Ukraine burns

[BruceVC]

 

 

Russia Today responds to Liz Wahl's resignation

 

I can agree that this may not be the most professional way of doing things. At the same time, however, I am not sure if it is shameless self-promotion or not because I could see an act like this compromising her professionally.

 

On the other hand, sometimes people feel something needs to be said in a particularly shocking way. In any case, she made her bed in this way.

 

I don't know. Back in the day, journalists had a responsibility not only to convey facts, but also as a sort of cultural beacon people could look at for honest assessment and guidance. If she really believes RT is a propaganda outlet for the Kremlin and this is incompatible with her dignity as a journalist, she did the right thing by making her resignation a public matter, in my eyes. Impossible to know whether she has something better lined up (which would diminish the value of the act) or if the real reasons are what she stated, but no reason to assume they are not.

 

I wish this sort of thing happened more often, to be honest.

 

 

 

RT is the most biased and propaganda driven news channel I have ever watched, its a joke actually. I don't blame her.  I think her motives were also driven by sensationalism but that doesn't mean she didn't make the right decision around her personal ethics. I wonder where she will end up?

This wouldn't happen on CNN or BBC because there news presenters don't have such a fundemental disgareement with how the news channels operate and how they present the news

[Valsuelm]

 

RT is the most biased and propaganda driven news channel I have ever watched, its a joke actually. I don't blame her.  I think her motives were also driven by sensationalism but that doesn't mean she didn't make the right decision around her personal ethics. I wonder where she will end up?

This wouldn't happen on CNN or BBC because there news presenters don't have such a fundemental disgareement with how the news channels operate and how they present the news

 

 

While RT can be bias and propagandic it is better than most, and there are certainly more bias and propagandic news channels out there. RT is certainly better than any of the major networks in the U.S. and the BBC in regards to telling it like it is. Do they ignore some of Russia's BS? Of course they do, but they don't ignore the U.S./U.K./et al's BS anywhere near as much as the BBC, CNN, FOX, CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, et al. do. It's a sad sad state of journalistic affairs when one does have to turn to a network like RT to get better coverage of some issues than you'll find on their competition. It says more about the other networks than it does RT that RT has the viewership and guests that it does have. The same could be said of AlJazeera and PressTV.

 

Really, if you're of the mind that the BBC or CNN is less bias than RT I'd say you've bought a bit too much into their propaganda and biased reporting.

 

And it actually has happened at CNN. Lou Dobbs left years ago for similar reasons to what Liz mentions in her resignation, however he did do it a bit more professionally than she did. I'm sure it's happened at BBC as well though I don't follow that news source quite as much. I personally know a number of folks working at the various big networks in the US (emmy winners even) and have been behind the scenes quite a bit, and can tell you that folks resign all the time (and are fired) at major networks and newspapers believe it or not for similar reasons as what Liz stated (in essence their ethics are compromised). It's just relatively rare that it's done on air and by one of the talking heads (usually it's behind the camera folks and producers as they're generally the ones fighting to put the unbiased story on air, not the person actually saying the words (those folks are usually the kind of folks that will say anything)).

 

The news business is a very unethical business overall. The biased story is the norm not the exception, and journalistic integrity isn't common, especially on television news. A good question to always ask oneself about any news story on any of the networks is 'Why am I being shown this?'. The answer to that question is often not the one your average viewer thinks it is.

 

In general news networks hire folks who will say what they want them to say, so the conflict of interest or beliefs in the TV personality isn't common, but it's not rare either.

[BruceVC]

 

 

RT is the most biased and propaganda driven news channel I have ever watched, its a joke actually. I don't blame her.  I think her motives were also driven by sensationalism but that doesn't mean she didn't make the right decision around her personal ethics. I wonder where she will end up?

This wouldn't happen on CNN or BBC because there news presenters don't have such a fundemental disgareement with how the news channels operate and how they present the news

 

 

While RT can be bias and propagandic it is better than most, and there are certainly more bias and propagandic news channels out there. RT is certainly better than any of the major networks in the U.S. and the BBC in regards to telling it like it is. Do they ignore some of Russia's BS? Of course they do, but they don't ignore the U.S./U.K./et al's BS anywhere near as much as the BBC, CNN, FOX, CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, et al. do. It's a sad sad state of journalistic affairs when one does have to turn to a network like RT to get better coverage of some issues than you'll find on their competition. It says more about the other networks than it does RT that RT has the viewership and guests that it does have. The same could be said of AlJazeera and PressTV.

 

Really, if you're of the mind that the BBC or CNN is less bias than RT I'd say you've bought a bit too much into their propaganda and biased reporting.

