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ShadySands

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This conflict is getting boring. Someone start thread about Venezuela.

Venezuela cuts ties with Panama, calling country a 'lackey' for the United States

 

Venezuela is not Ukraine

 

Venezuela marks Hugo Chavez's death as protests drag on

Edited by ShadySands
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If Obama had a sense of humour, he would invade to protect American citizens.

Obama needs a sense of humour, if that would get him to do that.

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Venezuela has been facing serious structural economic problems for a while now. The anti-western rhetoric worked to pacify people as as excuse to address the deteriorating economy under Chavez but Maduro just doesn't have the same charisma and isn't as popular. Maduro is trying the old and tired " the protests and instability are caused by Western powers, our country is fine" ..but most Venezuelans don't believe this and want ecomonic and political transformance

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Honestly, he never had a chance, no amount of charisma could measure with the personalty cult Chavez built over the years. (Btw you can draw an easy parallel to Russia in terms of rhetoric and personality cult, when Putin goes down the house will burn... )

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Honestly, he never had a chance, no amount of charisma could measure with the personalty cult Chavez built over the years. (Btw you can draw an easy parallel to Russia in terms of rhetoric and personality cult, when Putin goes down the house will burn... )

Also, while Chavez may not have done a fantastic job in all areas, everything I know of him points at him genuinely caring about his people/country, and wanting to do what he felt was best. New guy not so much.

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Also, while Chavez may not have done a fantastic job in all areas, everything I know of him points at him genuinely caring about his people/country, and wanting to do what he felt was best. New guy not so much.

 

 

So much so that he amassed a net worth of over 1 bn$ by the time of his death.  The Venezuelan presidency must REALLY pay well.  :)

 

The following doesn't paint a very rosy picture of Venezuela.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2014/02/20/cheap-gasoline-why-venezuela-is-doomed-to-collapse/

Edited by kgambit
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So much so that he amassed a net worth of over 1 bn$ by the time of his death.  The Venezuelan presidency must REALLY pay well.  :)

 

Nah, that's one of those internets myths. The original source of the "report":

 

http://www.cjiausa.org/

 

http://es.scribd.com/doc/118772161/Hugo-Chavez%E2%80%99s-Mortality-and-Cuba%E2%80%99s-Deception

 

Don't get me wrong, corruption may be a serious problem in Venezuela and Chávez may not be innocent, but the $1-2bn figures floating around just aren't supported.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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Nah, that's one of those internets myths. The original source of the "report":

 

http://www.cjiausa.org/

 

http://es.scribd.com/doc/118772161/Hugo-Chavez%E2%80%99s-Mortality-and-Cuba%E2%80%99s-Deception

 

Don't get me wrong, corruption may be a serious problem in Venezuela and Chávez may not be innocent, but the $1-2bn figures floating around just aren't supported.

 

 

Fair enough although the 1 bn$ figure came from Forbes, not Jerry Brewer.  That doesn't mean it is correct. 

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Nah, that's one of those internets myths. The original source of the "report":

 

http://www.cjiausa.org/

 

http://es.scribd.com/doc/118772161/Hugo-Chavez%E2%80%99s-Mortality-and-Cuba%E2%80%99s-Deception

 

Don't get me wrong, corruption may be a serious problem in Venezuela and Chávez may not be innocent, but the $1-2bn figures floating around just aren't supported.

 

 

Fair enough although the 1 bn$ figure came from Forbes, not Jerry Brewer.  That doesn't mean it is correct. 

 

 

I tried finding the Forbes note from where that came. Either it doesn't exist, has been taken down, or my Google-fu is weak. *shrug*

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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If Obama had a sense of humour, he would invade to protect American citizens.

 

Has anyone else been concerned that a policy of "They speak our language, they're our citizens" effectively means the UK is obliged to invade most of the planet?

Edited by Walsingham
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"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

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tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

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If Obama had a sense of humour, he would invade to protect American citizens.

 

Has anyone else been concerned that a policy of "They speak our language, they're our citizens" effectively means the UK is obliged to invade most of the planet?

