Israel vs Palestine

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

They happily sent suicide bombers to intentionally kill children. The majority of Palestinians wildly celebrated those attacks and even made recreated bombing scenes for the population to admire.

 

I want proof.

 

Here you go : http://archive.adl.org/israel/israel_sbarro.html

 

If you don't believe my source, you can google it yourself.

 

They're not jihadists like the aforementioned groups. They are fighting an occupation force using terrorist methods.

They're Muslim Brotherhood, the mother of all jihadists. They consider the existence of Israel to be occupation. Similarly Boko Haram and ISIS are fighting to achieve Muslim domination over all others. Edited August 3, 2014 by Wrath of Dagon

[Gorgon]

Unconditional surrender mattered because it meant no negotiations with the Axis of any kind. The same stance taken against Napoleon. Stalin was worried Germany would give up enough to ensure peace on the western front. 

 

 

The invasion of China was what made the Japanese position completely untenable, not the bombs, at least not to Japanese leadership, the full scale of the bombs were not apparent right away. They served two purposes, ensuring a Japanese surrender with no ground campaign in Japan, and a message to Stalin that the US was ready to use it.

was it necessary in the sense that there would have been no surrender without the bombs, probably not. Starvation would have done the job just as effectively. Considerations for the lives of Japanese civilians was pretty far down the line.

[Zoraptor]

Lets widen our perspective a bit fellas: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/07/islamic-state-fighting-hamas-priority-before-israel.html

That's a(nother) scrap between Qatar and Saudi Arabia, similar to Egypt and various other places. Saudi backs Sisi/ ISIS- see, they're even palindromic, though I so hope backing ISIS bites them in the arse down the line- and Qatar backs the MB/ Hamas. Iran and Hezbollah were actually irrelevant, after the falling out over Syria Hamas was not getting any support there until the latest attacks happened.

 

But, but, Rostere says all Arab terrorism is Israel's fault.

ISIS aren't terrorists in the classic sense anyway, as they are not trying to attain political change by use of terror, they're a revolutionary army of the Caliphate that eschews politics entirely and sees themselves as equivalent to all the best bits of Khalid ibn Walid, or Baibars and Timur. Then again I hate the term 'terror*' anyway, might as well use 'bad guy' or 'black hat' or 'big meanie poo' for all the meaning it actually has.

[Valsuelm]

Since someone is actually posting ADL links here as if they are a factual and/or relevant news source:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtx1u8Bv5_I

 

Foxman is a world class shyster. The ADL is good for as a study subject in propaganda and racial baiting, and not much else.

[BruceVC]

 

 

No I think you misunderstanding my point, I am not saying that Hamas is using civilians as human shields (they may be, I can't say with certainty) I am saying the loss of Palestinian civilians suits there political objectives  because this increases sympathy and support for there cause from countries around the world

 

 

By that logic, any loss of civilian life is always going to generate sympathy, thus every loss is in the interest of the side loosing civilians. And thus every side with high civilian casualities is just playing the propaganda war.

 

 

 

But you see this is interesting difference between Israel and Hamas. From what I am seeing there is no doubt that the Israelis do care more about a single Jewish life than what Hamas cares about a single Palestinian life, and I'm not suggesting the death of Jewish child is more important than the death of Palestinian child.

 

But take the prisoner swop around Gilad Shalit, they released over 1000 Palestinian prisoners for his safe return. So the Israelis don't use the death of there citizens for political capital. Now end of the day if Hamas really wanted to prevent civilian casualties they wouldn't be firing rockets from within the confines of Gaza, irrespective of all the political grievances surely Hamas would be thinking " if we do this this there is going to be a retaliation and cost in innocent lives"

 

But this doesn't seem to concern them? For them the political objective is more important than the loss of innocent Palestinians? And I have issue with that type of sacrifice mentality

[BruceVC]

 

ISIS aren't terrorists in the classic sense anyway, as they are not trying to attain political change by use of terror, they're a revolutionary army of the Caliphate that eschews politics entirely and sees themselves as equivalent to all the best bits of Khalid ibn Walid, or Baibars and Timur. Then again I hate the term 'terror*' anyway, might as well use 'bad guy' or 'black hat' or 'big meanie poo' for all the meaning it actually has.