 

And it actually has happened at CNN. Lou Dobbs left years ago for similar reasons to what Liz mentions in her resignation, however he did do it a bit more professionally than she did. I'm sure it's happened at BBC as well though I don't follow that news source quite as much. I personally know a number of folks working at the various big networks in the US (emmy winners even) and have been behind the scenes quite a bit, and can tell you that folks resign all the time (and are fired) at major networks and newspapers believe it or not for similar reasons as what Liz stated (in essence their ethics are compromised). It's just relatively rare that it's done on air and by one of the talking heads (usually it's behind the camera folks and producers as they're generally the ones fighting to put the unbiased story on air, not the person actually saying the words (those folks are usually the kind of folks that will say anything)).

 

The news business is a very unethical business overall. The biased story is the norm not the exception, and journalistic integrity isn't common, especially on television news. A good question to always ask oneself about any news story on any of the networks is 'Why am I being shown this?'. The answer to that question is often not the one your average viewer thinks it is.

 

In general news networks hire folks who will say what they want them to say, so the conflict of interest or beliefs in the TV personality isn't common, but it's not rare either.

 

 

You've raised some good points but on the topic of CNN, Sky and BBC being biased let me say this

 

I watch these channels primarily and from watching these I know

• Crimea is populated primarily by people who are Russian speaking and have political allegiances to Russia
• Russia considers Crimea to be important due to its historical and geographical significance
• Any sanctions against Russia will hurt the West as well
• There will be no military action against Russia
• The West wants dialog to end the crisis

 

I don't know about you but that presenting of the news seems objective and reasonable to me? Can RT claim the same?

Edited March 6, 2014 by BruceVC

[Sarex]

You've raised some good points but on the topic of CNN, Sky and BBC being biased let me say this

 

I watch these channels primarily and from watching these I know

• Crimea is populated primarily by people who are Russian speaking and have political allegiances to Russia
• Russia considers Crimea to be important due to its historical and geographical significance
• Any sanctions against Russia will hurt the West as well
• There will be no military action against Russia
• The West wants dialog to end the crisis

 

I don't know about you but that presenting of the news seems objective and reasonable to me? Can RT claim the same?

 

The whole situation in Kiev was grossly misreported, none of the executions or tortures were mentioned. Nothing was reported of how organized the protestors were and no news network went in deeper to investigate the situation. They may not be lying, but they  are certainly not telling the truth.

[Chilloutman]

 

You've raised some good points but on the topic of CNN, Sky and BBC being biased let me say this

 

I watch these channels primarily and from watching these I know

• Crimea is populated primarily by people who are Russian speaking and have political allegiances to Russia
• Russia considers Crimea to be important due to its historical and geographical significance
• Any sanctions against Russia will hurt the West as well
• There will be no military action against Russia
• The West wants dialog to end the crisis

I don't know about you but that presenting of the news seems objective and reasonable to me? Can RT claim the same?

 

 

The whole situation in Kiev was grossly misreported, none of the executions or tortures were mentioned. Nothing was reported of how organized the protestors were and no news network went in deeper to investigate the situation. They may not be lying, but they  are certainly not telling the truth.

 

Ehm no, we know that protests where well organised (if they were not how would they succed? and I personaly know about torture and kidnapping from new, but it was stated that these things happening on both sides, that something Putin today doesnt tell to you

[Fighter]

You've raised some good points but on the topic of CNN, Sky and BBC being biased let me say this

 

I watch these channels primarily and from watching these I know

• Crimea is populated primarily by people who are Russian speaking and have political allegiances to Russia
• Russia considers Crimea to be important due to its historical and geographical significance
• Any sanctions against Russia will hurt the West as well
• There will be no military action against Russia
• The West wants dialog to end the crisis

 

I don't know about you but that presenting of the news seems objective and reasonable to me? Can RT claim the same?

 

 

Did they report that the recently appointed head of Ukrainian pres. admin. was caught on camera with a rifle in his car?

 

Did they report on the Right Sector thugs attending government and parliament meetings armed and threatening people? And being fully allowed to do so by new authorities?

 

Did they report on the personalities of Svoboda party and Right Sector and the statements they made? The links to chechens?

 

Are they reporting on the details of the leaked phone call between to EU officials privately suspecting Maidan snipers may not have been government?

Edited March 6, 2014 by Fighter

[Chilloutman]

 

You've raised some good points but on the topic of CNN, Sky and BBC being biased let me say this

 

I watch these channels primarily and from watching these I know

• Crimea is populated primarily by people who are Russian speaking and have political allegiances to Russia
• Russia considers Crimea to be important due to its historical and geographical significance
• Any sanctions against Russia will hurt the West as well
• There will be no military action against Russia
• The West wants dialog to end the crisis

I don't know about you but that presenting of the news seems objective and reasonable to me? Can RT claim the same?

 

 

Did they report that the recently appointed head of Ukrainian pres. admin. was caught on camera with a rifle in his car?