 

 

Hi Walsie :)

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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If Obama had a sense of humour, he would invade to protect American citizens.

Has anyone else been concerned that a policy of "They speak our language, they're our citizens" effectively means the UK is obliged to invade most of the planet?

I know a few more Canadians that would be ok with rejoining the British Empire.

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The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity.

Devastatorsig.jpg

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If Obama had a sense of humour, he would invade to protect American citizens.

Has anyone else been concerned that a policy of "They speak our language, they're our citizens" effectively means the UK is obliged to invade most of the planet?

I know a few more Canadians that would be ok with rejoining the British Empire.

 

You'd have to give up the hockey sticks for cricket bats though.

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If Obama had a sense of humour, he would invade to protect American citizens.

Has anyone else been concerned that a policy of "They speak our language, they're our citizens" effectively means the UK is obliged to invade most of the planet?

I know a few more Canadians that would be ok with rejoining the British Empire.

 

You'd have to give up the hockey sticks for cricket bats though.

 

 

ice hockey with cricket bats would be interesting. Actually, cricket on ice needs to be tried asap.

"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

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If Obama had a sense of humour, he would invade to protect American citizens.

Has anyone else been concerned that a policy of "They speak our language, they're our citizens" effectively means the UK is obliged to invade most of the planet?
I know a few more Canadians that would be ok with rejoining the British Empire.

 

You'd have to give up the hockey sticks for cricket bats though.

 

 

ice hockey with cricket bats would be interesting. Actually, cricket on ice needs to be tried asap.

 

87225.jpg

 

 

In Riga, Latvia, apparently. Head high full toss probably defeats the point of the experiment, however.

Edited by Humanoid

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If Obama had a sense of humour, he would invade to protect American citizens.

Has anyone else been concerned that a policy of "They speak our language, they're our citizens" effectively means the UK is obliged to invade most of the planet?
I know a few more Canadians that would be ok with rejoining the British Empire.

You'd have to give up the hockey sticks for cricket bats though.

Nah, nothing wrong with regional culture. Scots didn't have to give up kilts.

The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity.

Devastatorsig.jpg

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If Obama had a sense of humour, he would invade to protect American citizens.

 

Has anyone else been concerned that a policy of "They speak our language, they're our citizens" effectively means the UK is obliged to invade most of the planet?

 

Well, I don't think that is really what you mean to say.

 

You should formulate it more like "A nation never has an inherent right to rule over people of another nation". The difference is that while you can never claim that all English-speaking areas should be a part of the UK, you have a legitimate reason to intervene when formerly British people or people with British culture in another nation are threatened.

 

Because of how the 19th and 20th centuries turned out, there has not been a lot of problems of this type for the British. But suppose things turned out differently and, say, New Zealand was a part of Japan. Suppose further that opinion polls showed that New Zealanders wanted to secede - and that a clear majority of the population in New Zealand were not Japanese. Naturally, in this situation, Japan has no legitimate right to rule over that territory. The UK would probably be the first country to assert the rights of the New Zealanders because of their (mostly) British heritage, but that action would be based on a general principle - every country should reject imperialism of every form (but in this case it would be natural that the British did so first).

 

But maybe we should leave all this to the Ukraine thread. ;)

"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

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We're retreading ground here, Rosti*:

 

Imperialism is a great 1960s common ground word. But all nations are empires. You think everyone in the UK originally spoke English? Even the English didn't all speak English. There wasn't any such thing. We're all chopped and tossed like a goddamned salad. Even a nation as small and pointless as Belgium can't agree who's who.

 

There's two ways you can handle this. You can say no nation matters, or you can accept that in all probability these are issues that will never meaningfully grace a courthouse. It's bull**** frosting on top, and blood and iron the rest of the way down. Underneath that I have no idea.

 

 

*We should have a wiki of tropes or whatever you call them. A record of the recurring arguments, and the sides taken, articulated using quotes from the main forum threads. Then we could just reference. :lol:

"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

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