 

 

You are nitpicking now and you know it, ISIS is as bad as Boko Haram if not more so because they are a more effective military force. They practice and enforce a completely brutal and anachronistic form of Islam that isn't tolerated anywhere in the world by any recognised government, basically the same as Boko Haram. But I will acknowledge that within ISIS there are different objectives and some aren't as extreme as others, for example the Iraqi tribal Sunnis don't have the same goals as the foreign fighters who have joined ISIS

Edited August 4, 2014 by BruceVC

[Erez]

 

 

I just got back from a month tour in gaza(Tank Fighter)

 

  Proportional response in this situation means sacrificing civilians and soldiers for the sideline viewer half way across the world and have zero clue about the situation. In august 6 1945 the USA ended world war 2, if they allowed it to drag on, Japan would have been devastated and both sides would have lost million more lives. In this conflict proportional response means more suffering to the Israeli and Palestinian people.

 

Bulls****.

Millions of poeple? There's no way to tell.

 

Japan was already close to the breaking point. A simple blockade was all that was necessary - heck, no even that.

If you are defending, then the purpose of the war is to push the enemy out of your territory. Once you cripple the army of the enemy, there is no further need for war. Bombing the nemy to stone age, entering his territory (and taking it away) becasue ti's necessary "to secure peace" is BS.

 

Japan didn't have enough fuel left for even a small fleet. What danger did it presen to the US? None.

The US could have just waited it out. But they didn't.

 

 

 

More on topic and a question for those who think the Israeli response towards the Hamas state is too harsh. Why should Israeli people die just to please the lazy person who didn't bother to learn more about the situation before stating his opinion on the web? I am serious, please, stop trying to kill me.

 

And why should palestinian civilians die in droves for the sake of (maybe) a few Israelis?

 

 

 

in order to break your enemy you have to inflict a heavy damage on them, in order to keep your strength you have to keep wars as short as possibile. 

The usa could not allow to world war 2 to drag any further, the Japanese were resilient and very brave, a blockade could have take a long time, and just leaving would mean the japanese would gather their strength in time.

 

The Palestinians have made their decisions, their deaths is on their hands not the israelis. , no country should apologize for being stronger than its aggressive enemy. Israel did not start this war nor did we want it, but you can bet we will finish it.

This fighting session is coming to an end, if i was in charge and not bibby things would have looked very differently, the world opinion is important. But since most of the people in the world are too lazy to do their homework and like preach from the sideline without any risk we have to look for ourselves and protect ourselves.

Thousands of missiles were fired at Israel, dozens of plans to infiltrate and start a murder spree against civilians were terminated, the threat is real enough but we will continue to fight to protect ourselves despite people who wish we just fell over and died.

[obyknven]

 

 

The Palestinians have made their decisions, their deaths is on their hands not the israelis.

Somewhere  i hear such justifications... yes criminals like use such rhetoric.

 

The crime victims have made their decisions, their deaths is on their hands not the criminals.

 

[Gorgon]

I hope Israel does not retreat entirely into the 'us against the world' stance that has been kinda guiding its self image since the 6 day war and Yom Kippur war. In a sense it's true that it has to look for its own defense, but I'm just not convinced that Hamas poses any kind of real threat for the existence of Israel. 

 

Both sides have stared themselves blind to solutions ensuring that the conflict will last for generations more. 

[Erez]

 

 

 

The Palestinians have made their decisions, their deaths is on their hands not the israelis.

Somewhere  i hear such justifications... yes criminals like use such rhetoric.

 

 

 

 

That's a strawman argument, every action you make in this world has consequences, some more visible and immediate than others.

By not demanding the people of Gaza responsibility for their actions you put them in the same statues of undeveloped children.

This reminds me of the old welfare debate, do we give money to the poor and deprive them of a chance to succeed on their own, or do we help the poor get a job and establish their self worth.

I believe that if people of the world took less pity on the people of Gaza and instead demanded of them to dust off and build a state, they would have abandoned their ways of self pity and terror a long time ago, and instead of a terror state we would have had a great tourism resort with humos and nargilla.

 

 

 

I hope Israel does not retreat entirely into the 'us against the world' stance that has been kinda guiding its self image since the 6 day war and Yom Kippur war. In a sense it's true that it has to look for its own defense, but I'm just not convinced that Hamas poses any kind of real threat for the existence of Israel. 

