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It's not lying if it wasn't known. If you tell someone you'll go jogging with them tomorrow, then it ends up raining tomorrow, and you end up not going jogging, you didn't lie. Circumstances simply altered the results of your intentions.

 

Is it lame to think we're getting a big update, then find out we're not? Life includes delays. Insisting that Obsidian intentionally lied to us and should be able to accurately foresee the future is neither going to eliminate the delay nor make you feel any better.

Not that part of the update. Saying its because you can't guarantee support, then next week talking about still having to fix a handful of major bugs. So, it wasn't ready last week. That's ok. But, then just say that. Edited by C2B
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I am the only person who posted about the Big Update being on Thanksgiving, because they said it would be. They only mentioned it was going to be delayed an hour or so before they posted the smaller update instead. Some people may have taken that with a grain of salt, but Obsidian did intend to post the update on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving.

A lot of people didn't even read the update properly.

 

I'm not even really disappointed about there not being an update, as I said I don't care if it's next year. But it seems I do have to correct people who seem to lack reading comprehension such as yourself.

 

 

And they posted in the previous update that the site wouldn't be up. 

 

The reason for the outrage is, as said before, not because they have delayed everything. People are fine with that. People, however, don't like if the reasons for the delay don't match.

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Hey everyone,

 

We have a small art update today with a few new screenshots, but it's not going to be the big update. We decided that we didn't want to launch the backer portal so close to Thanksgiving because of the technical issues that may arise and many of us will be out of town for the holiday. We are "beta" testing the site right now internally, and Darren is hard at work ironing out issues.

 

We are really sorry about the delay. The team is excited about it just as much as all of you.  :)

 

-Adam

 

 

 

 

Thats totally fine, but the following week somehow a handful of major bugs have arisen? In that case it wasn't ready last week either. Regardless of thanksgiving support.
 
Lie was a strong word I used and I apologize for that. I still think its  a bit dishonest on the other hand. Better communication could have solved this,
Edited by C2B
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They didn't say major bugs, they said high priority bugs :p

 

It's probably stuff that would cost staff hours to resolve issues with, so it's definitely a better idea to get the automated system working properly to save those staff hours.

 

btw I see Adam reading the thread - good guy Adam gives the straight answers *thumbsup* ;)

Edited by Sensuki
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Now, maybe I can clarify why we argue here.

We all have the basic evidence and nobody here is debating wether the other person is stupid or not. The devil lies in the detail and that detail is first and foremost interpretation. C2B, Sensuki and me (though I think I'm not as mad as both of them) took Adam's statement as he was implying that there are no current problems (as opposed to now) and that the only reason for delay is timing (as opposed to bugs still needing a fix). 

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btw I see Adam reading the thread - good guy Adam gives the straight answers *thumbsup* ;)

 

I think we'll get a good enough explanation and by next week its forgotten anyway Still I hope its going to be communicated more clearly in the future.

 

:yes:

 

Can't stay mad at Obs  :cat:

Edited by C2B
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To add to my pragmatic approach:

 

A good way for Obsidian to handle situations such as this would be to, for instance, clarify what a high priority bug is. Could be anything. Only leads to further speculation. It doesn't need to be a technical rundown. Simply a small update on what the problems are and when they think they can resolve it. Laying the cards on the table, being as transparent as possible creates goodwill. People would forgive you a thousand times if you properly explain yourselves instead of trying to cover everything up as simple as possible.

 

Edit. Of course we're not technically entitled to information, it would just be nice. :)

Edited by SophosTheWise
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Hey everyone,

 

We decided that we didn't want to launch the backer portal so close to Thanksgiving because of the technical issues that may arise and many of us will be out of town for the holiday. We are "beta" testing the site right now internally, and Darren is hard at work ironing out issues.

 

We are really sorry about the delay. The team is excited about it just as much as all of you.  :)

 

-Adam

 

 

 

Lie was a strong word I used and I apologize for that. I still think its  a bit dishonest on the other hand. Better communication could have solved this,

 

 

 

Dishonest? Seems very honest with what Adam is saying with bugs and all.

 

No, the only thing dishonest is people creating threads and saying OBZ'S LIED TO US.

 

Better call the waaaahhhhmbulance. I still hear a lot of crying.

