Experience split between party members?

[Dr. Snuggles]

I did a bit of searching, but couldn't find this question anywhere else.

Currently I am playing Icewind Dale 2 with a single character in the party - and it's a blast. This is only possible, because experience is split evenly between party members. So the fewer characters you have, the more experience each of them will get, making them stronger. This is the essential mechanic that makes it possible to play such a game with an arbitrary number of characters. For me, this is very likely the greatest replay value factor, also, because of it's implications.

[Sir Chaox]

...Because of it's implications.

 

[Sir Chaox]

As for your question, I think this would make sense to do. IIRC, one of their goals was to make the game viable with as many party members as you want to take, including none. So you can take as many companions as you'd like, create your own entire party, or run it solo. Hopefully, this has not changed.

 

(or maybe I am remembering the future, as this was not announced yet... )

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Given that party members left at the stronghold will advance at different rates than the active party, I feel it will be safe to assume that the entire sum of a quests experience will be awared across the party, rather than a set value to each individual in more recent Bioware games.

[Dr. Snuggles]

 

...Because of it's implications.

 

 

 

Well, of course it's because of that. Did I express myself a bit clumsy? English is not my native language.

 

As for your question, I think this would make sense to do. IIRC, one of their goals was to make the game viable with as many party members as you want to take, including none. So you can take as many companions as you'd like, create your own entire party, or run it solo. Hopefully, this has not changed.

 

(or maybe I am remembering the future, as this was not announced yet... )

 

Let's all hope that.

 

Given that party members left at the stronghold will advance at different rates than the active party, I feel it will be safe to assume that the entire sum of a quests experience will be awared across the party, rather than a set value to each individual in more recent Bioware games.

 

This is something I worry about. Because this means, you have to care about the number of party members who are in the stronghold. I don't think, there's a good solution for it. But I guess, it's not a real problem, as long as the player is able to dismiss party members (who may join inevitably based on the plot) entirely.

[Sir Chaox]

 

 

...Because of it's implications.

 

 

 

Well, of course it's because of that. Did I express myself a bit clumsy? English is not my native language.

 

Lol, sorry, I was making reference to an American TV show (It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia). It's not funny at all unless you've seen that episode.

[Sir Chaox]

Given that party members left at the stronghold will advance at different rates than the active party, I feel it will be safe to assume that the entire sum of a quests experience will be awared across the party, rather than a set value to each individual in more recent Bioware games.

 

This is something I worry about. Because this means, you have to care about the number of party members who are in the stronghold. I don't think, there's a good solution for it. But I guess, it's not a real problem, as long as the player is able to dismiss party members (who may join inevitably based on the plot) entirely.

 

 

I agree, though since we have a stronghold, I suppose the leftover party members can be put to use somewhere. Personally, I would like to just let them do their own thing (and not hang around my stronghold) if they aren't directly in my party. I suppose it would be OK to hire them for particular jobs at the stronghold, if it makes sense.

[PIP-Clownboy]

This is only possible, because experience is split evenly between party members. So the fewer characters you have, the more experience each of them will get, making them stronger. This is the essential mechanic

 

How is that an essential mechanic? 

 

I'd rather it be an actual challenge - which is what soloing/small parties should be in a party based RPG. Instead of being a challenge, solo/small parties, BG1/2 in particular, make 95% of the game easier which is illogical. Even worse is when NPCs join at your level so you could easily have a full party near level-capped in chapter 2.

 

Sometimes you want to build an AOE focused group or something and smaller crew would make sense there for combat efficiency but you shouldn't be overcompensated for choosing to fight 10 dudes by yourself.

Edited January 31, 2014 by PIP-Clownboy

[Valorian]

 

This is only possible, because experience is split evenly between party members. So the fewer characters you have, the more experience each of them will get, making them stronger. This is the essential mechanic

 

How is that an essential mechanic? 

 

I'd rather it be an actual challenge - which is what soloing/small parties should be in a party based RPG. Instead of being a challenge, solo/small parties, BG1/2 in particular, make 95% of the game easier which is illogical. Even worse is when NPCs join at your level so you could easily have a full party near level-capped in chapter 2.

 

Sometimes you want to build an AOE focused group or something and smaller crew would make sense there for combat efficiency but you shouldn't be overcompensated for choosing to fight 10 dudes by yourself.

 

 

Among other things, that's because in BG1/2 a level 5 character has ~5x more HP than a level 1 character of the same class.

In PoE that won't be the case. You'll be at a big advantage having, e.g., 480 HP (6 lvl 4 characters) vs 110 HP (1 lvl 8 character). They all need to go down for GAME OVER.

Splitting XP will be essential for soloing.

[Osvir]

I hope that in-party members get split experience. For ease of understanding:

4 party members, 1000 experience, they get 250 exp each.

1 party member, 1000 experience, he/she gets 1000 experience.

Out of party members would need some more macro-management, they'd have to be sent on "missions", training or some sort of (for lack of better word) "Facebook game". Meaning: You'd click a button and they'd be away for X minutes/hours. Some of the Assassin's Creed games has this, and it is in my opinion the best way to handle something like it.

Similarly, I believe Dragon Age: Inquisition is having some sort of similar system, by the name of "Agents". But I think these are out-of-party NPC's though, they aren't members of the adventuring party but they are part of whatever "coalition force" or whatever you are owning/controlling in DA:I. I know the latest 3rd person shooter X-COM, beuracracy (spelling [null]) something~ (not the tactical turn-based one) has it as well.

