Bottomless omnipresent stash in Eternity?

[Bryy]

Pillars of Eternity opens up with the main character witnessing a supernatural event that thrusts you into the plot. Maybe the supernatural event is the creation of a portal to some strange plane of item storage?

 

(Except no, because that would be terrible. Abstracted game mechanics 4 life.)

The new Dungeons of Dredmor update/expack actually gives you a pocket universe to store and retrieve things from.

[Sensuki]

I'll wager that one of the first mods available is an inventory anywhere mod

[Osvir]

 

@Helz: This is pretty much what I said: "I have an idea! Maybe this could work? Oh, wait... it doesn't get rid of the problem". Sorry, the whole "but wow"-thing bothers me, it reeks of ignorance.

 

These are thoughts/ideas/analyzing for a harder difficulty tier. Expert Mode or beyond that. In a previous post I stated that I don't mind an unlimited stash at all, but I would like to see it being handled differently on a harder difficulty.. or have options to make it harder on a harder difficulty.

 

Why?

 

An unlimited stash is a benefit, it makes it easier to accumulate riches. And with riches you get better gear, items and general stuff. Bribe your way through difficult encounters and so on. There is no real catch with having an unlimited stash from a gameplay perspective. You don't have to run back and forth, you can hoard everything you find without any problems and keep it for yourself or do whatever you want with it.

 

However, an unlimited stash does make everything easier for you. Which means there is potential to make a hard difficulty even harder by making the stash limited instead.

 

Unlimited = Makes life easier

Limited = Makes life harder

 

Makes sense?

 

I want a limited stash not because I want to go back-and-forth, but because I want a harder experience on the hardest difficulty.

There is a difference between difficult and tedious. I would compare walking back and forth to pumping opponents HP on higher difficulties in some games. It doesn't increase difficulty it increases time I spend killing mobs. And spending more time on the same task is not difficult it's tedious.

But would you risk going back and forth if you pick Expert Mode, Ironman, Permanent Death? I mean, if you would pick those options you'd know the enemies would be difficult and one bad random encounter could mean "Game over". Would you risk it?

 

Personally, I'd try to trek forward and pick up what I need rather than picking up everything (in a "limited stash" hypothetical scenario).

 

What makes a "limited stash" more difficult isn't exactly the "limited stash" per say, but it is the factors within the nature of Expert Mode/Hardcore. With a limited stash you'd either go back-and-forth several times and probably face way more difficult encounters (because it is Expert Mode) than the one who conserves their inventory and stash in a more strategical and tactical manner of what they find on the way.

 

Scenario 1: Forward

- Limited Stash, I choose to not go back-and-forth but instead pick up what I feel is critical to the path ahead. I get 10 encounters. Due to the fact that I can't pick everything up to sell later and accumulate some form of wealth my gear and general set-up is going to be lower than if I did. Thus, progression becomes more difficult.

 

Scenario 2: Back-and-forth

- Limited Stash, I choose to go back-and-forth everytime my stash and inventory is full. Because I want to minmax that wealth yo! I get 100 encounters. 

 

Both of these examples are considering a higher difficulty. Now, to the question: Would I survive in "Scenario 2"? Maybe? If I play super careful maybe my entire party survives as well, but I believe that there'd be consequences where I lose a party member or two, if not "Game Over".

 

The point I am trying to make is that it won't (hopefully) be a breeze to travel around the world on Expert Mode, and that's why a limited stash (on Expert Mode) would make the game more difficult no matter how you look at it:

 

Back-and-forth = Means more traveling the world means more random Expert encounters means more risk of "Game Over".

Forward only = Means less crap to sell means less wealth means lesser gear means harder encounters means more risk of "Game Over".

Edited April 6, 2014 by Osvir

[Tuckey]

Going back to how xcom did it.

 

- We have a fortress/base in our castle where our loot can go. I'm just going to imagine that I'm instructing my page to haul my loot back to the castle every-time I use the limitless stash. Would it make a difference to people's immersion if the stash was a person you interacted with and could instruct where to send the stash, what to do with it?

 

ie. Sell all this stuff

     Keep this stuff

 

etc

[Labadal]

A few years ago, I might have said that this bothered me. Now, it suits me fine. I have limited gaming time compared to a few years ago. If I can save some time travelling to and from locations to pick up loot I can't carry with me, in one go, all the better. I guess our views on things like this is something inevitably change as you get less time to play.

[Osvir]

A few years ago, I might have said that this bothered me. Now, it suits me fine. I have limited gaming time compared to a few years ago. If I can save some time travelling to and from locations to pick up loot I can't carry with me, in one go, all the better. I guess our views on things like this is something inevitably change as you get less time to play.

But it doesn't have to be a discussion about "saving time" if you just don't pick up every single item laying on the ground.

 

In an "Infinite Stash" game, from point A to B, it takes 30 minutes. You can loot everything on the way if you want to.

In a "Limited Stash" game, from point A to B, it takes 30 minutes. You can't loot everything on the way, however, you can carry stuff back and forth if you choose to do so. If doing so you would add another 45 minutes to your game time.

