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I'll say it again, the sorcerer was a very bad call imo. Better it was reserved for monstrous, non-PC races.

 

Just another 3rd edition miscalculation. Golden D&D is Ad&D 2nd .

...which had sorcerers
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AD&D had sorcerers? I was under the impression that the only arcane casters were Mages, Mage multis, and Bards.

 

Anyways, I thought Pathfinder had the best implementation of the sorcerer. They still lag behind Wizards in terms of access to spells, but the bloodline powers are pretty cool.

“By striving to do the impossible, man has always achieved what is possible. Those who have cautiously done no more than they believed possible have never taken a single step forward.” ― Mikhail Bakunin

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To me, the spell system for Wizards in PoE seems much more self-consistent and flexible than it did in D&D. It has the feel of a D&D 3.5e Sorcerer in combination with a Wizardly interchangeable spell set. There's not really a need for separate classes. But if there were, perhaps human Sorcerers are able to use special tattoos to store the fragments of soul energy and channel attacks? That would limit the flexibility, but avoid the problem of carrying special tomes.

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I'll say it again, the sorcerer was a very bad call imo. Better it was reserved for monstrous, non-PC races.

 

Just another 3rd edition miscalculation. Golden D&D is Ad&D 2nd paired with optional rule-books and/or house rules (imo).

 

 

 

And I'm grateful such a silly thing as the sorcerer is not present in PoE.

 

 

I find you reasoning extremely vague.  I don't really see a problem with sorcerers.   It's not like they were overpowered or lore breaking or anything.  And their spell system worked well enough to the point where they created the Spirit Shaman and Favored Soul.

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You don't see tomes in many rpg games. I think they have the potential to be potrayed as being cool. We just need more fantasy games, cartoons and 3d cinematics where you have wizened old coots read stuff from their books and **** bricks on people. 

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To me, the spell system for Wizards in PoE seems much more self-consistent and flexible than it did in D&D. It has the feel of a D&D 3.5e Sorcerer in combination with a Wizardly interchangeable spell set. There's not really a need for separate classes. But if there were, perhaps human Sorcerers are able to use special tattoos to store the fragments of soul energy and channel attacks? That would limit the flexibility, but avoid the problem of carrying special tomes.

 

Replacing the book with something else is just switching the problem around for me. Any sort of "the magic is in the X" object gives me a lame feeling when applied to most magic-using characters I think up.

Edited by Mr Moonlight
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Replacing the book with something else is just switching the problem around for me. Any sort of "the magic is in the X" object gives me a lame feeling when applied to most magic-using characters I think up.

The magic is in not-the-person in almost any magic system ever. All the person ever does is channel/shape it. Who cares if your body holds the magic while you shape it, or anything at all that isn't your body does so? You're still the one doing the spell-weaving.

 

Specifically in PoE, it's not as if there're just fully-formed spells in any given tome, and anyone who isn't a Wizard can just pull a pin on the tome, hurl it at someone, and watch it magic-grenade everyone to death.

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Replacing the book with something else is just switching the problem around for me. Any sort of "the magic is in the X" object gives me a lame feeling when applied to most magic-using characters I think up.

The magic is in not-the-person in almost any magic system ever. All the person ever does is channel/shape it. Who cares if your body holds the magic while you shape it, or anything at all that isn't your body does so? You're still the one doing the spell-weaving.

 

Specifically in PoE, it's not as if there're just fully-formed spells in any given tome, and anyone who isn't a Wizard can just pull a pin on the tome, hurl it at someone, and watch it magic-grenade everyone to death.

 

 

It's just how I feel really.

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The magic is in not-the-person in almost any magic system ever. All the person ever does is channel/shape it. Who cares if your body holds the magic while you shape it, or anything at all that isn't your body does so? You're still the one doing the spell-weaving.

 

Specifically in PoE, it's not as if there're just fully-formed spells in any given tome, and anyone who isn't a Wizard can just pull a pin on the tome, hurl it at someone, and watch it magic-grenade everyone to death.

 

 

No Grenade-Tomes?  That's it, PoE is officially RUINED FOREVER.

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Replacing the book with something else is just switching the problem around for me. Any sort of "the magic is in the X" object gives me a lame feeling when applied to most magic-using characters I think up.