 

Did they report on the Right Sector thugs attending government and parliament meetings armed and threatening people? And being fully allowed to do so by new authorities?

 

Did they report on the personalities of Svoboda party and Right Sector and the statements they made? The links to chechens?

 

Are they reporting on the details of the leaked phone call between to EU officials privately suspecting Maidan snipers may not have been government?

 

I dont follow all news so closely so I cant say if they do or not. However

 

Ukraine is currently under occupation eg. in war so I dont see anything strange about rifels. And yes there is definetely problem with right sector, however I think that if Russia doesnt occupy Ukraine territory there would be much less right sector guys running around (even tho nacionalist is not nacist) and as you can seen in Greece, there was right sector as well but when things stabilised they were removed.

[Fighter]

There is nothing strange with an opposition leader being filmed during protests (before "occupation") with a silenced rifle in his car and then being appointed to high government post?

 

Nothing suspicious about the decisions Ukrainian parliament makes when armed thugs are allowed to threaten them?

[Chilloutman]

I was replying to your post and you didnt mention it happend before occupation, and you mentioned silenced rifle

 

Russian soldiers on Ukraine territory are armed thugs and if you look on news you will read about pro russian 'demonstrants' threatenning OSN watchers

 

 

To be clear I am not saying everything is OK in Ukraine, but whatever happening there doesnt allow Russian invasion until Russia is in danger. All this talking doesnt have any point, Putin just want to add new territory to mother russia.

[Zoraptor]

Considering that they just had amendments to constitution(revoking the extended powers to given to the president in 2004), in the middle of immense internal political and economical challenges, with Russian invasion on their hands and one stop from defaulting[..] So do tell, how is this minor blip on the current immediate issues at hand, which was voted down democratically, due to its association with deposed president corruption and as the cause of current issues which ~divide by language lines abd which could be easily reinstead with a mjorty once thing call down, is your holly grail of fascism?

 

See, your problem is that you are stating your opinion, that it is insignificant. You don't actually have anything to back that opinion up though, beyond assertion. Repeated assertion. Ad nauseum. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion every bit as much as I am. It's just that my opinion is backed by facts- the opposition thought the repeal was important enough to rush through; human nature says that people dislike having their rights to use their native tongue threatened- while yours is backed by being your opinion and you wanting it to be true, and that is literally all.

 

Sheesh, you even reinforce the point. Albeit the russians were not in any way liberating Crimea at the point the legislation was passed, but the rest is accurate and still they found it necessary and essential to repeal this law, which effects minorities who did not vote for them, as a matter of urgency.

 

And the whole thing is designed to make sure that the west gets a majority in the next elections. Their opponents are disorganised and have many of their leaders enjoying the tender (at present at least) protection of the new Ukraine's Right Sector enforcers while they organise snap elections with their favoured parties free to do what they want. There's not the slightest chance of a fair election, just one that gets the 'right' result for the EU and US.

 

Plus, I think you have me confused, I've never said that the new 'government' is fascist, just that Svoboda, a member of it, is. I'd be careful drawing the nazi parallels though, they've handed the Defence Ministry, Prosecutor General and deputy PM positions to Svoboda (please note, US propaganda issuers, your 'facts' don't even stand up to asterisking wikipedia, morans. OK, so most people will just Believe what they're told, but that's just lazy), plus have their militia running around with the freedom of Kiev. Paul von Hinden^H^H^H^ Yatsenyuk better watch his back.

[obyknven]

Mercs and girls. It's looks like soon all national armies has been replaced by such mercs. Profit is too obvious - you hire them, but have no response to their actions. US, France do this long ago (Private military companies) in many countries around the world. US even send own mercs (probably Academi ) to Ukraine now, but obviously they don't show this in Western massmedia (American intervention in Ukraine, so shame).

 

[teknoman2]

crimea is something like a US state... a semi autonomous country that is part of ukraine for convenience. however they can declare themselves as an independed country at any time, and that is going to happen at the end of this month. they will detach their country from the federal bond they have with ukraine, go independent and then join the russian federation

russia does not have to lift a finger for it to happen. 

[Chilloutman]

crimea is something like a US state... a semi autonomous country that is part of ukraine for convenience. however they can declare themselves as an independed country at any time, and that is going to happen at the end of this month. they will detach their country from the federal bond they have with ukraine, go independent and then join the russian federation

russia does not have to lift a finger for it to happen.

So why occupation?

[obyknven]

http://youtu.be/NfKMeEVlMuo

[Aoyagi]

however they can declare themselves as an independed country at any time

 

Where did you hear that? Have you read http://www.president.gov.ua/en/content/chapter03.html ? I suggest that everyone making any claims from this point provides a source verifying their claims.

