"Follow me!" toggle.

[Karranthain]

When playing IE games, particularly when exploring non-hostile environments, I often wished for a simple "follow me!" toggle. Activating it would make your companions automatically follow in your steps, without the need of selecting everyone and then clicking on a desired destination.

 

Such functionality is enabled by default in Shadowrun Returns, for an instance. However, it can be rather problematic in combat areas, since it cannot be disabled on the fly (you regain full control of your party when fighting starts).

 

I'm not sure if it hasn't been already addressed, but if not - it'd be great if PoE featured this as a toggle accessible directly from the UI.

 

'Tis a small thing, but pretty convenient.

 

[Lephys]

I didn't know there was a feature like that in Shadowrun. Was it useable whenever you're stuck in "combat mode"? 'Cause it got a little annoying (in the original campaign... in Berlin, combat seems to toggle off pretty regularly whenever no foe/threat is nearby) when you had to move everyone, turn-by-turn, just to explore an area with no more enemies left, just because you technically weren't through the whole denoted section that involved combat.

 

I might've missed some functionality, there, heh.

 

Also, I don't know if this is exactly what you meant by "follow in your footsteps," but I've always thought that to have a toggle for your party to quite literally follow in your footsteps would be SUPER useful when simply avoiding traps and other terrain-based hazards.

 

As for just general following or not-following, it's common for these games to have a "select/deselect party" toggle, which moves everyone at the same time (in formation, it would seem, in PoE, like in BG). But, yeah, it'd be pretty nice to actually have them follow behind you, like phone Snake.

[LadyCrimson]

But, yeah, it'd be pretty nice to actually have them follow behind you, like phone Snake.

You could add a "single vertical line" party formation or something, but I have doubts how effective it would be re: AI party members still not triggering traps or such - because of in the way objects/furniture and the shortest-distance-between-points that tend to confuse much of the generalistic AI pathing that I've observed.

[Lephys]

 

But, yeah, it'd be pretty nice to actually have them follow behind you, like phone Snake.

You could add a "single vertical line" party formation or something, but I have doubts how effective it would be re: AI party members still not triggering traps or such - because of in the way objects/furniture and the shortest-distance-between-points that tend to confuse much of the generalistic AI pathing that I've observed.

 

Well, yeah, I admit to a less-than-noobish amount of knowledge about the coding of AI pathing. But, I'd imagine you'd functionally (aka "this probably isn't the proper terminology for such things, but is meant to convey the idea") have waypoints set based on the lead character's path/location. In other words, you're not giving the party members the destination of where everyone's ultimately trying to go. You're giving them destinations of where the lead character was just standing.

 

Again, it might be really complex when it comes down to it. I dunno. But, it wouldn't be like a "set this formation, then just click on the other end of the hallway."

 

Basically, you'd still have to maneuver one character, manually, around traps. But, everyone else would follow the same path, and only move when/after he/she moved. So, instead of having to move them all individually/manually through the Corridor O' Traps, you could move them as a group, but achieve the same effect.

 

*shrug* You'd have to like... path-record or something. I dunno. I intend to learn all this, one day. Baby steps.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Baldur's Gate actually had this. I believe the party formation with the prominent leading arrow with a trail behind it is the one you are looking for. I cannot recall if the other IE games possessed this, but I've used it in Baldur's Gate for sure--particularly in the Planar Prison.

[sesobebo]

+1

 

 

Baldur's Gate actually had this. I believe the party formation with the prominent leading arrow with a trail behind it is the one you are looking for. I cannot recall if the other IE games possessed this, but I've used it in Baldur's Gate for sure--particularly in the Planar Prison.

 

it's not the same. in IE games the party members would assemble like arrowhead at the destination, but the order in which they would get there was left to the individual speeds (characters with haste/boos of speed/monks/barbarians would get there first, regardless of their position in formation).

 

properly following characters should never get in front of the leading one (which would make scouting with a thief, or leading with a tank far les micro-intensive).

[Hassat Hunter]

Why would a sneaking/scouting thief want the whole team on his tail, again?

 

Personally I wouldn't need this in IE-games, and they said they wouldn't have boots of speed like items exactly to prevent issues like above, so that's a non-issue too.

[sesobebo]

Why would a sneaking/scouting thief want the whole team on his tail, again?

so that the horde doesn't trample over the trap he hasn't yet spoted and/or disarmed.

