Co-operate with Torment: ToN in allowing shared art assets

[AirBreather]

Hello all,

This is cross-posted in the Pillars of Eternity General forum (waiting for approval, I'm still a newb there!) and the TToN Game Ideas user voice section (same subject but with different game title in the subject line).

Background: there were (and ARE still) a lot of awesome mods for the infinity engine games. However, there was some flak about 'illegal' mods - specifically, mods that extracted and used cross-game art assets, such as IWD components inside BG2, without the IWD game being present.

However, now there is a great opportunity: two awesome rpgs being developed at the same time, using the same engine, unconstrained by publishers, and interested in the same sort of background art systems! (Unsure about the model/npc/monster art, though!) This is doubly important as the backgrounds have been mentioned as being the most complex to implement - it will give both sets of game modders an entire new world's set of resources to play with!

What I am proposing is that the developer teams of PoE and TTon co-operate to allow compatibility and full support of art (and model?) assets in between each others games.

Ways this could be implemented:
1) Both games purchased and present on the same system (potentially simplest).
2) One of the games purchased, another 'authorized' or purchased, but not necessarily on the same system.
3) One of the games purchased, combined with an 'art asset modders pack' (that would cost a token fee or be free).
4) The devs create an official shared/combined 'art asset pack' (token fee or free).
5) One or both of the dev teams create a playable (un)official expansion that is merely a run-through (and display zoo? Maybe something rather... Modron-cube-like? :D ) of the others game in order to tie the art assets to one of the games (instead of being shared in general).
6) As #5, but one or both do a full-on expansion! Due to the settings, the TToN inside PoE would be rather strange, but interesting (perhaps a 'What If?!' scenario?), while the reverse could fit as some sort of visitable alternate dimension or something.
7) As any above, but work contracted out (not done in-house).

*Note that any of the above proposals could be Kickstarted for interest, possibly once both games are launched. I do not want the devs time 'taken up doing non-development things' - even having the intent to share and making sure art assets are compatible, game engine wise, would do a lot!

There are a number of considerations around this process. Some that I've thought up include:
1) The devs do NOT want to share art assets (though they are willing to share other things).
2) Conflicts and issues with IP rights, including that of Monte Cooke's Numenera.
3) Nobody thinks this is a good idea?
4) There are some complicated engine issues that would prevent this from being possible (???).
5) Other???

Comments welcome! I truly think this could be a start of some awesome win (PoE devs) - win (TToN devs) - win (gamers) - win (modders) situations!

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I can't see the benefit. T:ToN is a science fiction setting with advanced futuristic technology spanning eons of development by various cultures while P:E is distinctly early human renaissance in terms of technological development. P:E also has explicit magic, whereas T:ToN does not. Aside from perhaps rag clothing for paupers and urchins, I do not imagine any avenues for overlap or art collaboration. Even if it were purely to benefit modders, both projects would have their individual development constrained and limited due to these efforts.

[AirBreather]

I can't see the benefit. T:ToN is a science fiction setting with advanced futuristic technology spanning eons of development by various cultures while P:E is distinctly early human renaissance in terms of technological development. P:E also has explicit magic, whereas T:ToN does not. Aside from perhaps rag clothing for paupers and urchins, I do not imagine any avenues for overlap or art collaboration. Even if it were purely to benefit modders, both projects would have their individual development constrained and limited due to these efforts.

 

Bolded points 1 & 2 = limited imagination much? See below.

 

Well, for equal benefit for both, likely possibilities could include:

- Monsters, of any type.

- 'Natural'/wasteland backgrounds.

- Any sort of small house/building interiors.

 

Just off the top of my head, possible ideas for TToN assets in PoE could be:

- Mechanized interiors as part of a giant knight/siege engine

- 'Bloom' city as adventure where player group gets shrunk down into a strange, exotic plant

- Any generic wasteland (potential link-in to desolate/desert like areas)

- Normal or exotic plant zones (hidden forest areas, magically twisted wastelands, etc)

- Cave/natural underground systems

- Most anything as part of a dream/nightmare/drug haze/illusion/'astral' experience

- Monsters as some sort of invasion, exotic zoo, etc

 

And for PoE assets in TToN:

- Pretty much everything, hand-waved under 'its an alternate dimension!' OooooOOOooo!

 

Bolded point 3 = *sigh* I'm not suggesting some massive effort here (unless they want to do an expansion of sorts, which is unlikely), merely an continuation of the already existing engine collabration. It is already well known that there is not going to be dedicated modders tools to the degree of say NWN - but this can be a useful 'bone' to throw, surely?

 

This is really about the modders - assuming there is ANY sort of file/system/mechanics in place modders WILL extract something... Eventually... from either game to used in the other, unless there are 'special measures' in place to prevent that.  This 'rubber stamps', makes easier and official the process.

 

Let me put it this way - if it only took like FIVE minutes per each map and maybe TEN for each character model... Would it be so painstaking a cost for the potential benefits for fans, gamers, modders in the mid-to-long term?!

 

I know there is a point where the cost outweighs the benefit (such as taking an additional day or week to make a background 'compatible'), but I seriously doubt that such is the case. Of course, any official word on the feasibility of ANY of this is much appreciated.

