Sarex Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 I'm bad at piracy. Back in the 90s I was a dumb kid who spent about $400 on an CD writer thinking it'd save me a ton of money in the long run, but ended up making copies of ....nothing. Possibly the worst $400 I've spent on computer stuff ever. At least I didn't fall into the trap of buying an Iomega Zip drive though. Thanks for the laugh, and just fyi it's "backups" not copies. "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
BruceVC Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 I really hate how everyone here feels some pressure to specify that THEY DON'T PIRATE GAMES. It's your private affairs and it's beyond the point of what's being discussed. Any personal attack against you in this context would be a sign of bad manners, nothing else. So grow a pair and stop apologizing for what you didn't even do. Bweh. Bester I want to clear, I DON'T PIRATE GAMES I know you look to me for your moral compass on many issues so I hope now that I have been completely honest you will join me in condemning the deplorable deed of pirating Helz comments below I agree with 100 %. I have never believed the story that people pirate a game to "test" it and then purchase it afterwards Despite how what I said might have come across, I want to add that I don't defend piracy. Every excuse people make for it rings hollow to me. I don't believe for a second that someone "testing a game out" is actually going to buy it after they've already played it, nor do I buy into the anti-DRM justification. By stealing the game, they're validating the publisher's choice to use DRM in the first place and screwing over the rest of us. "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Hiro Protagonist II Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 I wouldn't mind seeing some numbers with what actually gets pirated these days compared to previous years and decades. 1980s, 1990s, and 2000 onwards. See if there's been any shift in what people are downloading. I'd like to see stats and the trends. eg. Movies, TV Shows, games, comics, books, music, apps, etc. I would've thought there'd be a shift to things like TV shows now and less from music and games. I think it'd be quite interesting to see how things have changed over the last 30+ years.
BruceVC Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 I wouldn't mind seeing some numbers with what actually gets pirated these days compared to previous years and decades. 1980s, 1990s, and 2000 onwards. See if there's been any shift in what people are downloading. I'd like to see stats and the trends. eg. Movies, TV Shows, games, comics, books, music, apps, etc. I would've thought there'd be a shift to things like TV shows now and less from music and games. I think it'd be quite interesting to see how things have changed over the last 30+ years. Hiro whats your opinion on Pirating? Do you care, are you opposed to it or something else? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Malcador Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 I really hate how everyone here feels some pressure to specify that THEY DON'T PIRATE GAMES. It's your private affairs and it's beyond the point of what's being discussed. Any personal attack against you in this context would be a sign of bad manners, nothing else. So grow a pair and stop apologizing for what you didn't even do. Bweh. Well if you don't you'll get some nagging people on your case. As for pirating before buying, I've seen that done and with sequels (so say one pirated ME1 but then went on to buy everything else in the series...sad, really). Usually with the game that was pirated it has been when it's cheap, so maybe that does undercut it some. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
BruceVC Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 I really hate how everyone here feels some pressure to specify that THEY DON'T PIRATE GAMES. It's your private affairs and it's beyond the point of what's being discussed. Any personal attack against you in this context would be a sign of bad manners, nothing else. So grow a pair and stop apologizing for what you didn't even do. Bweh. Well if you don't you'll get some nagging people on your case. As for pirating before buying, I've seen that done and with sequels (so say one pirated ME1 but then went on to buy everything else in the series...sad, really). Usually with the game that was pirated it has been when it's cheap, so maybe that does undercut it some. What people nagging because they think its correct that publishers and developers receive the remuneration for the work they do when they produce a game and people want to play it? Those naggers are unreasonable people hey Malc "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Malcador Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Just the usual sanctimony. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Hiro Protagonist II Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Hiro whats your opinion on Pirating? Do you care, are you opposed to it or something else? I already gave my opinion. I'm ambivalent towards it and it's not something I really think or care about. It's a tired subject that's been discussed and debated since the Atari XL and C64 days. I'm quite apathetic about a lot of things, piracy being one of them and it's how I've always been throughout my life. Not much really affects me mainly due to having an easy life. Piracy doesn't affect me negatively in any direct way that I see. Someone downloads a song, how does that affect me? It doesn't. I don't and never have pirated a PC game though, but then I don't really buy and play a lot of PC games anymore. So buying one or two games a year isn't a problem for me. If you're talking about other things like TV shows, then that's going into other areas out of the scope of this topic and a discussion for another time.
Sarex Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 All I can say is that I can't wait to download a car. "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
Bryy Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 You guys do know you're talking about piracy on a developer's forum, right? The OP was talking about piracy over one of the PoE rewards, no less. It's a sad friggin' day when fundraising rewards start getting pirated. 1
Sarex Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 You guys do know you're talking about piracy on a developer's forum, right? The OP was talking about piracy over one of the PoE rewards, no less. It's a sad friggin' day when fundraising rewards start getting pirated. How is it getting pirated, he is going to pay for it. Get of you high horse before you break your neck. "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
Hiro Protagonist II Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 The OP was talking about piracy over one of the PoE rewards, no less. Actually, it had nothing to do with Pillars of Eternity.