 

Both sides have stared themselves blind to solutions ensuring that the conflict will last for generations more. 

 

We have no problems with world, but when it comes to the safety of our citizens and keeping our country rockets and terror free, we have to push some criticism to side.

Here in Israel we do not look kindly to people from countries whose war history ethics were a lot bloodier than ours tell us we should sacrifice or endure constant threats in order to save face for the rest of the world.

There are imaginary wars and there are real wars, when under attack, countries all around the world have acted to defend themselves. Unfortunately civilian casualties are part of the reality of war, more so in case where your enemy hides behind its own civilians in order to fuel its propaganda machine.

We do not take joy in killing civilians, sure there may be a few zealots who will, but most Israelis will outright tell you they just want peace, you will hear of no arabs massacredin Israeli streets by a flaming mob of Jews, we just want to live our lives in peace.

 

As to other solutions regarding the conflict and the disputed territories, sure a solution must be found but it is irrelevant to the gaza conflict. Israel retreated from gaza in 2005 and hamas doesn't want to find a peaceful solution, it wants to kill all Jews. Until Hamas change its ways or the people of gaza change their leadership, we will have to keep defending ourself against the hostile state of gaza in the same way countries all around the world have always done,

By Shooting Back

Edited August 4, 2014 by Erez

[Gromnir]

I hope Israel does not retreat entirely into the 'us against the world' stance that has been kinda guiding its self image since the 6 day war and Yom Kippur war. In a sense it's true that it has to look for its own defense, but I'm just not convinced that Hamas poses any kind of real threat for the existence of Israel. 

 

Both sides have stared themselves blind to solutions ensuring that the conflict will last for generations more. 

the world against Israel is a near constant... but this conflict is actual different.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/31/world/middleeast/fighting-political-islam-arab-states-find-themselves-allied-with-israel.html?_r=1

 

is more than a few nations in the middle east that agree with israel that hamas is a threat: egypt, saudi arabia, the united arab emirates, etc.

 

hamas were isolated and were getting weaker. if your organization is predicated on fighting israel and eliminating it from world maps, then you best do your fighting when you is at your strongest.  hamas weren't gonna get stronger. from their pov, they had no choice but to fight now.... and they need keep fighting 'cause they cannot win in any conventional sense. the only measure o' success hamas can hope to achieve is through a advantageous cease-fire agreement. they needed a conflict before they could get a cease-fire-- is axiomatic. well, they got the conflict, but the only leverage they has for generating more favorable cease-fire terms is if the US and local arab nations put pressure on Israel to do so.  given that hamas were at a nadir in popularity before this newest conflict erupted, the only way to gets US and neighboring arab nations to pressure Israel were through media and propaganda. civilian deaths is  the only leverage hamas has.

 

at the start o' the idf operation, we believed that israeli deaths would be a factor in bringing about a cease-fire. am thinking that is no longer a factor. israel is fully committed. this is looking more like the 2006 conflict in south lebanon. israel paid a heavy price when the invaded lebanon. the world media were appalled by civilian casualties back then too. the main difference were that other arab nations condemned Israel in 2006, and this time they is silent. all the bloodshed in 2006 shocked folks living in europe and south america and in the US and canada. *shrug* this same drama has played out multiple times and the main difference this time is that Israel has greater support from its arab neighbors. israel bloodied the hezbollah quite severely in 2006. at the cost o' world condemnation, near 2000 civilian casualties and a considerable amount o' Israeli deaths, israel bought eight years o' hezbollah impotence. 

 

hamas needs enough casualties to broker favorable cease-fire terms and there is no point in keeping resources in reserve when they has no chance o' being resupplied by non-existent friendly neighbors.  hamas has nothing to lose by fighting til they get what they want.

 

israel, likewise, has little to lose. the US is their only dependable ally and while the state department might condemn civilian casualties, a few thousand dead arabs in gaza won't permanently harm US-Israeli relations any more than has the last half-dozen times this same kinda conflict has arisen in the former british mandate.  also, much o' the arab world is staying silent as israel squeezes hamas. so until the idf finds a majority o' tunnels and destroys/exhausts most hamas weapon stockpiles, israel will keep fighting. israel, like hamas, has nothing to lose by fighting til they get what they want.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Malcador]

Wonder what the US gets out of this relationship with Israel, anyway. Well, other than votes.