 

This is why I am suggesting that a "Limited Stash" would fit better in an Expert Mode (where it justifiable to say "Hey, the world is dangerous, go back-and-forth at your own risk"), a Difficulty Option with a descriptive "Tooltip": "Traveling the world is dangerous in X Mode, choosing this difficulty option means there is a risk if one travels too much". Something insinuating the risk of traveling or random encounters being difficult as is due to the difficulty mode.

 

Maybe even being a sub-difficulty of Permadeath: "Must have Permadeath on". Or maybe not, potential Roleplaying purposes on softcore *shrug*

[Labadal]

Sure. One could also ignore to pick up "worthless" items, just like I did in the IE games or both Nwn/NWN2. If there was a limited stash, it would still not lessen my overall enjoyment of the game.

[Valci]

Wow...i never realized people actually hoarded all the "leather armors" and "short swords" of the world. In BG for instance i only pick up all the common items in the first 30min or so to get a few gold pieces to start me off. After that i only ever pick up "unidentified" items + gems, scrolls and potions (which have their respective containers). I just leave all the rest of the crap on the ground. Whenever im in a town i just sell everything i dont use and thats that. And yet i still end up with tens of thousands of unused gold while never having an inventory space problem. Which is why i find that this "endless inventory feature" is not really needed and the only thing it does is make an unrealistic system even more so. I guess im just weird that way lol.

[Gfted1]

I'll wager that one of the first mods available is an inventory anywhere mod

Hopefully it will be second to the rest anywhere mod.

[Endrosz]

Reminder, because a few people in this thread have the wrong idea about how the stash in Eternity works:

 

Your inventory, which you can access anytime outside combat, is limited. Your quick items, which you can access anytime including combat, is very limited.

 

The unlimited stash is only accessible from "home". While you're away from home, you can put stuff in the stash, but cannot take them out.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'll wager that one of the first mods available is an inventory anywhere mod

1. Nude mod

2. Romance mod

3. Healing potion mod

4. Rest anywhere

5. Inventory anywhere

[Frenzy-kun]

 

I'll wager that one of the first mods available is an inventory anywhere mod

1. Nude mod

2. Romance mod

3. Healing potion mod

4. Rest anywhere

5. Inventory anywhere

 

Wisdom > 18

[Osvir]

Reminder, because a few people in this thread have the wrong idea about how the stash in Eternity works:

 

Your inventory, which you can access anytime outside combat, is limited. Your quick items, which you can access anytime including combat, is very limited.

 

The unlimited stash is only accessible from "home". While you're away from home, you can put stuff in the stash, but cannot take them out.

Yes we know. The point isn't about accessibility of the items, but the nature of it being "unlimited" that I can hoard 1'000 items or more in an unlimited scenario, so that when I do go "home" I can sell all those for more wealth. If the stash instead was limited, I wouldn't be able to sell all those items when I do go "home".

 

It boils down to a question of economy, and depending on how that's handled the unlimitedness might not matter whatsoever on Expert Mode (imo everything should be more expensive on Expert Mode, and sell for way less, regardless if there's a limited option or not).

 

Wow...i never realized people actually hoarded all the "leather armors" and "short swords" of the world. In BG for instance i only pick up all the common items in the first 30min or so to get a few gold pieces to start me off. After that i only ever pick up "unidentified" items + gems, scrolls and potions (which have their respective containers). I just leave all the rest of the crap on the ground. Whenever im in a town i just sell everything i dont use and thats that. And yet i still end up with tens of thousands of unused gold while never having an inventory space problem. Which is why i find that this "endless inventory feature" is not really needed and the only thing it does is make an unrealistic system even more so. I guess im just weird that way lol.

Yes, I did exactly that too. I do the same thing in Skyrim as well. But there's a limit in those games where you simply can't carry more, encumbrance or whatnot. If I can pick up everything, everything, without that encumbrance, without having to go back and forth, I can safely pick up everything and when I do return, I sell all items I found. It becomes very very accessible.

 

There is no penalty whatsoever in the Pillars of Eternity stash system.

 

In Baldur's Gate I would explore an area in like 30 minutes, I would only pick up rare items or items that I found interesting or items I saw gold value in. In Pillars of Eternity I will be able to pick up every single item on the ground, all of those bandit leathers, longswords, axes and all those common items throughout the entire game.

 

And if in Baldur's Gate I earned maybe 1000 gold during those 30 minutes (when I return "home") I would earn maybe 1500-2000 gold during those 30 minutes under the same economic circumstances. 

[Fatback]

What if there are details we don't know about yet. Like crafting materials, or if you need to outfit the soldiers defending your stronghold out of pocket.

[Volourn]

Such a silly concept.  I mean, this is simply indefensible and lacks logic and makes the game less fun. It's a horrible mechanic, adds nothing worthwhile to the game, and hurts the fabled 'immersion'.   This is, by far, one of the top 3 worst things said about the game. Thankfully, there's been some really good thinsg said about the game too. But, THIS? Disgusting.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Volourn

[Gfted1]

 

I'll wager that one of the first mods available is an inventory anywhere mod

1. Nude mod

2. Romance mod

3. Healing potion mod

4. Rest anywhere

5. Inventory anywhere

 

 

Ive got my fingers crossed that one of the people that ponied up for Beta access is also a modder. Maybe a rest anywhere fix can be made before the game is released to the public.