The magic is in not-the-person in almost any magic system ever. All the person ever does is channel/shape it. Who cares if your body holds the magic while you shape it, or anything at all that isn't your body does so? You're still the one doing the spell-weaving.

 

Specifically in PoE, it's not as if there're just fully-formed spells in any given tome, and anyone who isn't a Wizard can just pull a pin on the tome, hurl it at someone, and watch it magic-grenade everyone to death.

 

 

It's just how I feel really.

 

No worries. I'm not trying to get you to feel differently. I'm just making sure you weren't mistakenly feeling that way because you were missing something. It was just "for what it's worth" info.

 

I am sorry, though, that the game's Wizard design contrasts with your preferences. Hopefully it won't hinder your enjoyment of the game too much. :)

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Likely different arch-types/kits of Wizards without needing a Grimoire will appear in the expansion or sequels if it's profitable. Similar to Baldur's Gate to Baldur's Gate 2. From a game balance perspective, I really think the tome is evidence that Josh took a hard look at the weakness of Pathfinder/D&D type rpg systems where wizards have the most versatility. (Limiting spells grimoire's contain, time delay switching them in battle) Really Obsidian has employee's with experience creating games using a venetian ruleset for years. Basically it means you won't have to equip the wizard with a dagger or sling(like in BG/IWD). Likely will have a basic acid arrow or something in there as a base at will spammable attack, the rest are their daily/encounter powers.

 

Really look at this in a different way, would it make sense for a Wizard to basic attack with a sling? Or have a grimoire with a inscribed spell formula they solve ad hoc with their focus and fire at an enemy. The use of implements was one of the cooler additions of 4E D&D, really I agree not all wizards should need them but this is a first iteration of their game engine+ruleset.

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I had similar feelings towards magic system in POE as the OP, at least mage wise. I supposed grimoire is just more sophisticated tool than what we have seen earlier (which it is) generally blueprints, guide for making wiz more sophisticated in shaping those energies...unlike druid or other more intuitive, feel it, zen meditate, whatever...shape it and cast it. I was bit dissapointed that without the spellbook he is pretty much powerless by what we know so far. No matter if he can tome by heart so to speak. All magical energies are stored within the book. Wiz just sort of tunes himself /his soul with the book, so others cant use it at the moment he is using it. That is kind of dissapointing me. It is like cypher having to go with similiar device so he would use his psionic abilities or druid had to use just some magical wooden staff to access forces of nature, without it he is just another treehugger and sort of hippie.

 

Whn it comes to the realm og magical, evrything is possible and devs are making this world. Imo it just doesnt feel right somehow, I am trying and I guess I have to play it to pass valid critiq, just lorewise it annoys me hehe. I will play it and might be wrong but It acually came to point I almost got dissaponted that I funded the game. I felt as fi got carried away maybe, had my own idea than what it really is. Yeah it is shallow, vain and it is not about the single class, but the overall story, the universe and bla bla bla. Yeah yeah, but I dont feel it as I used too. Anyway, it doesnt have to be that way, but probably will, like that silly explanation tech vs magi in Arcanum, God how I despised that and I do to this day. 

magic021.jpg

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^ That's just how we're made, as Humans, Tauron. :)

 

It's why some people dislike fantasy but love almost the exact same thing in sci-fi form, and vice versa. Stuff like that.

 

We're all just... randomly-generated? Haha. Anywho, I honestly hope that it's not bad enough for anyone that they can't enjoy the game. If it is, it'll just be sad-sauce. I'd hate for something to just turn out to be so ferociously contrary to someone's preferences that they can't even enjoy a game they helped fund.

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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To me, knowledge is power. I see it as understanding how magic and the universe works can make your magic affect the universe much more profoundly than just chucking elemental shards, flames, whatever like a kid chucking rocks. It's like the difference between a skilled warrior who's studied and practiced complex combat techniques, versus a big hulk with a club roaring "ME CRUSH YOU! CRUSH YOU TO GOO!"

 

So no, I don't have a problem with tomes, spellbooks, scrolls, or other things like that.

Edited by Faerunner

"Not I, though. Not I," said the hanging dwarf.

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