[Volourn]

An ally in the ME.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Wonder what the US gets out of this relationship with Israel, anyway. Well, other than votes.

$20, a Snickers bar, and the occasional sexual favor.

[Gromnir]

Wonder what the US gets out of this relationship with Israel, anyway. Well, other than votes.

israel is an ally in the middle east with a stable and democratic government. that alone is worth much. israel government will be here tomorrow, and the day after. we can't even say the same about egyypt. US can also use influence with israel as a bargaining chip with other middle-eastern nations. no doubt the US military benefits from sharing info with a nation that is in a constant state o' war... bloodless (for USA) lessons learned from israel experiences with iron dome, fighting in gaza (densely populated urban settings,)  fighting terrorist cells, etc.  and yeah, votes matter. the arab nations in the middle east has, more than once, attempted to exterminate the Israel. to turn backs on Israel now would be striking most Americans as unjust and disloyal.

 

btw, we saw a bunch o' headlines last week saying that Israel admitted that hamas weren't to blame for the killing o' the three Israeli teens that sorta started this whole recent chain o' events. o'course, when we read such stories we learned that it were a "lone hamas cell" that were responsible for the murders. we saw literal a dozen headlines claiming israeli admission o' hamas innocence being refuted by their own stories. don't the clowns in the media know what a terrorist cell is? ability to act independent o' a central command structure is kinda what makes a terrorist cell a terrorist Cell. duh. is so much better that israel has to deal with such nonsense instead o' the US... as terrible as that sounds.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Erez]

Wonder what the US gets out of this relationship with Israel, anyway. Well, other than votes.

 

http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/friends-with-benefits-why-the-u.s.-israeli-alliance-is-good-for-america

First thing out of google.

I didnt get a chance to read it. But there are many benefits to the usa, i will try to post them later.

Right now i need to test out divinity original sin, gamers claim, its a real gem.

[Malcador]

An ally in the ME.

 

Will have to see how much they've helped the US in that region that much in the past.  Certainly seem to be more uppity towards the US of late, but I suppose they know they can get away with murder with the US. 

 

Heh, was a bit hesitant to search that as I can foresee a lot of shill results more than anything.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

An ally in the ME.

 

This is actually the truth, there is no Jewish conspiracy. No "Jews controlling the USA", despite what conspiracy theorists will tell you. Yes of course there are Jewish lobbyists who have some influence in the USA like all lobbyist groups but the main reason the West seems to align itself with Israel is really around ideological reasons and the fact that Israel is an ally to the USA and other countries when it comes to the Middle East. Remember there was a time where the Middle East was relatively united and decided to use oil production to influence a certain political agenda. Israel is the bulwark to this type of Middle Eastern alliance, and since oil still controls economies the West has to protect its allies

[Gorgon]

I dunno. Israel was kept out of both gulf wars because there was a real fear that the US would lose all it's other ME allies if she was invited to the party. Sadam even launched SCUD missiles hoping that Israel would take the bait. That was a long time ago but it would not be an underestimation to say that Israel is culturally completely isolated in the ME. She has tried for a strategic relationship with Turkey, but Islamism (I don't mean militant Islam as such) is in the ascendancy there. Remember the PM and his ludicrous twitter and FB crackdown.

[BruceVC]

I dunno. Israel was kept out of both gulf wars because there was a real fear that the US would lose all it's other ME allies if she was invited to the party. Sadam even launched SCUD missiles hoping that Israel would take the bait. That was a long time ago but it would not be an underestimation to say that Israel is culturally completely isolated in the ME. She has tried for a strategic relationship with Turkey, but Islamism (I don't mean militant Islam as such) is in the ascendancy there. Remember the PM and his ludicrous twitter and FB crackdown.