[Hormalakh]

I still think that even an artistic expression of "mounts" with bags in outworld maps would go a long way in "explaining" this concept of "bottomless packs." Different settings? Different mounts perhaps.

[Cubiq]

Reminder, because a few people in this thread have the wrong idea about how the stash in Eternity works:

 

Your inventory, which you can access anytime outside combat, is limited. Your quick items, which you can access anytime including combat, is very limited.

 

The unlimited stash is only accessible from "home". While you're away from home, you can put stuff in the stash, but cannot take them out.

So you can't access your limited inventory during combat?

Is this confirmed?

[Lephys]

Ive got my fingers crossed that one of the people that ponied up for Beta access is also a modder. Maybe a rest anywhere fix can be made before the game is released to the public.

Why not just a "you automatically heal back to full after each combat encounter" mod? Seems to cut out the middle man.

 

And, while I understand that desire, I just think it leads to bad places. I mean, how 'bout just a "teleport anywhere" mod, so we're never confined by some plotline cave collapse or something? Or a "bring all the companions instead of just 6 with you" mod, so we're not constrained by silly limitations.

 

*shrug*. I just think limitations are in for a reason, and some of these sentiments come across as "limitations are bad." Every time a limitation is being discussed, someone just comes in with "Luckily, someone'll mod around this."

[rjshae]

 

I'll wager that one of the first mods available is an inventory anywhere mod

3. Healing potion mod

4. Rest anywhere

5. Inventory anywhere

 

Otherwise known as the "Casual play" mod. I'm pretty sure there will be enhanced difficulty mods as well; there usually are.

[Valci]

its OT i know but since it was mentioned... why would people want rest anywhere or inventory/stash anywhere mods? ... doesnt that detract from the inherent difficulty of the game? ... i mean, these limitations dont seem to be put there for the sake of it. The inventory/stash one i might understand though why it would be needed at all i dont get. Do people actually go about changing gear on their characters for specific encounters? ... i never do as i cant say ive ever needed to.

 

The rest anywhere one is another cookie altogether. From my understanding there will be abilities that are limited in number /rest which adds a layer of difficulty to the game in the sense that you have to know when to use one ability or another so as not to "waste" them only to realize you'd have needed them at a later stage in the same area (not having a rest zone between two encounters for instance). This seems to be a core mechanic to the way PoE treats spell/ability use. Why would you want to circumvent that?

[cornishr]

 

 

I'll wager that one of the first mods available is an inventory anywhere mod

1. Nude mod

2. Romance mod

3. Healing potion mod

4. Rest anywhere

5. Inventory anywhere

 

 

Ive got my fingers crossed that one of the people that ponied up for Beta access is also a modder. Maybe a rest anywhere fix can be made before the game is released to the public.

 

I'm trying to work out if you are being serious or joking??

 

A rest anywhere mod would immediately devalue any sense of challenge or achievement. I'd have zero interest in this game if you could rest anywhere anytime. I wouldn't even bother to  download it for free if that was the case. I presume you are being sarcastic and laughing at people who'd need a silly feature like that? If not...words fail me.

[Gfted1]

 

 

 

I'll wager that one of the first mods available is an inventory anywhere mod

1. Nude mod

2. Romance mod

3. Healing potion mod

4. Rest anywhere

5. Inventory anywhere

 

 

Ive got my fingers crossed that one of the people that ponied up for Beta access is also a modder. Maybe a rest anywhere fix can be made before the game is released to the public.

 

I'm trying to work out if you are being serious or joking??

 

A rest anywhere mod would immediately devalue any sense of challenge or achievement. I'd have zero interest in this game if you could rest anywhere anytime. I wouldn't even bother to  download it for free if that was the case. I presume you are being sarcastic and laughing at people who'd need a silly feature like that? If not...words fail me.

 

Im serious as a heart attack. Hell, Ill toss somebody a crisp new fiver to make the mod and teach me how to map it to the "R" button. The rest mechanic sounds like a major imposition to me and just off the top of my head involves the following other mechanics: to replenish per rest abilities, to replenish per rest spells, to replenish Health, to get un-Maimed, to access the "deep stash" inventory, and who knows what else by the time the game is done. I don't mind resource management, I just don't want to have to trek across the damn map to do it. But with that in mind, a "pop tall after every battle fully healed and with all abilities" mod that doesn't require me to press the "R" button is an even better idea! Also, FAST TRAVEL please, oh god please. By the 50th time Ive schlepped back to a rest spot Im going to be ready to punch kittens.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'm always amazed at how pissy some folks get when someone else plays a game differently than they do.

[Osvir]

Should create some focus group where people can transform that pissy attitude to creative attitude. One way to make people play like you is to create content/mods for people, and no one has to become angry about it