baldurs gate what if Korgan was secretly working for Irenicus and revealed he raped Imeon, who does the player side with? Korgan who can unlock secrets of your god powers or your whiny half sister who bitches and moans about everything 24/7?

 

That is an awful story.

Edited June 16, 201411 yr by anameforobsidian

 

I think PE should determine sexual prowess based on stats. Have a high Dex? Then you can pull off certain awkward positions. High Stam? Makes you last long time. High Str? You can handle a fatty. High Might? You make big boom. I cant come up with anything for Int and Wis.

 

Oooooh, maybe they can make it into a minigame!

That is how dungeon master do it in D&D campaign. In terms of performance and if she gets pregnant or not^^

 

we were gonna make a dismissive reply, but 'pon reflection it is likely that there is at least a couple o' dms that has done such.

 

as an aside, Gromnir hates the forgotten realms. the one time we dm'd a "forgotten realms" campaign, we changed things a bit. for instance, elminster were the seeming know-it-all proprietor o' the Prancing Pony-- the best little whore house in waterdeep. The Sage in our campaign were a grossly corpulent eunuch with a feigned drug habit, and waterdeep were a medium-sized village that were making for an ideal starting point for new adventurers. the campaign actual lasted a couple years.

 

in any event, a brothel did figure prominent in a Gromnir campaign, but we did as a joke. yes, we did go low-brow on occasion with the jokes. after all, it were a bit o' revenge on our group as we didn't wanna do forgotten realms. no doubt one can imagine some crude references to the lack of wood in elminster's staff, etc. even so, we sure as heck didn't have d20 tables organized for the traditional business encounters at the Pony.

 

HA! Good Fun!

And now I'm thinking of the "wood for sheep" gag in Knights of the Dinner Table (said during a game of The Settlers of Catan, IIRC)

 

 

I think PE should determine sexual prowess based on stats. Have a high Dex? Then you can pull off certain awkward positions. High Stam? Makes you last long time. High Str? You can handle a fatty. High Might? You make big boom. I cant come up with anything for Int and Wis.

 

Oooooh, maybe they can make it into a minigame!

That is how dungeon master do it in D&D campaign. In terms of performance and if she gets pregnant or not^^

 

we were gonna make a dismissive reply, but 'pon reflection it is likely that there is at least a couple o' dms that has done such.

 

as an aside, Gromnir hates the forgotten realms. the one time we dm'd a "forgotten realms" campaign, we changed things a bit. for instance, elminster were the seeming know-it-all proprietor o' the Prancing Pony-- the best little whore house in waterdeep. The Sage in our campaign were a grossly corpulent eunuch with a feigned drug habit, and waterdeep were a medium-sized village that were making for an ideal starting point for new adventurers. the campaign actual lasted a couple years.

 

in any event, a brothel did figure prominent in a Gromnir campaign, but we did as a joke. yes, we did go low-brow on occasion with the jokes. after all, it were a bit o' revenge on our group as we didn't wanna do forgotten realms. no doubt one can imagine some crude references to the lack of wood in elminster's staff, etc. even so, we sure as heck didn't have d20 tables organized for the traditional business encounters at the Pony.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

The most prominent I have seen is from a show called Rollplay which airs  normally weekly on Twitch with 3-6K people watching it each week.  t is really great D&D and every time someone tries to have sex  he has first roll a charisma check for success and if success  I think 2 Con checks for performance and fertility.^^

 

Otherwise this show is fantastic and if you have time go watch it on YouTube just search for rollplay^^

 

 

i never talked about rape... i hate people who rape others and i dont think it´s a theme a game should promote. No never! Sorry, but rape is for mentaly dead people and it has nothing to do with taste or freedom of creativity. I´m out!

No one said you are the one who does this or have a choice to do it. It is more about someone like Jack the ripper or some other organisation or cult who also does this sort of stuff.  Just because you do not like it does not mean it can't be a topic in games. Games ae not all about having fun and people need to understand this. Just like Movies are not about having fun all the time. 

 

you dont understand ... what i said was that if developers start to dig into raping others in their games but on the other hand tell us something about politicaly correct BS it all goes down like this. There are sick perverts working on something and they tell you its uncool to "exclude" these type of persons because they are a minority (homo romances etc.) and all that nonsense. So in the end where do we stop promoting these kind of things that are very real. There is a difference in a RPG where you slaughter on mass and RAPE others. If you dont get that you have to visit your doctor!

 

Adn rape was never a topic in gaming since a few mentaly retarded "guys" thought it is "ok" to get the message out....

