Update #70: New Year Project Update

[curryinahurry]

 

 

This may have been asked already and my search missed it, but how are those ruined arches in the ancient Engwithan ruins screen shot managing to float in the air like that when they no longer meet in the middle?  Is there some in-game explanation?

 

I have to say, it looks a bit silly to me and detracts from the scene. 

 

Presumable there's some kind of mortar there holding the bricks together....

 

 

I'm not an architect or engineer, so I invite corrections from anyone that's an actual expert, but I doubt even modern mortar could suspend heavy stones horizontally like that -- certainly not for centuries.  Real arches are held together by compressive forces.

 

I suppose there could be reinforcement rods inside, but then we should see them protruding in places where the stones have been stripped away.  In any event, I think reinforcement rods (rebars) are a fairly recent innovation.

 

 

Actually,  stone structures use metal dowels pegged between  arch-stones.  Re-bar is used in concrete construction.  While Obsidian is taking some poetic license, it's not that bad.  I would say that, looking more carefully at the rendering, the bigger problem is the uniformity of the ruilns.  Normally, one would see long sections of wall nearly intact, and other areas almost completely gone (to reflect structural weakness and failure).

[Ineth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebar#History

 

Rebar has been in use since the 1700s

 

 

Inside of concrete, yes.

Not inside solid blocks of natural stone.

[Metabot]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebar#History

 

Rebar has been in use since the 1700s

 

 

Inside of concrete, yes.

Not inside solid blocks of natural stone.

 

 

Ok sorry, he mentioned rebar and when it came into use. I'm researching this as I go, ha. 

Edited January 16, 2014 by Metabot

[Metabot]

Actually,  stone structures use metal dowels pegged between  arch-stones.  Re-bar is used in concrete construction.  While Obsidian is taking some poetic license, it's not that bad.  I would say that, looking more carefully at the rendering, the bigger problem is the uniformity of the ruilns.  Normally, one would see long sections of wall nearly intact, and other areas almost completely gone (to reflect structural weakness and failure).

 

I can see what you mean there for sure, but there are some differences between them especially if you look at the lower right.

[curryinahurry]

If any more criticism is wanted regarding the character attributes I'm still seeing a little bit of a problem with the Perception attribute.

 

I like Might, Dex, Con, Int and (maybe) Resolve, but Perception seems a bit off.

 

Here are the issues I see (this may just be me not fully understanding but anyway)

 

Perception and Dexterity both raise Reflex Defense.

 

Dexterity gives you accuracy (always very good, on every character).

 

Perception gives you Penetration and Interrupt. If Penetration is staying, these are both once again reliant on the fact that you have to actually hit (Accuracy). Does Interrupt count on grazes? (I assume not, or at least, at a reduced amount) Because once again, the combat stats of the Perception attribute are highly reliant on the Dexterity attribute. It kind of seems like a similar situation to the last setup (but not as bad as the last Perception).

 

In order for Perception to be useful, you still need a high Dexterity as well.

 

Numbers aside, I can see Perception being useful for one or two characters - it would be beneficial to have a character with max Perception to be able to interrupt enemy spells and whatnot. Could be melee or ranged, with a fast and slow attacking weapon depending on the unit (Bow & Crossbow or maybe Pike & Maul). And depending on whether Penetration is kept it might be alright in a couple situations with slashing/piercing damage dealing characters as well, the penetration value could make a sword or axe more viable vs armor, depending on the math between higher might +dam and perception +pene).

 

So I dunno, maybe that's acceptable, maybe it isn't.

 

I know that the PE design philosophy likes mirrored mechanics, but perhaps Concentration (or Resolve) could square off against Bonus Damage (Might, which is importantly intuitive) for the purposes of determining whether a hit reaction is played or not and have something else on Perception?

 

I know I keep crying "Attack Speed", but with the right math it could work. Move Accuracy to Perception (also intuitive as hand-eye coordination comes from the brain as well as muscle) and put Attack Speed on Dexterity ?