 

ndk37p.jpg

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We found out this Sunday night that the site was not going to be ready to go because of a few issues that came up.  We didn't feel confident in fixing and testing the issues in one day before going live. Because we had some extra time I gave Justin Bell the go ahead to do some additional polish work. We want this thing to go out just as much as all of you, and I understand why you are upset. Thank you all for being patient.

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Follow me on twitter - @adam_brennecke

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(though I think I'm not as mad as both of them)

I am merely advocating transparency and being a vigilante moderator / crazy person as categorized by anonymous kickstarter dev.

 

One individual who worked on a popular Kickstarter, who also requested anonymity, said that the most invested backers live and breathe the campaign, clinging to updates and camping in a project's comments. Crowdfunded projects with more grand scopes tend to have "a lot of hopes and dreams all wrapped up into it," and any sort of threat to not having those dreams realized can manifest a multitude of negative or obsessive behavior.

 

On the subject of other backers taking it upon themselves to answer other backers' questions and serve as vigilante moderators and representatives for the title, the individual said that this isn't necessary a bad thing, though some may see their constant presence on the project page as a "crazy unhealthy obsession."

 

"There's a worry all that excitement and energy is going to turn against you."

 

"I definitely know the type of backer, at least that are super-crazy, sometimes almost scarily, passionate," the individual said. "But not really any who took it too far. To be honest, we pretty much only had good experiences with these types of folks — in the end, anyway. I will say there were times that I definitely worried, 'oh crap, this person is maybe a little too into this, this could go either way.' There's a worry all that excitement and energy is going to turn against you.

 

"The flipside is, I think you really need these 'crazy' people who are dissecting every tweet and pore over every detail of everything you say," the individual added.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/11/29/5131286/kickstarter-developers-in-the-age-of-crowdfunding

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We found out this Sunday night that the site was not going to be ready to go because of a few issues that came up.  We didn't feel confident in fixing and testing the issues in one day before going live. Because we had some extra time I gave Justin Bell the go ahead to do some additional polish work. We want this thing to go out just as much as all of you, and I understand why you are upset. Thank you all for being patient.

And there's a solid explanation.

 

Thanks Adam. :)

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Hey everyone,

 

We decided that we didn't want to launch the backer portal so close to Thanksgiving because of the technical issues that may arise and many of us will be out of town for the holiday. We are "beta" testing the site right now internally, and Darren is hard at work ironing out issues.

 

We are really sorry about the delay. The team is excited about it just as much as all of you.  :)

 

-Adam

 

 

 

Lie was a strong word I used and I apologize for that. I still think its  a bit dishonest on the other hand. Better communication could have solved this,

 

 

 

Dishonest? Seems very honest with what Adam is saying with bugs and all.

 

No, the only thing dishonest is people creating threads and saying OBZ'S LIED TO US.

 

Better call the waaaahhhhmbulance. I still hear a lot of crying.

 

ndk37p.jpg

 

 

Look, I get where you're coming from. At the moment I try to understand both sides so that we can effectively communicate - not only to Obsidian - but also to each other. That includes cutting some slack. While you maybe right with some of your points you destroy every attempt to be constructive here. 

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We found out this Sunday night that the site was not going to be ready to go because of a few issues that came up.  We didn't feel confident in fixing and testing the issues in one day before going live. Because we had some extra time I gave Justin Bell the go ahead to do some additional polish work. We want this thing to go out just as much as all of you, and I understand why you are upset. Thank you all for being patient.

 

Thanks Adam, I think that's exactly what everyone wanted to hear :)

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We found out this Sunday night that the site was not going to be ready to go because of a few issues that came up.  We didn't feel confident in fixing and testing the issues in one day before going live. Because we had some extra time I gave Justin Bell the go ahead to do some additional polish work. We want this thing to go out just as much as all of you, and I understand why you are upset. Thank you all for being patient.

So there was no need to get all bent out of shape, after all. Thanks for the info, Adam!

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So I can go sleep now, no update today? ahh ok almost 1am here

I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene"

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We found out this Sunday night that the site was not going to be ready to go because of a few issues that came up.  We didn't feel confident in fixing and testing the issues in one day before going live. Because we had some extra time I gave Justin Bell the go ahead to do some additional polish work. We want this thing to go out just as much as all of you, and I understand why you are upset. Thank you all for being patient.