[obyknven]

Hospital. This woman from Crimea become victim of violence in Kiev. She has been beaten and tortured  by Maidan activists, her backbone  is cracked. Torturers promise to her repeat this with all citizens of Crimea.  Somebody yet wondering why  citizens of Crimea don't want obey to Kiev and ask Russian protection?

http://youtu.be/sriyf8FFI80

[Sarex]

Where did you hear that? Have you read http://www.president.gov.ua/en/content/chapter03.html ? I suggest that everyone making any claims from this point provides a source verifying their claims.

 

Do you think what happened in Kiev was constitutional?

[Fighter]

I was replying to your post and you didnt mention it happend before occupation, and you mentioned silenced rifle

 

Russian soldiers on Ukraine territory are armed thugs and if you look on news you will read about pro russian 'demonstrants' threatenning OSN watchers

 

 

To be clear I am not saying everything is OK in Ukraine, but whatever happening there doesnt allow Russian invasion until Russia is in danger. All this talking doesnt have any point, Putin just want to add new territory to mother russia.

 

I said nothing about Russian invasion. But you are basically acting like the western media. "Lets ignore everything wrong in Ukraine and talk about Putin instead."

[Aoyagi]

Do you think what happened in Kiev was constitutional?

 

Remind me what happened when they tried to demonstrate just by sitting around, occasionally shouting. And by your logic, do you think what Yanukovich acquired all the things in a constitutional way?

[Chilloutman]

 

I was replying to your post and you didnt mention it happend before occupation, and you mentioned silenced rifle

 

Russian soldiers on Ukraine territory are armed thugs and if you look on news you will read about pro russian 'demonstrants' threatenning OSN watchers

 

 

To be clear I am not saying everything is OK in Ukraine, but whatever happening there doesnt allow Russian invasion until Russia is in danger. All this talking doesnt have any point, Putin just want to add new territory to mother russia.

 

I said nothing about Russian invasion. But you are basically acting like the western media. "Lets ignore everything wrong in Ukraine and talk about Putin instead."

 

Really? and what are you saying is lets talk about what is wrong in Ukraine and ignore that we invaded it. Just ridiculous

Edited March 6, 2014 by Chilloutman

[Sarex]

Remind me what happened when they tried to demonstrate just by sitting around, occasionally shouting. And by your logic, do you think what Yanukovich acquired all the things in a constitutional way?

 

He was voted in to his position, so yeah I would say so. He was deposed off unconstitutionally, even when they had the chance to do it the right way. What they did instead was chase him off, dissolve the constitutional court and put their own guys in charge. So don't quote the constitution when it clearly doesn't matter.

[BruceVC]

 

I was replying to your post and you didnt mention it happend before occupation, and you mentioned silenced rifle

 

Russian soldiers on Ukraine territory are armed thugs and if you look on news you will read about pro russian 'demonstrants' threatenning OSN watchers

 

 

To be clear I am not saying everything is OK in Ukraine, but whatever happening there doesnt allow Russian invasion until Russia is in danger. All this talking doesnt have any point, Putin just want to add new territory to mother russia.

 

I said nothing about Russian invasion. But you are basically acting like the western media. "Lets ignore everything wrong in Ukraine and talk about Putin instead."

 

 

I think I already explained that the main Western international News Channels have explained both sides of this crisis. What news channels do you watch? Also its obvious that Russia believes that Crimea is part of Russia, which is blantantly obvious its not. Crimea is part of Ukraine. But to be honest I can see the vote they will have to decide where Crimea should belong being the best way to decide where Crimea should be part of. It will be unfair and a bullying tactic from Russia but we may have to just accept that in the interest of regional peace

[Aoyagi]

 

Remind me what happened when they tried to demonstrate just by sitting around, occasionally shouting. And by your logic, do you think what Yanukovich acquired all the things in a constitutional way?

 

He was voted in to his position, so yeah I would say so. He was deposed off unconstitutionally, even when they had the chance to do it the right way. What they did instead was chase him off, dissolve the constitutional court and put their own guys in charge. So don't quote the constitution when it clearly doesn't matter.

 

 

The fact that he was somehow voted into the position explains how did he legally acquire all of his properties? Wow, that must be some cool law they have there. And they didn't "chase him off", he ran off himself. The arrest warrant was issued the day after.

 

And how does this even matter? I was replying to false claims by someone else and you jump on me with your opinions like some propagandistic goon. No thanks.

[Gorgon]

http://youtu.be/NfKMeEVlMuo

Ukranian self defence forces built them in a garage ?

[Fighter]

I think I already explained that the main Western international News Channels have explained both sides of this crisis.

 

So do they talk about the things I've mentioned?

 

Really? and what are you saying is lets talk about what is wrong in Ukraine and ignore that we invaded it. Just ridiculous

 

 

I have never said this at all.