Edited June 16, 201411 yr by NWN_babaYaga

One has to wonder, though, will the devs be really pushing the envelope in this regard, or settle for the safer (and perhaps for them as well more comfortable) path of acknowledging sexuality, but stopping short of calling things by their real names or providing graphic depictions?

Honestly, I don't think that the topic of sexuality(or racism) push the envelop anymore, especially in political correct AAA titles, more like the most expected, commonly overused and thus gag reflexes inducing topics, thus all the usual rage those topics encore and IMO the reason why we can't have related topic covered a mature way.

 

I don't think the Witcher and mature should be mentioned in the same sentence.

I don't know why the witcher keep being brought up in this fashion on sex related topics (though I suspect that it is a long the line of this ), as far as I seen no one suggested that Witcher approached to topic of sex\romance\.. in a mature way (and if we are honest neither is any other IE game, with PoE going the same way, since the developers statement that they will be skipping any romantic overtures to the plot\companions) only that they didn't censored out sex and tried to approach in a thematic appropriate way.

 

Because bottom line, in contest between M-mature content vs not too serious, little shocking or sometime immature sexually "explicit" content, the later wins for me every time. As long as it is not overused, the little chuckle or roll eyes at the "kids" worth it over bland alternative, even if anyone believes that they are too old for that s***, let the kids their fun

Edited June 16, 201411 yr by Mor

 

 

 

i never talked about rape... i hate people who rape others and i dont think it´s a theme a game should promote. No never! Sorry, but rape is for mentaly dead people and it has nothing to do with taste or freedom of creativity. I´m out!

No one said you are the one who does this or have a choice to do it. It is more about someone like Jack the ripper or some other organisation or cult who also does this sort of stuff.  Just because you do not like it does not mean it can't be a topic in games. Games ae not all about having fun and people need to understand this. Just like Movies are not about having fun all the time. 

 

you dont understand ... what i said was that if developers start to dig into raping others in their games but on the other hand tell us something about politicaly correct BS it all goes down like this. There are sick perverts working on something and they tell you its uncool to "exclude" these type of persons because they are a minority (homo romances etc.) and all that nonsense. So in the end where do we stop promoting these kind of things that are very real. There is a difference in a RPG where you slaughter on mass and RAPE others. If you dont get that you have to visit your doctor!

 

Adn rape was never a topic in gaming since a few mentaly retarded "guys" thought it is "ok" to get the message out....

 

To mature, media needs  needs constantly  to be controversial and needs to break these taboos.  Almost every classic piece of literature does this. Be it when it was released or even today.  Rape, Incest murder in strange ways, pedophilia and so on.  To give you an example. What if the victim or victims were men?  This would be highly controversial and very interesting to explore in the end.

 

Will they do it. I doubt it but it would be really interesting to explore these taboos.  And more respect and power to Obsidian. As for the "political correct bull****" One does not exclude the other.  It maybe would be if it was comical and bioware like acted out. But if its well written and well presented it would be a way to actually get more reception and people would talk about it.   Same with Racism.  Political correctness does not mean these topic should not be explored or integrated. 

Edited June 16, 201411 yr by Darji

to mature you need to understand how live is and what is fantasy and what should stay out of sight and where is porn just sick and where it is "mature". Once you have developed some integrity in your live trough experience you have a balanced view on what is sick and perverse and what not. If your dreamstate that is based on reality TV and fictional storys of people you dont know for REAL you have no clue what live is. Experience is what matters and not what the media tells a person! But that is to high for you i know... so be ok with your raping and have fun in your dreamstate kid. You need some rude awakening i tell you!

 

 

 

 

i never talked about rape... i hate people who rape others and i dont think it´s a theme a game should promote. No never! Sorry, but rape is for mentaly dead people and it has nothing to do with taste or freedom of creativity. I´m out!

No one said you are the one who does this or have a choice to do it. It is more about someone like Jack the ripper or some other organisation or cult who also does this sort of stuff.  Just because you do not like it does not mean it can't be a topic in games. Games ae not all about having fun and people need to understand this. Just like Movies are not about having fun all the time. 

 

you dont understand ... what i said was that if developers start to dig into raping others in their games but on the other hand tell us something about politicaly correct BS it all goes down like this. There are sick perverts working on something and they tell you its uncool to "exclude" these type of persons because they are a minority (homo romances etc.) and all that nonsense. So in the end where do we stop promoting these kind of things that are very real. There is a difference in a RPG where you slaughter on mass and RAPE others. If you dont get that you have to visit your doctor!

 

Adn rape was never a topic in gaming since a few mentaly retarded "guys" thought it is "ok" to get the message out....