 

Thanks Adam, I think that's exactly what everyone wanted to hear :)

 

Speak for yourself. I wanted to hear: "Here's the update!" :(

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We found out this Sunday night that the site was not going to be ready to go because of a few issues that came up.  We didn't feel confident in fixing and testing the issues in one day before going live. Because we had some extra time I gave Justin Bell the go ahead to do some additional polish work. We want this thing to go out just as much as all of you, and I understand why you are upset. Thank you all for being patient.

 

Finally the firefighters come to hose down this flamewar.

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Whenever an update is late, delayed, or off-schedule in some way, I do feel a brief twinge of impatience and annoyance, then I remember that we're merely talking about news about an unreleased video game and I go about my day.

 

That said, I think Obsidian and the Project Eternity team do have some room for improvement as far as communication goes. You guys are probably amongst the most revealing, open, honest, and friendly of the Kickstarter game devs, but you sometimes fail at framing things in the right context or clarifying things without prodding from fans. For example, there's the first art update, which wasn't exactly received well in all corners of the web. I think part of the reason for that is because the writeup that accompanied it was more focused on making jokes than on explaining how the drawings and models fit in the context of game making. It's a small distinction, but saying, "We know this art looks ugly to outsiders but it's exactly what we need at this point for ___ reasons," is much better than saying, "WIP, so don't be all 'Argh!'" Similarly, feel free to take a month or two in between updates if the need should arise, but it's better if you give us a heads up and an explanation ahead of time instead of just popping in at the last minute on the expected day.

 

This openness associated with Kickstarter games is very unusual and new so it's quite understandable that there may be hiccups from time to time, and like I said at the start of this post it's relatively trivial stuff anyway. Still, no harm in a little extra trust and goodwill from better communication.

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Look, I get where you're coming from. At the moment I try to understand both sides so that we can effectively communicate - not only to Obsidian - but also to each other. That includes cutting some slack. While you maybe right with some of your points you destroy every attempt to be constructive here. 

 

 

And creating threads, saying Obsidian lied, are dishonest with their backers and pointing accusations at Obsidian is also constructive. :rolleyes:

 

Well this has been fun. :lol:

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You know, it's funny how the internet can amplify or distort people's tone and intent.

 

I'm not seeing any outrage or crying in this thread. I'm hearing C2B going hey i feel like Obsidian has lied to us here a bit, I don't like that, honesty is important in the backer-developer relationship - which seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw based on those two messages (again with the limitations in text) if in hindsight premature. So Adam explains what happened and C2B goes oh that's understandable, thanks for alleviating my concerns.

 

Sweet, this seems fine to me. C2B raises a legitimate concern and it is promptly addressed to his satisfaction. Perfect.

 

What interests me about this whole exchange is the focus on supposed outrage rather than truth and the importance of honesty. Where did that come from? It's probably best to just let this thread die but I was here and felt drawn to comment. You see so much snark all over the internet and it troubles me. 

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So you're nerd raging because they missed an update, and some special website they're working on isn't quite finished yet? Seriously dude, take a break from the internet and have a kitkat and a hot chocolate. It'll cool ya down.

 

(I don't want to be around when they announce a delay to the games release... ACK!)

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You know, it's funny how the internet can amplify or distort people's tone and intent.

 

I'm not seeing any outrage or crying in this thread. I'm hearing C2B going hey i feel like Obsidian has lied to us here a bit, I don't like that, honesty is important in the backer-developer relationship - which seems like a reasonable conclusion to draw based on those two messages (again with the limitations in text) if in hindsight premature. So Adam explains what happened and C2B goes oh that's understandable, thanks for alleviating my concerns.

 

Sweet, this seems fine to me. C2B raises a legitimate concern and it is promptly addressed to his satisfaction. Perfect.

 

What interests me about this whole exchange is the focus on supposed outrage rather than truth and the importance of honesty. Where did that come from? It's probably best to just let this thread die but I was here and felt drawn to comment. You see so much snark all over the internet and it troubles me. 

 

Yeah you have to remember that since conversations here are stripped for all sorts of body language you can only rely on grammars and particularly the charge of your words. "Lying" is a negatively charged word. You used it about a developer, on their forums, among fans who willingly donated money to fund the game they are developing. Of course anything is gonna set us off. I'm not saying they weren't obtuse about their reasons, this is just how it is, people are protective when they feel they have something invested, which may be the same reason you posted your grievances.

Edited by Gyges
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