 

Well actually you are reinforcing my point unintentionally, but I also didn't explain properly. Israel is isolated as far as the Middle East  countries are concerned. But part of this support of Israel  from the West is exactly because its not an Islamic country. There is an interesting part of history, that most people aren't aware of, that occurred in the 1970's where basically OPEC decided to create an oil embargo against most Western countries, this decision by OPEC could have had the  most serious economic consequences for Western countries that they have ever faced because back then there was no real alternative to oil. This link provides a good summary of the dynamics of the situation

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

[Malcador]

Heh, I wouldn't say that is an unkown event. Seems it worked out well for everyone, Israel wasn't affected much by it, and people were encouraged to look at alternatives. Hm, wonder what would have happened if the IDF lost the '72 war

[Zoraptor]

She has tried for a strategic relationship with Turkey, but Islamism (I don't mean militant Islam as such) is in the ascendancy there. Remember the PM and his ludicrous twitter and FB crackdown.

 

Meh, I don't like Erdogan much at all but he certainly wasn't to blame for the frigid relationship with Israel. Israel started the whole thing with a truly moronic stunt and then outright murdered (note the number of times 'shot in the back of the head' turns up; you can also read the 66 page UN report on the matter if you want) a number of Turkish nationals.

[Valsuelm]

Heh, I wouldn't say that is an unkown event. Seems it worked out well for everyone, Israel wasn't affected much by it, and people were encouraged to look at alternatives. Hm, wonder what would have happened if the IDF lost the '72 war

 

In Bruce's world, and in the world of many who believe just about all that is spouted by the mainstream media and 'respectable' in their minds governments, the 1970s is ancient obscure huh? Not even history, but 'huh?'. History, real history isn't a factor in their minds, only the BS spouted by the world is flat cult. Real history and reality destroys their paradigm and would shattered their brainwashed world, so it must be ignored or derided in some manner, ie: 'crazy conspiracy theory'. [Tip: If ever you use the word 'conspiracy' as a 'bad word', you're brainwashed and have been rendered incapable of critical thinking, try and snap out of it.]

 

Sure, their priests might point to some history and ignore some others in their convincing of the masses such as Bruce of X, but real history is never a part of the World is Flat cult leaders' rhetoric. Real history and knowledge points to an invasion of Palestine by a bunch of foreigners under the manta of 'Zionism', who have hijacked (in the minds of many) what it means to be Jewish, actually having the audacity to assert that they speak for all Jews everywhere. Nevermind that a very sizable amount of the Jewish people in this world do not support Israel and are appalled by the evil perpetrated there. There are even many Israelis at this point that are appalled by the evil perpetrated by those that run things there. Real history shows that those invaders ultimately were able to convince and coerce other foreign entities to support them in their invasion.

 

What's happening in Gaza is murder folks. Plain and simple murder. The goal is the eradication of the Palestinian peoples. If you think it is otherwise, you don't know your history, nor do you know the motives of those who run Israel, or how they view people who are not the 'chosen' in the eyes of their God. [Tip: They have more respect for cows.]

 

Really, if the oil embargo is the 1970s is somehow new news to you, if you don't know what the Balfour declaration is, if you don't know what a 'goyim' is, if you don't know who Theodore Herzl was, if you don't know the history behind Zionism going back to the 19th century coupled with the history of the Palestine region in general over that time, you have no idea what's going on in Israel or Gaza. But I'll sum it up for you: Murder, theft, and ultimately local genocide.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Valsuelm

[Gromnir]

 

I dunno. Israel was kept out of both gulf wars because there was a real fear that the US would lose all it's other ME allies if she was invited to the party. Sadam even launched SCUD missiles hoping that Israel would take the bait. That was a long time ago but it would not be an underestimation to say that Israel is culturally completely isolated in the ME. She has tried for a strategic relationship with Turkey, but Islamism (I don't mean militant Islam as such) is in the ascendancy there. Remember the PM and his ludicrous twitter and FB crackdown.

 

Well actually you are reinforcing my point unintentionally, but I also didn't explain properly. Israel is isolated as far as the Middle East  countries are concerned. But part of this support of Israel  from the West is exactly because its not an Islamic country. There is an interesting part of history, that most people aren't aware of, that occurred in the 1970's where basically OPEC decided to create an oil embargo against most Western countries, this decision by OPEC could have had the  most serious economic consequences for Western countries that they have ever faced because back then there was no real alternative to oil. This link provides a good summary of the dynamics of the situation

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

 

the oil embargo ended up hurting the arab nations far more than the US.  how many middle-eastern nations have made the transition from resource exporter to a manufacturing economy much less to a service economy?  none. zip. zero. middle-eastern oil is a vital resource (perhaps less vital today than in 1973) but am thinking its strategic value is misunderstood. this ain't pandora, and oil ain't unobtanium. the blue monkeys didn't need or want Coca-Cola, or computers, or medical technology. the arab states ain't so lucky.

