Group formation

[Arden]

Ruins of Myth Drannor had a button to lock group formation.

Will tere be some thing like that?

[Arden]

I see age wisdom had a post on this in 2012. since then the wiki has more info.

Defenses are determined by character attributes and class and are further modified by level, equipment, spells, abilities and talents.

fighters:

Increases melee defenses but decreases melee attack rate and allows the fighter to engage two additional targets in melee engagement and increases the range at which they engage targets.

[edit] Notes

• This is a particularly useful mode to enter when a fighter is blocking a route of attack to protect other party members.
• All characters who are not moving and have melee weapons equipped project a small Melee Engagement radius around them. If an opponent enters that radius, they are instantly Engaged and stop moving, attempting to move any significant distance away from the attacker will provoke a Disengagement Attack
• the activation of limited-use tactical abilities, such as spells. Positioning your party and coordinating attacks and abilities is one of the keys to success.
• and yet there is no clue if the party has a formation

[Osvir]

I think PoE will have group formations akin to how the Infinity Engine games did it:


See that bottom bar with the dots? Those are formations that you can "lock in" and switch around if you want to.

[rjshae]

Hopefully it will be more advanced than that limited selections; something akin to the formation editor used in ToEE perhaps.

[Enigmatick]

I think PoE will have group formations akin to how the Infinity Engine games did it:

 

See that bottom bar with the dots? Those are formations that you can "lock in" and switch around if you want to.

That's quite the portrait for that third character.

[Osvir]

Yes, Sharp_One, because I was clearly saying "Let's copy+paste what BG did!".

Just saying that "The IE games had formations, see picture, so PoE might have formations". rjshae is onto something, it's a long time since the IE games came out. Lots of stuff has advanced since then.

[Sad Panda]

We will with all due likelihood see default party formations akin to the old IE games -- I see absolutely no reason why they wouldn't include at least this much. I think what OP is asking, though, is will we able to create custom formations by positioning the characters by hand and then locking that formation in place. The teaser gameplay trailer IMO suggests we will at least to a degree be able to do this, as we see the party moving two very neat formations, the other of which is a bit too uncommon to be a default one -- though this might admittedly be just the result of the party not being full and there as such being empty spots in the formation. I'm personally rooting for the system Temple of Elemental Evil had, in which you could freely arrange your party's formation within a limited-size grid.

[Arden]

custom formations by positioning the characters by hand and then locking that formation in place is what I'm getting at. the Melee Engagement radius makes thiseven more important. Yes they will have some form of grouping and I will get the game any way they do, but I could not find any info on it yet.

Ruins of Myth Drannor had it down as well as Temple of Elemental Evil. this will only enhance their newsystem.

[Lephys]

At the very least, "stand thusly" formations would be great. It would, however, be pretty splendid if the formation system allowed for relative formations, rather than exact ones. If you're in a triangle, and you're going down a narrow corridor, instead of repeatedly trying to get in exactly the same spots they were in (thus adding to any pathfinding issues), the "size" of the formation could simply be compressed while in that corridor. Likewise, if you're out in an open area, and some... I dunno, crazy plant-creatures attack you with explosive spores that spread some status effect in a cloud, instead of having to just move everyone around by hand JUST to get them not-as-close-together so that your whole party doesn't get hit by a cloud at the same time, you could use some sort of "Scatter" command to simply have them spread out, while maintaining the same general formation.

 

*shrug*

 

Obviously something even remotely like that could be tricky/time-consuming to program. But, just something beyond "everyone pose like you were in this snapshot" formations would be pretty great, to whatever degree it can be done.

[Kjaamor]

Formations are a nice idea, but in my experience of the IE games (and ToEE) it basically comes down to one person on point, another covering the rear, and then a mess of people in between.

 

That was, and is, absolutely fine though. For those true moments where formation is used in a fight, you're dealing with very subtle (and, crucially, flexible) custom formations. For everything else, there's point and cover.

 

My biggest gripe with formations is that the party "talker" is often required to be at the head of the combat formation, despite seldom being the best candidate for that role. If we're using individual dialogue checks, can we please ensure that the person who takes the check is someone we select, rather than just being stood two feet in front of the next person?