 

 

Personally I wouldn't need this in IE-games, and they said they wouldn't have boots of speed like items exactly to prevent issues like above, so that's a non-issue too.

traffic congestions and other pathing issues can still occur.

 

 

 

it's a convenience feature, as the topic's tag says, but i'd certainly find use for it (i'm replaying BG, and exploring wilderness goes pretty much like this: select tank [2], move tank [LMB], select party [drag LMB], move party [drag RMB]; scroll view; repeat;).

[Valsuelm]

How it was done in the IE games was good.

 

If I understand the OP correctly he wants a 'follow me' mode where all of the other character step exactly where the leader steps. While convenient, I do not think that would be a good addition to the game. It would take away from some gameplay as well as immersion. So you have a very dexterous trap finder who nimbly walks around the traps, so all other characters should be able to as well? Convenient, but conveniency is not always good as has been demonstrated in many a game in recent times.

[sesobebo]

If I understand the OP correctly he wants a 'follow me' mode where all of the other character step exactly where the leader steps.

i think that the "follow in your steps" phrase, that Karranthian used, is more a figure of speech, than an actual feature request.

[Hassat Hunter]

* Well, I can't say I ever send a thief with team, never had that issue (unlike, say, knights of the old republic).

 

* True, but in combat areas that was rare, it usually happened in city or other less combat areas. And more in BG2 than 1, where there was more detail and narrow paths. In BG thus I usually just went along with the whole team, in BG2 the tank *had* the boots of speed, so he always arrived first.

 

I really don't see why the perfect control of IE games needs the feature modern RPG's have just because control is much harder 3D over-the-shoulder...

[sesobebo]

the scouting thief situation is just an illustration. leading a plated fighter with boots of avoidance through the ankheg farm, or petrification protected ranger through basilisk hills would be another two examples of exploration-meets-tactical-positioning.

 

 

and the OP said the idea is from Shadowrun returns, a proper isometric party controlling game. don't know where You've taken the over-the shoulder from.

besides, if it's useful, it doesn't matter where it came from.

Edited March 9, 2014 by sesobebo

[Larkaloke]

I don't see the point of it in general, since once can always select the entire party when you want them to go somewhere, and only select one party member if they're the only person you want moving.

 

A single file formation could come in handy, however. I have no problem with moving people one by one over tricky or trap-laden areas, but it would surely be easier to simply set them to walk in a line.

[Karranthain]

A clarification:

 

"Follow in your footsteps" phrase was indeed a figure of speech, though it could actually be a pretty nifty functionality (when avoiding traps or other hazards, as Lephys mentioned).

 

And, as I've mentioned previously, I'm advocating the inclusion of such toggle (accessible directly from the UI) merely for the sake of convenience. The fine level of control wasn't really needed in non-hostile areas.

 

I really don't see why the perfect control of IE games needs the feature modern RPG's have just because control is much harder 3D over-the-shoulder...

 

It has nothing to do with modern TPP games - case in point Fallout 1&2 or Arcanum (and I've mentioned Shadowrun Returns in the OP).

 

[Valsuelm]

I'm really still not sure what it is you want then that wasn't in the IE games already.

 

The follow the leader button was there. You seem to just be upset that some characters may get there before others due to things like boots of speed? So you want a follow the leader button and a pace normalization button? Wouldn't just taking off the boots solve your problem?

[Lephys]

I don't understand the sentiment that the actual pathing "step where I step" feature is somehow cheating. You have to manually control a given character through a field of traps, regardless of how nimble or light-footed they are. Then, you have to do the same thing with everyone else, individually, because if you move them as a group, they don't CARE what path they're taking, as long as they arrive at the destination in the chosen formation. It doesn't matter if everyone's moving at the same speed. You can't select the whole party, click somewhere, and get them ALL to walk in between those two traps at the front of that hallway.

 

Keep in mind, this is in a situation in which you are moving a party an area with multiple hazards: either traps you couldn't disable, traps you don't feel like disabling, or environmental hazards that aren't even traps.

 

If it's complicated or couldn't be done for whatever reason, then fine. But, for what reason would it possibly be a bad feature? It doesn't affect your ability to detect or otherwise interact with traps. Or your characters' abilities to make saving Reflex throws or something against them. It simply allows the player to move the whole party, manually, in such a way that navigates around visible/detected and avoidable hazards, at one time rather than individually.

