Ongoing discussion of Ukraine

[Drowsy Emperor]

Its a military attack chopper with UN designations armed with missiles and an internal gatling gun, currently in use by the pro-Kiev forces in the east. What do you think they're using it for, pray tell?

[BruceVC]

Its a military attack chopper with UN designations armed with missiles and an internal gatling gun, currently in use by the pro-Kiev forces in the east. What do you think they're using it for, pray tell?

 

Well there are many possible explanations. These include

 

• Its not a real UN sponsored helicopter, the Ukrainians have already had several helicopters shot down and they know that this is less likely to happen if the pro-Russian forces see a UN marked helicopter. By attacking any UN associated military resource you would bring immediate condemnation by the UN, this is a conflict where perception is important. The Ukrainian forces could be falsifying the UN markings to avoid having there helicopters destroyed
• The helicopter could be used purly for logistics
• The helicopter could be some sort of preventative measure

 

The reality is I find it very hard to believe that the UN would allow one of its helicopters  to be used in an attacking capacity because of the sensitivity of this conflict and what the Russian reaction would be. Russia sits on the UN security council and there first comment would be " how was this authorised". This would undermine the entire UNSC and is very unlikely

[Zoraptor]

Bro, the UN doesn't have attack helicopters of its own, as with other equipment members supply them (popular with low budget countries as the UN pays for their upkeep etc) as needed. Using UN branded helicopters would be very bad, only putting large red crosses all over your tanks and APCs would be worse for that type of infraction. The Geneva Conventions specifically note it as big P Perfidy, to whit: "(d) The feigning of protected status by the use of signs, or uniforms of the United Nations or of neutral or other States not Parties to the conflict."

 

(Doubt it's deliberate deception, of course, but it's still bad enough)

Edited May 15, 2014 by Zoraptor

[Malcador]

Googling just found

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0P_sv_x4E0

 

Rumour that they just forgot to re-paint the Hind which...is pretty stupid if true.

[Drowsy Emperor]

More likely they're using it as a deceptive measure - less chance of being shot at while sporting UN colors. Alternative theory is that it was maintained regularly unlike the rest of the army. 

 

@Bruce - what Zoraptor said. Its a Ukrainian military chopper intended for UN missions. Its sits in the base along with other Ukrainian hardware and is their property, not the UN's. The way they're using it is unlawful because UN insignia can only be used on UN missions.

 

The United Nations aren't present in this conflict in a peacekeeping role, so naturally I wasn't implying that the real UN had anything to do with this.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Drowsy Emperor

[Hassat Hunter]

 

Isn't that rust on those wrecks.

 

Burning does that to vehicles.

 

Pics are definitely genuine.

 

It doesn't give me any pictures if I click that link?

 

And talks without the East is the most stupid thing I heard of... what talks are there then? Psh...

Edited May 15, 2014 by Hassat Hunter

[sorophx]

there's so much going on... a couple of phone calls were leaked, phone calls between Noginski, Tzarev, Kolomoisky and some unidentified member of the Jewish diaspora. and the things they say... I'll wait for you to hear it in the news before I say any more. but it's pretty ridiculous

[Sarex]

there's so much going on... a couple of phone calls were leaked, phone calls between Noginski, Tzarev, Kolomoisky and some unidentified member of the Jewish diaspora. and the things they say... I'll wait for you to hear it in the news before I say any more. but it's pretty ridiculous

 

Did I understand it right, the Jews put a bounty Tzarovs head?

[obyknven]

Heavy fights around Slavjansk today.

http://www.voicesevas.ru/news/yugo-vostok/voina-na-yugo-vostoke-onlain-16-05-2014-.html

 

Junta sent paramilitary death squads to Donetsk also. Big civil war is coming, and foolish West is fully responsible for this. They don't want see interests of East-Ukrainian people, just reject reality of conflict and do nothing for stop of own barking pets from Kievan junta. 

http://youtu.be/UuYOAzHW4UE

[sorophx]

not "the Jews". one particular person passed on information through sinagogues that he will pay 1kk USD for Tzarev's head. and rumors have it somebody already burned down Tzarev's neighbors' house in an attempt to assassinate him. 

[Sarex]

not "the Jews". one particular person passed on information through sinagogues that he will pay 1kk USD for Tzarev's head. and rumors have it somebody already burned down Tzarev's neighbors' house in an attempt to assassinate him. 