*shrug* I'm also recalling that out-of-party members might leave the Stronghold if you are not maintaining them because they've got other stuff to do.

Again, how would you get alerted that an out-of-party member returns to the Stronghold after a mission? Maybe you could set up a sort of "schedule" when you are at the Stronghold.

And yet again, how would you handle out-of-party member(s) being away from the Stronghold (leaving it vurnerable but not defenseless) and getting attacked at the same time by X faction? Sounds like it could be a good thing for balance's sake, one might want to min-max and send away their out-of-party members on missions to give them experience to catch up with the adventuring party, but that could work against the Player as well. Not to mention that some missions should be risky (out-of-party members sent on missions could potentially die and you could lose them permanently).

[PIP-Clownboy]

 

 

Splitting XP will be essential for soloing.

 

Why? 

 

Making smart decisions and superior knowledge of the game and its mechanics should be essential for that. 

[Valorian]

 

Splitting XP will be essential for soloing.

 

Why? 

 

Making smart decisions and superior knowledge of the game and its mechanics should be essential for that. 

 

 Because it would be nicer if there's some (marginal) incentive for doing so, other than shooting yourself in the foot and masochism.

 

It doesn't even need to be split into 6 parts. One solution would be to increase XP gain by 15% for each empty party slot, instead of splitting it among party members.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

Splitting XP will be essential for soloing.

 

Why? 

 

Making smart decisions and superior knowledge of the game and its mechanics should be essential for that. 

 

 Because it would be nicer if there's some (marginal) incentive for doing so, other than shooting yourself in the foot and masochism.

 

It doesn't even need to be split into 6 parts. One solution would be to increase XP gain by 15% for each empty party slot, instead of splitting it among party members.

 

Your system could work but I think an easier system would be to do what Baldur's Gate 2 actually did: you still split party xp gained but then some quests awarded each character xp on top of the party xp specific for that character which would not change regardless of how many other characters you had.  For instance, completing the Trademeet quest got you 2000xp for completing the quest that was split between the party and then each character in the party got 1000xp each (not the correct numbers, can't remember the exact quest rewards).  That way the actual xp award doesn't actually change so the quest log can report '1000xp + 2000xp personal' or something if you are told of the reward beforehand nor have to do math to work it out for your character size.

 

EDIT: Plus the devs could do alter the xp reward based on whether they think a smaller party would find the quest particularly more difficult or larger party would find it a cakewalk, by increasing the party xp reward for the quest while reducing the personal xp award.

Edited January 31, 2014 by FlintlockJazz

[Your Best Buddy]

Since we're on ID 2, y'all tell me if I was n00bing it up.

 

Ah played ID 2 and uninstalled it during the area where you've to collect marked stones from different generals and the enemies respawn endlessly until you kill a general of their type. I'd went through several dungeons without a vendor. Every party member was maxed-out in carrying capacity. We sorely needed a merchant to unload our wares and restock on magic bullets.

 

Was there a vendor I missed? An option to trade anywhere in the game without needing an NPC vendor?

 

Given that party members left at the stronghold will advance at different rates than the active party, I feel it will be safe to assume that the entire sum of a quests experience will be awared across the party, rather than a set value to each individual in more recent Bioware games.

Here's our answer.

 

Part of the fun in games like Knights of the Old Republic 2 was swapping-in neglected party members later in the game to experiment with them. If they didn't gain any experience while inactive this wouldn't be an option.

 

Only the guy who lands the killing blow getting combat xp for defeating an enemy can be against the player's will as it doesn't give credit where it's due. Relying on such a mechanic's also limiting as the weakest party member you want to play the background needs to risk himself vs higher-level-gap foes than the other party members faced to get where they are.

[Osvir]

Only the guy who lands the killing blow getting combat xp for defeating an enemy can be against the player's will as it doesn't give credit where it's due. Relying on such a mechanic's also limiting as the weakest party member you want to play the background needs to risk himself vs higher-level-gap foes than the other party members faced to get where they are.

If I am getting this paragraph right.... this is more of a norm in Turn-Based Strategy games (Xenonauts, old XCOM, Disgaea, to name a few at the top of my head). Nothing (I hope) we'll see in PoE. Though, I think it could be very interesting for an IE-esque type of game. It'd require a lot of balancing. But what I wanted to say is that it isn't against the player's will in those systems where it is implemented, but it requires the game to be built in that system from ground up (it has to be part of the ruleset/mechanics and the Player must be aware of it).

 

Nothing we'll see in PoE, but in my opinion it's not a bad mechanic.

[Kjaamor]

Your system could work but I think an easier system would be to do what Baldur's Gate 2 actually did: you still split party xp gained but then some quests awarded each character xp on top of the party xp specific for that character which would not change regardless of how many other characters you had.  For instance, completing the Trademeet quest got you 2000xp for completing the quest that was split between the party and then each character in the party got 1000xp each (not the correct numbers, can't remember the exact quest rewards).  That way the actual xp award doesn't actually change so the quest log can report '1000xp + 2000xp personal' or something if you are told of the reward beforehand nor have to do math to work it out for your character size.

 

EDIT: Plus the devs could do alter the xp reward based on whether they think a smaller party would find the quest particularly more difficult or larger party would find it a cakewalk, by increasing the party xp reward for the quest while reducing the personal xp award.

 

Agreed.

 

Also, just to reinforce the need for a system such as this, IWD2's exp system was actually broken to the point where it was easier with fewer party members. I agree that soloing or small parties should be possible, but if you're encouraging people to use six slots as a default then I feel that should be the easiest option.