[Sad Panda]

My biggest gripe with formations is that the party "talker" is often required to be at the head of the combat formation, despite seldom being the best candidate for that role. If we're using individual dialogue checks, can we please ensure that the person who takes the check is someone we select, rather than just being stood two feet in front of the next person?

I think we're already past the "party leader does the talking" approach, which people have hated since BG. It made some sense in IWD (and ToEE) where you created the whole party from scrath (and was even then fairly annoying, as NPCs would initiate dialogue with whichever party member happened to be closest to them, and that's then who you were stuck with), but much less so when all the companions have established, distinct personalities the dialogue should by all regards reflect. Storm of Zehir featured a very neat mechanic that allowed you to shift between different characters in your party inside the dialogue, but this only worked because all your characters were essentially interchangeable adventures without any backstory other than what you yourself gave them.

 

The most likely scenario to me is that of Planescape: Torment, with the PC doing all the talking and the companions just occasionally chiming in. I expect that the choices the player make are first and foremost the choices of the Watcher, in which case it makes very little sense for anyone else in the party to be speaking for them, even if they are just no-name companions recruited at the Adventurer's Hall.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Sad Panda

[Kjaamor]

I agree, but I don't think there is any harm in once again reminding the developers of this.

 

On a related note, can the flag for party members chime in be related to whether or not they are in the party? It sometimes appears on my current BG2 playthrough that they chime in based upon distance to the npc, which whilst in a sense realistic, can mean some fiddly pathfinding for what may or may not have any outcome.

[Mor]

Will tere be some thing like that?

Yes. http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Party#Formations

 

Hopefully it will be more advanced than that limited selections; something akin to the formation editor used in ToEE perhaps.

iirc JS said that they took their inspiration from it.

[SKull]

Oh God, please no!

 

BG formations (or any infinity engine ones) where crap they ONLY worked when the chcaracters didn't move or if you click a few pixels only at a time.

During movement every character moved how they wanted, how fast they wanted and they didn't kept the formation. Add to it the crapfest that was pathfinding and you have a mess not a formation.

 

 

Partly true, but some things about the formations were very useful as well. Being able to turn the party around quickly to get fighters etc on the front line was done very well in the infinity games. If I remember correctly you could also adjust the spacing of each formation too, so you had a lot more variation than the few basic formation indicates. Even though this sort of stuff had been developed in RTS games originally, from the first ones like Dune and C&C on, BG was to my knowledge the first game to adapt the concept in a CRPG, and it helped revolutionize the genre as much as the story telling and actual combat did. Previous to BG the best CRPG I am aware of was the Krynn trilogy SSI made, and while they seemed good at the time they are now almost unplayable because so many of the innovations and adaptations made by Black Isle we take for granted are entirely missing.

But like all this stuff it develops slowly, and was much better in the later infinity games than in BG. Obviously it will be implemented in its most refined form in PoE, and not identical to the earliest incarnation in BG.

 

.

Champions of Krynn, 1990. The first CRPG with graphics that wasn`t entirely horrible, and the best one until BG was released:)

 

Dune, 1992. The grand daddy of Starcraft, Command and Conquer and Baldur`s Gate unit selection and formations:)

[Mor]

nm

Edited June 10, 2014 by Mor

[Arden]

Thanks Yes. http://pillarsofeter...arty#Formations.

Also found a image with menu # 2 formation with 8 side slots  and menu #1 hotkey formation.

can't figure how to paste pic yet.

[Arden]

image with menu

[Kjaamor]

Isn't that one of the fan-made suggestions?

[Arden]

per wiki under player character.

The story follows your main character, so your character is always the primary party speaker in conversations and all skill and attribute checks will be done by the main character. However, companions will interject when it makes sense for them to do so(as in the Infinity Engine games)^[2][1]

[J.E. Sawyer]

We have a ToEE-style grid for customizing your party formations.

[Lephys]

Sounds like combat's gonna get a bit... griddy.

[rjshae]

Sounds like combat's gonna get a bit... griddy.

 

It's almost like you're all boxed in...

[Lephys]

It's almost like you're all boxed in...

If I am, then I guess I'll have to... square off against my foes.

 

(... okay, I've met my pun quota for the day. They're great for morale, but I don't want to derail the thread, haha.)

[Arden]

thank you js for answering this.