[PrimeJunta]

Actually, Mr. M., the Numenera setting isn't like that. The general level of technology is pseudo-medieval. The super-advanced tech plays the role of magic – relics with weird properties that some people have learned to use, to an extent. Mechanically Numenera's esoteries, cyphers, and artifacts work just like spells, scrolls/potions, and magic items.

 

In fact, Monte Cook Games is working on another RPG called The Strange, which is a multiverse-type setting based on the same ruleset. One of the sub-settings or 'recursions' in it is Ardeyn, a high-fantasy world. Numenera is fully compatible with it; the Ninth World could be a recursion in it, or the future of the prime world (the Earth).

 

So a PoE/T:ToN crossover mod based on The Strange would not only be feasible, it could even be consistent with canon -- just use the PoE assets to portray a piece of Ardeyn.

Edited March 2, 2014 by PrimeJunta

[Giantevilhead]

Despite the advantages, I think it would constrain one game. I would prefer the two games go in their own directions without having to give consideration to what the other game is doing.

 

At the most, they could do something similar to the Alien reference in Predator 2.

[Valsuelm]

I've backed them both, and I very much look forward to both. However, I would like the art to be unique to each game and for them to go in their own natural directions and not be constrained in any way by the other. That said, I certainly wouldn't begrudge the devs shared resources if that makes sense to them. Art though, is something that can be at the core and feel of a game, so shared art doesn't sound like a good idea to me, anymore than shared music would.

[PrimeJunta]

If they're sharing an engine, base assets like maps, models, animations, sound effects etc. ought to be shareable even without them having to do anything much about it.

[AirBreather]

Hello All,

 

I think I made a big mistake around the poll question. The way it is worded somehow implies that I am suggesting obligating/pushing art assets from one game to another. What I really meant is to simply make them (offically) available via the other game's respective modding tools.

 

Lots of replies here, so I will do snipping!

 

 

*snip*

 

So a PoE/T:ToN crossover mod based on The Strange would not only be feasible, it could even be consistent with canon -- just use the PoE assets to portray a piece of Ardeyn.

 

Thank you! I actually backed The Strange, completely forgot about it too. Cool idea for a mega-mod!

 

 

Despite the advantages, I think it would constrain one game. I would prefer the two games go in their own directions without having to give consideration to what the other game is doing.

 

*snip*

 

See my rewording at the start of this post. This is more about engine/asset support than making either dev team's work dependent on the other... If you get what I'm saying...?

 

 

*snip*

 

However, I would like the art to be unique to each game and for them to go in their own natural directions and not be constrained in any way by the other. That said, I certainly wouldn't begrudge the devs shared resources if that makes sense to them. Art though, is something that can be at the core and feel of a game, so shared art doesn't sound like a good idea to me, anymore than shared music would.

 

Yes to unique art, no to requiring shared art. Again, I think I seriously messed up the wording/implications of the poll.

 

Its more about the whole shared resouces angle.

 

If they're sharing an engine, base assets like maps, models, animations, sound effects etc. ought to be shareable even without them having to do anything much about it.

 

YES! This is 100% what I mean!

 

Good to hear all these replies. For a while I was afraid the topic would just be ignored. Hope you don't mind the quote maze.

 

[Hormalakh]

I thought there was already sharing going on between T;TON and PoE? Aren't they sharing resources? Now just because the barrels and chests in PoE don't look the same as they do in T:TON, that's not a problem - the bigger challenges are the technical challenges that Obsidian has already solved. The artists at InXile have to eat too.

[Pipyui]

They're already sharing tech, procedure, etc, which is great.  I see little reason to share art resources (doors, maybe?  wooden furniture?) without causing weird parallels through both games.  Unless it's some odd secret that both share the same world, with bordering and melding dimensions, I'd prefer that the games keep their art assets separate.

 

As far as modding and moddability are concerned, yeah, they can share all the tech they please.

[AirBreather]

Starting a new thread & poll with much clearer languaging, taking into account as much as possible that has been said here...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I didn't know about The Strange. Now expecting a The Strange CRPG.

[Giantevilhead]

Despite the advantages, I think it would constrain one game. I would prefer the two games go in their own directions without having to give consideration to what the other game is doing.

 

*snip*

 

See my rewording at the start of this post. This is more about engine/asset support than making either dev team's work dependent on the other... If you get what I'm saying...?

 

 

It doesn't matter if they're not dependent on each other. They'll be influencing each other and there will be times when they'd use something from the other game rather than coming up with something new on their own. This would be a bigger problem for Numenera than PoE since it's in an earlier stage of its development. If they were sharing too much then Numenera may be influenced too much by Eternity. Since Numenera is supposed to be a much more exotic and unique setting, it would be better if they come up with as many of their own ideas as possible without being affected too much by other sources. Even sharing simple everyday stuff like simple terrain, plants, furniture, etc., could hurt Numenera since much of the world is supposed to be so alien that even mundane things can have completely different aesthetics.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Giantevilhead

[PrimeJunta]

Some of you people worry about the strangest things.

[LadyCrimson]

Starting a new thread & poll with much clearer languaging, taking into account as much as possible that has been said here...

I'm going to assume this means there's no need for this version anymore, then.

 

The newer version of this thread is here.