[Hassat Hunter]

Can't speak for others, but for me, personally...

 

It would just cheapen traps way too much. They already don't require active tracking, but are passive observations, no need to further nerf the hell out of them. What use are traps if traps are useless?

But I suppose some would like that, since the last "trap thread" I read went the same way, with people tripping over each other to suggest better ways to make traps more worthless in the game, to the point I even posted 'Why add traps to the game at all, if they're designed to be a complete non-issue.

 

I prefer my traps... dangerous. That's what traps are for. If they can't be deactivated, and have to manually walked around, let the player do so. Make them work. Don't give a magical 'ignore traps' button. A shortcut to make the non-disablable trap also trivial for the player to pass.
Convience, yes... but gameharming and moodharming in the process if just talking about traps... IMO.

[Lephys]

It would just cheapen traps way too much. They already don't require active tracking, but are passive observations, no need to further nerf the hell out of them.

I don't understand.

 

A) Last I heard, you couldn't just take a player with -1,000 perception and avoid some traps simply because you, the player, can see the physical pixels comprising the traps; you have to actually detect them with the character, or they're not even visible to the player. And...

 

B) Even if that weren't the case, Phone-Snake movement aids neither the player's ability to see stuff with their own eyes (to know to even avoid it), nor the player's ability to accurately move-command their characters through the trapped area without having them step on the traps.

 

I honestly don't detect even a hint of cheapening, in any form or fashion.

 

I prefer my traps... dangerous. That's what traps are for. If they can't be deactivated, and have to manually walked around, let the player do so. Make them work. Don't give a magical 'ignore traps' button.

... What?! You still have to work at it! But, it's a click-and-move interface, not a 3rd-person action-movement one. Once you're able to navigate one character through a field of narrow safepaths, you automatically possess the capability to simply repeat those same movement "waypoints" for all the other characters.

 

The only thing that would prevent you from doing so, at that point, is not a lack of skill, but a lack of short-term memory. In which case, I personally don't feel that there's any benefit to punishing those without short-term memories.

 

It's not trivializing anything. If you have a hallway with a bunch of moving/rhythmic traps, then, guess what? Having everyone run down it at once, in a single-file line, isn't going to help you much. But, if all the traps are stationary, and it's simply a matter of "only step on this one path," then, you either have the path figured out, or you don't. You're not going to send your lead guy down the safe path, then have difficulty figuring out where to direct party members 2-6. "Oh, I don't know! Maybe I should right-click ATOP The spikey pits this time, instead of on those safe floor tiles I just send the other guy down... IF ONLY I could've sent them all at once, I wouldn't have to deal with this extreme test of skill!"

[sesobebo]

from conveniently opened-to-public SA forums:

 

[match speed to slowest]'s already in and helps a lot with exploration.

~~~

It is the default. BTW it only matches speed for clicks made out of the combat state. If you initiate any movement while the combat state is active, everyone moves at full individual speed.

~~~

The fastest characters characters are extremely fast and you'd eventually be zipping around the maps in no time. I think it negatively impacts exploration when the pace gets accelerated.

~~~

Barbarians get Wild Sprint, wizards can cast Fleet Feet, and there are other goodies that increase movement speed.

 

Increased movement speed only applies while running, and the scouting mode (used for sneaking and searching) is at walking speed.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

surely (I say, with no real knowledge of programming or pathing) it wouldn't be too difficult to set party AI to follow the leader's path exactly, as they would logically do, given that it is the only path known to be free of traps. Programming that wouldn't be making the game too easy, it would be removing frustrating `fake difficulty` by giving the party a modicum of common sense, making it so the challenge is dealing with the traps, not your terminally stupid allies.

[Valci]

agreed TheTeaMustFlow. This is supposed to be an RPG where you're roleplaying  the protagonist. The companions are separate people themselves not extensions of your will. If it were a real life situation if i'd say "step where i step" i'd expect a companion that is not brain-dead to do exactly that... not waltz around smelling the roses. Which is why a "follow in the leaders footsteps" is a logical feature. Once you have maneuvered around the traps with the party leader it's obvious that you can beat the game's challenge in that particular location so why do it 5 more times instead of having this feature? ... it's no longer a challenge, it's a chore.