 

The second part of the conversation made it seem like the synagogues were used for it though, that would make it seem like it was organized by multiple people.

[sorophx]

those conversations also mention the person responsible for all the death in Odessa, if it's true... then it's just as everyone suspected: Ukrainian oligarchs simply struggle for power, and innocent people get killed in he process. it's the "wild" 90s all over again

[Hassat Hunter]

Guess which press again reports nothing what-so-ever about anything... :/

Unbiased, eh?

[Zoraptor]

It doesn't give me any pictures if I click that link?

 

Meh, looks like the link expires as it's pics of the last 24 hours. If you click the archive button at top right you can get to previous days' versions though. It ain't particularly interesting, they are just the pictures that were previously posted, from a recognised source.

 

And talks without the East is the most stupid thing I heard of... what talks are there then? Psh...

 

It's basically the same as the "Friends of Syria" meeting that is also being held, more designed to build up public confidence and give the impression of support/ that something is being done than actually resolve anything. Mostly harmless, mostly pointless and they'll probably come out with some sort of roadmap or whatever at the end of it.

[Mor]

Guess which press again reports nothing what-so-ever about anything... :/

Unbiased, eh?

*Sighs*

 

The thing about bias, in many case its about perception, for example most people who are familiar with politics, will claim that during election time media coverage is crazy biased! because according to their POV it is giving too much or not enough focus to various issues inline with their POV. Which is why its important to be able to step back and look at thing in context (especially when propaganda and sensationalized reportage involved)

 

This is not a new concept, just like the usual onslaught of teenage nationalism coming most strongly from countries with high censorship and low freedom of speech discovering the world POV is different.

 

In this case you guys haven't been so excited in a while, i suspect that it has something todo with your previous unsubstantiated claims about western involvement by anything other than vague conspiracy theories. In any case another not new concept is that balance in reportage is about presenting arguments in proportion to the actual evidence for each side, not about equal screen time. Which is why Russian claims are taken with less and less skepticism due considering that all its initial reportage turned into crap, and was nothing but tool destabilize Ukraine toward its own goals.

[obyknven]

 

Add to this ban of celebrating Victory upon Nazism, ban of Left political movements and cancelation of laws against Nazi propaganda,. After this try answer to simply question - what political force can do this and how EU "democrats" can support such force?

Brown future of EU is coming, European elites yet must hide own true nature, but day when they fairly show who they really are is not so far away.

[Tagaziel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine

 

Anyone wanting to catch up, here's a good article. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who buy into Russian propaganda. Then you will immediately decry it as western propaganda.

[Sarex]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine

 

Anyone wanting to catch up, here's a good article. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who buy into Russian propaganda. Then you will immediately decry it as western propaganda.

 

lol

[Malcador]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine

 

Anyone wanting to catch up, here's a good article. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who buy into Russian propaganda. Then you will immediately decry it as western propaganda.

 

Or are a bit suspicious of a Wikipedia article about a hot event.

[Sarex]

Or are a bit suspicious of a Wikipedia article about a hot event.

 

That is just what a brain washed Russian would say!

[Malcador]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/16/us-ukraine-crisis-sanctions-canada-idUSBREA4F02O20140516?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=992637

 

That's Harper for you.

[Tagaziel]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/16/vladimir-putin-crimea-tatars-russian-ukraine

 

Meanwhile, Crimea's prime minister issued a decree forbidding all public demonstrations until 6 June, in an apparent attempt to prevent the annual rally on Sunday commemorating Stalin's deportation of the Tatars in 1944.

 

Sergei Aksyonov said the ban was necessary to avoid "provocations by extremists" and "disruption to the resort season".

Hey Crimea, you're undermining the whole "Russia is peaceful, Ukraine is Nazi" propaganda with your BS.

[obyknven]

Whole night and day battles continues around Slavjansk and Kramatorsk.

http://youtu.be/dSDYgfoN0M4

 

Junta make information blockade around these cities. Two LifeNews journalists are arrested here.

It's not first accident with this media channel, junta arrested ( and forced them to kneeling ) Lifenews journalists two times before.

 

 

 

 

[Walsingham]

For some reason thi smusic rattles through my head whenever I see oby's posts now.

 

 

(skip to 1:00)

Edited May 18, 2014 by Walsingham

[Tagaziel]

Peeking under the folds, I see oby has learned a new word! Good AI, good, now please have a quirk and turn on your sinister controllers.