Make it so that max Dexterity negates (or nearly makes up for) the action speed penalty to the heaviest armor (ie the max amount is the same - 20 Dex = +30% (1.5 per point)).

 

(for the record, that's probably not the best or only solution, just an example of one)

 

I'm wondering if Perception could be used, not as a speed modifier, but as a timing modifier.  Interrupt could be extended to include timed attacks like knockdowns, shield bashes, attacks of opportunity, flanking attacks, etc.  It could also be applied to combination attacks like cleave, whirlwind, flurry of blows, etc.  The name might have to change from interrupt to something else like Timing, with Interrupt as a subset.

[curryinahurry]

 

Actually,  stone structures use metal dowels pegged between  arch-stones.  Re-bar is used in concrete construction.  While Obsidian is taking some poetic license, it's not that bad.  I would say that, looking more carefully at the rendering, the bigger problem is the uniformity of the ruilns.  Normally, one would see long sections of wall nearly intact, and other areas almost completely gone (to reflect structural weakness and failure).

 

I can see what you mean there for sure, but there are some differences between them especially if you look at the lower right.

 

 

Yeah, its not that bad...I noticed it and chuckled a bit at the arches, but it still looks very good.  Maybe if they add a little variation on the upper left area, that would be enough.

[Metabot]

I sometimes get frustrated with how much you people can criticize the most inconsequential things. Does this bother anyone else?

[Sensuki]

@sensuki-

 

Aren't you building your party with each member being needed for different tasks?

You only build one character (unless you plan on actually making adventurer's hall characters). I am not the one who came up with the design goals. The aim is for there to be no dump stats and every attribute useful for every class right ?

 

I am only interested in the game being better. Currently if one of the Recruitable NPCs had a high Perception, I would probably "dump it".

Edited January 16, 2014 by Sensuki

[curryinahurry]

@ Metabot

 

Just to be clear, I'm not bothered by it.  I think the image is lovely.  However, I do notice structural oddities as it touches on what I do in real life.  I'm sure others will notice as well, but I don't think it will be an issue for most.

[Lephys]

I sometimes get frustrated with how much you people can criticize the most inconsequential things. Does this bother anyone else?

I feel ya, but I don't mind people just addressing little things like that. What gets me is the "well, because the arches aren't perfect, ALL THE ARTWORK IS CRAP AND THE ART CREW CAN SUCK IT! I'M SO DISAPPOINTED IN ALL THE SCREENSHOTS, EVER!" mentality. When people come in and judge the whole project and team because of minutiae, that makes me lose a little more faith in humanity.

 

Simple arch questions are perfectly fine. I actually enjoy learning little tidbits, such as whether or not arches would be likely to support themselves like that in a ruin, etc. Fun facts.

[Metabot]

 

@sensuki-

 

Aren't you building your party with each member being needed for different tasks?

You only build one character (unless you plan on actually making adventurer's hall characters). I am not the one who came up with the design goals. The aim is for there to be no dump stats and every attribute useful for every class right ?

 

I am only interested in the game being better. Currently if one of the Recruitable NPCs had a high Perception, I would probably "dump it".

 

 

 

Unless you didn't have a party member with high perception.

[Metabot]

 

I sometimes get frustrated with how much you people can criticize the most inconsequential things. Does this bother anyone else?

I feel ya, but I don't mind people just addressing little things like that. What gets me is the "well, because the arches aren't perfect, ALL THE ARTWORK IS CRAP AND THE ART CREW CAN SUCK IT! I'M SO DISAPPOINTED IN ALL THE SCREENSHOTS, EVER!" mentality. When people come in and judge the whole project and team because of minutiae, that makes me lose a little more faith in humanity.

 

Simple arch questions are perfectly fine. I actually enjoy learning little tidbits, such as whether or not arches would be likely to support themselves like that in a ruin, etc. Fun facts.

 

 

 

I think they'd come close to that so it doesn't really matter to me. 

[Sensuki]

Unless you didn't have a party member with high perception.

I already said that. Point is it doesn't look as good of an attribute as the others, atm.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Sensuki

[Metabot]

 

Unless you didn't have a party member with high perception.