 

israel is a constant in the middle-east. from a cynical perspective, all those billions o' dollars arab states wasted on futile attempts to eradicate Israel coulda' been invested in economic infrastructure that woulda' made them less dependent on the west. the endemic tribalism o' the middle-eastern states is an effective limitation on meaningful economic progress, but israel's unique existence has also served very well in keeping the middle-east from focusing on domestic improvements and self-sufficiency. 

 

btw, am not making a value judgment with our observations.

 

"What's happening in Gaza is murder folks. Plain and simple murder. The goal is the eradication of the Palestinian peoples. If you think it is otherwise, you don't know your history, nor do you know the motives of those who run Israel, or how they view people who are not the 'chosen' in the eyes of their God."

 

hogwash. ignoring for a moment the fact there never has been any palestinian people or palestine for that matter, the israelis has no need or desire to eradicate the arabs in gaza. doing so would be far too costly in terms o' resources and israeli blood. heck, am doubting israel even wants to complete destroy hamas, 'cause history in the region reveals that power vacuums is typical filled by more radical and extreme elements. hamas wanted this fight. hamas needed this fight. am not certain why the idf were so willing to oblige, but am guessing that in israel there is a kinda political inertia the builds after enough rockets is launched or tunnel attacks occur. allowing hamas to wither to a state o' complete impotence woulda' seemed to be a less costly strategy. 2013 saw the fewest rocket attacks from gaza (fiftyish) in over a decade, so perhaps the idf were underestimating hamas resources or willingness to go out in a blaze o' glory.

 

we will concede that we don't believe israel has been interested in finding a lasting peaceful solution since yasser arafat gave ehud barak and bill clinton the proverbial middle finger at camp david in 2000 and set of the second intifada.  barak committed political suicide by offering the plo leader a two-state solution that surprised many with how favorable it were to the arabs. the plo took the offer as a sign o' weakness rather than an opportunity.  sadly, every time time the military arm o' hamas violates a ceasefire negotiated by their political leaders, it reinforces the notion that the arabs cannot be trusted. 'course the hamas don't have a genuine military or even a military leader, so is not surprising when some yahoo leaps out o' a tunnel during a ceasefire and blows himself up along with Israeli soldiers.

 

regardless, the cycle o' stupidity is too predictable, but the nonsense about palestinian "eradication" is only funny 'cause it is kinda ironic. the stated goal o' hamas is the eradication o' israel, and for decades the arabs made numerous attempts to eliminate israel from world maps. no, it ain't practical for Israel to be eliminating the arabs in gaza, but is the worst kinda black humor and irony that given hamas' goals, their efforts has been far more successful in creating arab casualties and suffering than they has been in  ending Israel as an autonomous nation.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited August 5, 2014 by Gromnir

[Volourn]

"Will have to see how much they've helped the US in that region that much in the past."

 

A lot.

 

 

"What's happening in Gaza is murder folks. Plain and simple murder. The goal is the eradication of the Palestinian peoples."

 

Then, they're not doing a good job of it then. If theyw anted to wipe out  Palestine they could do it. Also, i don't beleive that's their goal. But, that said, if it was turnabout is fair play since  that is obviously Palestinian's goal as evidenced by their supporting Hamas, right?

 

 

"Real history and knowledge points to an invasion of Palestine"

 

Real history shows the Palestinians as the invaders as theyw ere not the original inhabitants. the original inhabitants were  thrown in the trash.

 

Oh, btw, did you know that your precious pro Palestinian Hamas just murdered a bunch of Palestinians today because they accused them of working with Isreal? No  court date, no rule of law, nothing. No evience - just hamas' word they were 'caught redhanded'. Just cold blooded murder.

 

 

 

"But I'll sum it up for you: Murder, theft, and ultimately local genocide."
 

You just described Hamas. Why do you support Hamas? the murderer of Palestinian children?