ShadySands Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 It's piracy because he (they) are only buying one copy and distributing multiple Free games updated 3/4/21
Sarex Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) It's piracy because he (they) are only buying one copy and distributing multiple It's essentially like buying a real book and then giving it to your friends to read it, that you can easily copy an ebook so you can all read it at the same time is just semantics. Many times have I gone half and half on a book with a friend I would read it first because I am a speed reader then give it to him after. They could always delete their copies after, if they want to follow the letter of the law. Don't get me started on school books, all of which I photocopied. No one said a word against it, not even the professor on the university who was the author of it. Edited May 30, 2014 by Sarex "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
ShadySands Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Except that it's not semantics because it's the entire point 2 Free games updated 3/4/21
Sarex Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 Because someone somewhere wrote that it was illegal? Have you heard about a thing called the spirit of the law? "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
Amentep Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 It's essentially like buying a real book and then giving it to your friends to read it, that you can easily copy an ebook so you can all read it at the same time is just semantics. Many times have I gone half and half on a book with a friend I would read it first because I am a speed reader then give it to him after. They could always delete their copies after, if they want to follow the letter of the law. Actually its not essentially like that at all. Buying a book there is still only one book. The only way it directly compares is if there is only one eBook; that you download the ebook and then send that ebook to the other person and retain no ebook for yourself. Because, as has been pointed out on the issue isn't really theft (loss of a physical good) but unauthorized copying/distribution/publication of copyrighted works. Don't get me started on school books, all of which I photocopied. No one said a word against it, not even the professor on the university who was the author of it. The definition doesn't change whether you get caught or not (or even whether anyone cares that you did it). Even fair use excerpts will only take you so far. 4 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Hiro Protagonist II Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 If you're going to use analogies like real books, the same also has to apply in the digital realm. The problem I see is I very much doubt the OP and his friends would buy one copy, one person reads it and passes it on to the next person and deletes their copy from their devices once it's passed on. It's too easy to copy it and keep a copy for themselves. That's obviously wrong.
Sarex Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) The only way it directly compares is if there is only one eBook; that you download the ebook and then send that ebook to the other person and retain no ebook for yourself. Oh did you open a can of worms with that one. How does one accomplish what you are saying? At one point in the transfer there need to exist 2 copies of the ebook. Does that mean you broke the law? See what I said above about the letter vs. the spirit of the law. Edited May 30, 2014 by Sarex "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
Amentep Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 The only way it directly compares is if there is only one eBook; that you download the ebook and then send that ebook to the other person and retain no ebook for yourself. Oh did you open a can of worms with that one. How does one accomplish what you are saying? At one point in the transfer there need to exist 2 copies of the ebook. Does that mean you broke the law? See what I said above about the letter vs. the spirit of the law. When the transfer is done, does 2 copies exist or one? If only one you didn't act as an unauthorized publisher, did you? If the transfer is interrupted halfway through does 1.5 copies exist or 1? If only 1 you didn't act as an unauthorized publisher, did you? I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Hurlshort Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 I can't believe your friends are too cheap to drop $5 on a book. That's the price of a coffee at Starbucks. 2
Elerond Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 If you broke EULA in digital products, given that EULA on question is legal in you country, you are considered as pirate in legal sense. Physical copies of piece of work, rule of thumb is that you are considered as a pirate if you make another copy of that work and lend or sell that copy that you have made. But there is always especially with EULA's question what kind of limitations copyright owner should have right put in their EULAs, which is more question about society's view about how owns the pieces of culture than question should something be considered as piracy or not. So to OP's question if ebook's EULA says that you can't make copies or lend your copy of book then you are pirating it, but if EULA don't prohibit you doing so then it is not pirating (in some countries you have legal right to make copies of book and lend of those copies even if EULA prohibit it, at least if book is not copy protected). In second question, lending physical copies of book that you own isn't, in my knowledge, considered thing that someone can prohibited do by copyright owner in anywhere in world. 1
BruceVC Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 I can't believe your friends are too cheap to drop $5 on a book. That's the price of a coffee at Starbucks. This is why I love many of your comments, most of us tend to get bogged down in complicated and convoluted arguments and you come with a much more simpler and relevant comment that basically gets the same message across with much less fuss. Well played sir 1 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Malcador Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 I can't believe your friends are too cheap to drop $5 on a book. That's the price of a coffee at Starbucks. Well, it's still more than a feasible alternative, thinking about it. 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Gromnir Posted May 30, 2014 Posted May 30, 2014 these threads is baffling to us. the excuses people come up with for piracy is always entertaining, though frequent ... curious. paint piracy as a quixotic endeavour or a necessary evil to combat corporate greed. is funny. funny and wrong, but still funny. there is also an undeniable geographic aspect to information piracy that Gromnir has never genuine explored. am aware that eastern europe and south-east asia is hotbeds o' such piracy, but we never bothered to discover why that is. oh sure, we has seen a bunch o' crackpot internet theories, but we never did any serious research for our self. HA! Good Fun! 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)
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