I already said that. Point is it doesn't look as good of an attribute as the others, atm.

 

 

That was my point. You're still going to have to make tradeoffs right? So you're going to want one or two characters with perception and maybe a good amount of dex, then you'll want one with a high constitution and resolve, etc.. 

[Sensuki]

That's class and build dependent. If you intend to play with just the cNPCs then like the BGs etc you only have a choice of what those characters have plus your own, and in that case all that really matters is your PC. If there's 8 companions, at least one of them will have a high Perception.

 

But that is not what I am talking about though, I am just referring to the system design balance in relation to the stated goals. I like the direction that the attributes have taken since the last iteration but I think they need a little more work to meet the desired outcome.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Sensuki

[Nihiliste]

Character sheet looks great and really recalls that IE style.  The new attributes are a lot better.  I agree with Sensuki that most of the attributes are much better now but that Perception's value could perhaps be improved.  Or maybe I just don't understand how it works yet.

 

Really looking forward to getting my hands on this game and having a go with character creation.

[Silent Winter]

Am I the only one finding the left FAR easier to read than the right? The background makes the white text much more pop up than that blurry stuff on the right.

I wouldn't see any reason why to make it that way. It looks worse, and it reads worse. What's going on?

 

(Only really pointing this out since Kaz said he would make it more like the right and I went "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooo")

When I look at the right, I find my eyes unfocussing on the group of text - when I look at the left, it stays clear.  (wouldn't be such a distinction with different text but it's worth noting).

[Cubiq]

So might is for wizards spell damage and dex is for his hit chance, what does int do for him?

And how can int help a fighter?

[Hiro Protagonist II]

So might is for wizards spell damage and dex is for his hit chance, what does int do for him?

And how can int help a fighter?

 

I'd like to know more about this as well. The character sheet doesn't explain in detail what it does.

[Sensuki]

So might is for wizards spell damage and dex is for his hit chance, what does int do for him?

And how can int help a fighter?

Int increases the durations of all spells with a duration and the size of AoE spells (such as Fireball).

 

For a Fighter it increases the duration of their abilities (such as the one that regenerates stamina), AoE-wise I am not sure, it might work with their defensive mode or something (and I'm pretty sure they have an AoE stun).

[Guest B0ttleneck]

Looks great, can't wait to play it.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

Int increases the durations of all spells with a duration and the size of AoE spells (such as Fireball).

 

For a Fighter it increases the duration of their abilities (such as the one that regenerates stamina), AoE-wise I am not sure, it might work with their defensive mode or something (and I'm pretty sure they have an AoE stun).

 

 

It doesn't really tells us a great deal though. I can understand cleric spells like Bless would increase in duration (extra rounds) if you had a higher INT and aoe spells would increase in size, but spells like Flame Arrow and Magic Missile, duration and aoe is meaningless. Unless duration also has an affect on casting time? So how does a higher INT help with spells like Magic Missile and Flame Arrow? Or Breach type spells. 

 

If I was playing a Wizard that didn't specialise in aoe spells, then INT seems meaningless as Might is a lot better for damage. eg. the village idiot called Grog who can't string two sentences together can do a whole lot of damage with Magic Missile and Flame Arrow if I pump up stats like Might, Dexterity, Perception. Probably would dump Resolve.

 

The Resolve is a little weird as well. Usually in D&D spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. But if a spell goes off straight away like Magic Missile, then it's done. You don't need to concentrate. So I don't really see the point of Resolve.

 

With a Fighter after a battle, regeneration is instant. During fights, I believe the duration on regen would be so insignificant, you wouldn't even notice the difference if you had a high or low INT.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[neo6874]

What classes are Aloth, Sagani and the Devil of Caroc?

Mook, Underboss, BBEG 

[serge89]

2d portraits? yesss!!

 

3d character portratis are truly awful, great choice

[Sabotin]

Why would you assume INT does something more than what it says? And fighter types can also have AoE and debuffs. In fact I wonder if INT AoE increase also affects the threat area around people, that would be an interesting factor.