 

To mature, media needs  needs constantly  to be controversial and needs to break these taboos.  Almost every classic piece of literature does this. Be it when it was released or even today.  Rape, Incest murder in strange ways, pedophilia and so on.  To give you an example. What if the victim or victims were men?  This would be highly controversial and very interesting to explore in the end.

 

Will they do it. I doubt it but it would be really interesting to explore these taboos.  And more respect and power to Obsidian. As for the "political correct bull****" One does not exclude the other.  It maybe would be if it was comical and bioware like acted out. But if its well written and well presented it would be a way to actually get more reception and people would talk about it.   Same with Racism.  Political correctness does not mean these topic should not be explored or integrated. 

 

 

am extreme disagreeing. the great preponderance o' classic literature does not deal with breaking of taboo.  am not even gonna bother arguing other than to observe that this perspective is just plain wrong. lit will frequent make folks uncomfortable or get people to looks at an issue from a new perspective, but taboo is far less common than you would suggest.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited June 16, 201411 yr by Gromnir

to mature you need to understand how live is and what is fantasy and what should stay out of sight and where is porn just sick and where it is "mature". Once you have developed some integrity in your live trough experience you have a balanced view on what is sick and perverse and what not. If your dreamstate that is based on reality TV and fictional storys of people you dont know for REAL you have no clue what live is. Experience is what matters and not what the media tells a person! But that is to high for you i know... so be ok with your raping and have fun in your dreamstate kid. You need some rude awakening i tell you!

So you want to ignore issues that are real in this world just because they are uncomfortable for you? No one is saying to make it sensational but make it uncomfortable do it that people actually will think about maybe even start a discussion about it. Media is a powerful instrument to get people attention to very heavy issues that also happen to in real life.

 

And that you know one of my friends was sexually assaulted by his father as a child. t is nothing to brag about it and it is nothing to have fun about. But making it a taboo is the absolute wrong way to handle such things. Even people in therapy are encouraged to talk about their experience rather than choke it down and act like nothing has happened.  

 

am extreme disagreeing. the great preponderance o' classic literature does not deal with taboo.  am not even gonna bother arguing other than to observe that this perspective is just plain wrong. lit will frequent make folks uncomfortable or get people to looks at an issue from a new perspective, but taboo is far less common than you would suggest.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I live in Germany and every classic literature we have read back in school and even outside has topics and theme of  orgies, cults ,  sexual violence, murder, pedophilia, racism, schizophrenia, religion, Satan, and so on.  Every time we talk about these authors we end up in such theme and topics.  Maybe I should have stated that before. I do not consider something like Harry potter as classic. I was talking about the before 1900 literature  for example. 

Edited June 16, 201411 yr by Darji

am not sure you know what is "taboo." and surely you misunderstand what is literature that is breaking or challenging taboo. for every example you provide, we can provide a dozen that don't challenge taboo notions. lit that suggests that slavery is bad is Not breaking or challenging taboo. sexual violence in a book is Not taboo. offend the Gods and get sent on egotrip is Not an example o' challenging taboo, but is reinforcing.  literature that suggests that man is inherently bad 'cause he does taboo stuff is also not breaking or challenging taboo. 

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps am thinking you misapprehend challenge and break of taboo, but even still, most literature challenges preconceptions... is not same as challenging taboo.

Edited June 16, 201411 yr by Gromnir

am not sure you know what is "taboo." and surely you misunderstand what is literature that is breaking or challenging taboo. for every example you provide, we can provide a dozen that don't challenge taboo notions. lit that suggests that slavery is bad is Not breaking or challenging taboo. sexual violence in a book is Not taboo. offend the Gods and get sent on egotrip is Not an example o' challenging taboo, but is reinforcing.  literature that suggests that man is inherently bad 'cause he does taboo stuff is also not breaking or challenging taboo. 

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps am thinking you misapprehend challenge and break of taboo, but even still, most literature challenges preconceptions... is not same as challenging taboo.

You always have to think about when these books were first released and written. They broke tons of taboos and were highly controversial back in their time. If they handle topics like pedophilia they would be even today still controversial depending how and what its written in these books.  These books became classics because of the break of morals and standards their time.  Many of them also highly political controversial as well. They seems harmless now but they certainly were not back then. 

It may be fine to discuss topics such as rape and pedophilia in literature or literature classes but this board is meant to be somewhat more age appropriate than that (PoE will be rated for age-appropriateness by whoever rates games, but this board is not rated). We try not to enforce that too much but this thread is walking a very fine line as it is so I would prefer it if we could move to a somewhat less dark and controversial topic than an in-depth discussion on sexual violence in media, because I'm afraid we will probably have to close this thread if that doesn't happen.

It may be fine to discuss topics such as rape and pedophilia in literature or literature classes but this board is meant to be somewhat more age appropriate than that (PoE will be rated for age-appropriateness by whoever rates games, but this board is not rated). We try not to enforce that too much but this thread is walking a very fine line as it is so I would prefer it if we could move to a somewhat less dark and controversial topic than an in-depth discussion on sexual violence in media, because I'm afraid we will probably have to close this thread if that doesn't happen.

 I am sorry for bringing this up. And in the end we will see how all this turns out in the game after all.  so yeah lets end this. If someone  want to discuss more of it I am perfectly fine with writing PMs. 

 

am not sure you know what is "taboo." and surely you misunderstand what is literature that is breaking or challenging taboo. for every example you provide, we can provide a dozen that don't challenge taboo notions. lit that suggests that slavery is bad is Not breaking or challenging taboo. sexual violence in a book is Not taboo. offend the Gods and get sent on egotrip is Not an example o' challenging taboo, but is reinforcing.  literature that suggests that man is inherently bad 'cause he does taboo stuff is also not breaking or challenging taboo. 

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps am thinking you misapprehend challenge and break of taboo, but even still, most literature challenges preconceptions... is not same as challenging taboo.

You always have to think about when these books were first released and written. They broke tons of taboos and were highly controversial back in their time. If they handle topics like pedophilia they would be even today still controversial depending how and what its written in these books.  These books became classics because of the break of morals and standards their time.  Many of them also highly political controversial as well. They seems harmless now but they certainly were not back then. 

 

we very much is considering the time o' release.

 

...

 

am thinking that this is simply a misunderstanding of definition. if Lolita were everyday and ordinary, we wouldn't still be using as an example +50 years after publication. serious, is not worth arguing. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps controversial does not equal taboo. a quickie looksee at broad sociological categories o' folkways, mores, and taboo might help.  

Edited June 16, 201411 yr by Gromnir

To be honest I thought the Witcher handled its subjects quite well, in that it approached them in the manner of a bawdy romp, a somewhat Chaucer-ish manner that was to me rather endearing. Sex, flirting, promiscuity and ribald tales all handled with a sly wink and a good helping of ridicule. Maybe it is because I was brought up on Chaucer's tales, my English heritage or simply that there's a certain joy in lifes more fun pursuits, which I think the Witcher captured quite well rather than the puritanical tittering of say Bioware, which always seemed more schoolboy-ish. Though that impression may just come from the moronic characters of said games.

 

What was nice for me is that this did not clash too much with the masterfully done tragedy of the Witcher, with Geralt longing for a life he cannot have, his guilt at failing young Alvin, and the gut wrenching conclusion of that whole episode. As well as of course the oft discussed theme of monstrousness, as encapsulated by the discussion with Mr Chivay.

 

To be honest I didn't even mind the little masturbatory jokes in each of the sex cards of the first game, the gratuitous felne shots, the lady choking the chicken, the woman fondling the coin purse etcetera, but then again i'm old and of a rather laid back nature. Prone more to laughter than outrage with every passing year.

Edited June 16, 201411 yr by Nonek

I tend to think that sexual themes are more interesting when the author neither avoids the subject nor deliberately seeks it out, but rather it happens as a consequence of the plot thread. Quests designed to titillate the player in a generally non-erotic tale seem juvenile to me.

The Witcher has already established that gamers are mature enough to handle this kind of content, I feel it'd be a missed opportunity for Obsidian to not go all out now that they don't have no answer to anyone but the backers.

 

 

...You honestly believe that's what a significant number of backers were looking for when they ponied up money? Pornography? Response to the inevitable counter: You're the one who derided Dragon Age for implicitly failing to deliver a quality product by merely providing "softcore porn."

 

It'd be a missed opportunity if Obsidian didn't make a porn game with the money of people who didn't pay money for pornography? And you're going to laud The Witcher's sexual content as proof that gamers are "mature"? I realize you don't need a mouth to type, but it must be hard to hit the keys with your foot shoved in there, nevertheless.

Edited June 16, 201411 yr by AGX-17

..I guess the difficulty with handling "adult themes" in a mature way, is that you're likely only ever successful if you can challenge immature people to change their minds along the way.

 

Or, you could of course add "tasteful" sex-scenes that are explicit off-scene, and pretend it's interesting for all kinds of deep, mature, emotionally developed reasons. Or something.

Wow OK, I've not been gone for 10 hours and there's three pages of replies. >_> To address some points raised, then:

Uh, exactly what sort of sex scenes are you expecting to see in an isometric game

Well, written ones, obviously. I'd imagine that's how a lot of the narrative will be handled, which is only good, since aside from certain specific aspects like simultaneity and level of focus, writing has a lot more expressive power than cinematics. On that note...

It'd be a missed opportunity if Obsidian didn't make a porn game with the money of people who didn't pay money for pornography? And you're going to laud The Witcher's sexual content as proof that gamers are "mature"? I realize you don't need a mouth to type, but it must be hard to hit the keys with your foot shoved in there, nevertheless.

 

...You honestly believe that's what a significant number of backers were looking for when they ponied up money? Pornography? Response to the inevitable counter: You're the one who derided Dragon Age for implicitly failing to deliver a quality product by merely providing "softcore porn."

To clarify, I used the term “softcore” to imply the devs were censoring themselves to avoid controversy (and, again, perhaps because they were not themselves comfortable going beyond the point they went) -- at the expense of narrative coherence. If there had been no sex scenes in the game at all, that would've been fine, but since there were, it made very little sense for the characters to remain clothed throughout. Likewise, it takes a certain amount of suspension of disbelief that all the boisterous and -- let's say -- adventurous characters in the game would not happen to even once in the course of the story refer to sexual organs or acts by anything but the mildest of euphemisms.

 

As for Witcher's sexual content, the point I was making was that it was thematically appropriate, and more importantly, became the main focus of the game neither for the gamers nor the media, who failed to reduce into giggling simpletons or raging puritans, respectively. I'd like to think that signals we've moved beyond sex in videogames being a novelty item, and instead just another aspect of a realistic (read: “consistent with lore”, to avoid getting into the whole discussion about realism in a fantasy world) narration. Bridging into...

..I guess the difficulty with handling "adult themes" in a mature way, is that you're likely only ever successful if you can challenge immature people to change their minds along the way.

 

Or, you could of course add "tasteful" sex-scenes that are explicit off-scene, and pretend it's interesting for all kinds of deep, mature, emotionally developed reasons. Or something.

This again honestly kind of rubs me the wrong way, precisely because sex in real life isn't even sometimes tasteful. This is, again, one of the points Witcher gets right: When the game takes place in some seedy port town, one would need quite extensive an explanation for why there would not be some unseemly behaviour about, or why the PC couldn't partake in such. Emphasis on “could”, though: Apart from a few scripted scenes with romantic interests, you can certainly play the Witcher games without engaging into any kind of lewdness. The point of an RPG -- IMHO -- is to allow the player to dictate the course of the story, after all. This ties into another issue which has been raised here, namely that of sexual violence, which I feel compelled to address even at the risk of having the thread locked down:

 

To point, I don't approve of rape. I'm not sure why this would even need to be stated, as I don't approve of murder, either, but no one will accuse me of pandering to wannabe serial killers if I suggest that yes, perhaps there should be some depictions of violence -- with blood and all, as opposed to the “softcore” variety -- and the player character might even conceivably kill someone! The player murdering innocent people heinously is basic fodder of cRPGs: The choice should be there, both for those who wish to tell a dark story with a villain instead of a hero, and because there is no merit in choosing good without the possibility of choosing evil. Even tangentially bringing in sex will cause the discussion to grind to halt, however. Topically, George R. R. Martin has opinionated on the double standards around this issue, which provides me with my final bridge:

Just because they're able to not shy away from it doesn't mean there will be a lot of it, which is good because Game of Thrones is freaking ridiculous with it's sexposition scenes.

I tend to agree; the sex scenes are often pointless and tacky. I don't think it's really a fair comparison, though, as GoT is a static narrative, whereas videogames -- and RPGs in particular -- are an interactive one. You can't reasonably choose to skip sexually explicit content in a book or a TV show, but you can (or certainly should be able to) do so in a game. I can't really stress this point enough: What I'm advocating is not turning the game into pornography, but rather that the devs would be honest to their chosen setting -- which I am fairly certain is not devoid of sex -- and not pussyfoot around topics for the fear of making people uncomfortable.

 

The point about most videogame writers not having what it takes to depict sex in a way that wouldn't just come off as embarrassing is a valid one. However, this is mostly due to the fact that most videogame writers honestly just aren't very good writers, period. I would not have backed this game if I thought it was going to be some teenage escape fantasy; I backed it because it was pitched by who I consider the best writers in the industry, with a solid track record of creating genuinely insightful and mature stories. I find it dubious they'd falter now simply because of the inclusion of naughty bits.

 

Edit: And before anyone says it, yeah, I figure it's too late to be pushing for any great-big changes in the narrative approach to PoE. It's an interesting enough topic in and of itself, though. >_>

Edited June 17, 201411 yr by Sad Panda