Kenya Mall Attack

[licketysplit]

With the culture those women grow up in, their duty to god is probably enough motivation. No virgins are needed. The men take a bit more convincing though.

Edited September 23, 2013 by licketysplit

[Lexx]

Maybe they lost sons or something and therefore it was enough to just do vendetta. Who knows.

[Walsingham]

 

I wonder whether Allah is up for equal opportunity? Do female terrorists get male virgins or they become part of the 70 virgins?

 

I've never actually thought about that before, good point. How do these extremists position the afterlife when they convince females to be martyrs?

 

 

I'm no expert in this area but two theories I know of are:

 

- An ironic urge to be taken seriously and have some freedom. Being a terrorist is the only way to get either in the restrictive worlds the backwoods guys come from

- Being the widow of a terrorist. Which means you are frequently on the run anyway, and in need of revenge, and in need of some status to deter 'entitled' holy warriors.

 

The two somewhat inter-relate.

 

Anyone know any other theories?

[BruceVC]

 

 

I wonder whether Allah is up for equal opportunity? Do female terrorists get male virgins or they become part of the 70 virgins?

 

I've never actually thought about that before, good point. How do these extremists position the afterlife when they convince females to be martyrs?

 

 

I'm no expert in this area but two theories I know of are:

 

- An ironic urge to be taken seriously and have some freedom. Being a terrorist is the only way to get either in the restrictive worlds the backwoods guys come from

- Being the widow of a terrorist. Which means you are frequently on the run anyway, and in need of revenge, and in need of some status to deter 'entitled' holy warriors.

 

The two somewhat inter-relate.

 

Anyone know any other theories?

 

 

Those reasons seem the most relevant, I can't think of others that are as appropriate?

[Nepenthe]

 

 

I wonder whether Allah is up for equal opportunity? Do female terrorists get male virgins or they become part of the 70 virgins?

 

I've never actually thought about that before, good point. How do these extremists position the afterlife when they convince females to be martyrs?

 

 

I'm no expert in this area but two theories I know of are:

 

- An ironic urge to be taken seriously and have some freedom. Being a terrorist is the only way to get either in the restrictive worlds the backwoods guys come from

- Being the widow of a terrorist. Which means you are frequently on the run anyway, and in need of revenge, and in need of some status to deter 'entitled' holy warriors.

 

The two somewhat inter-relate.

 

Anyone know any other theories?

 

 

Fanatical belief. IIRC your guys were under unofficial orders to shoot the girls first when dealing with PIRA, because they'd never surrender. Any woman who picks up terror just going from belief is going to be... extreme

 

And, yeah, the obvious, that Wals already skirted, revenge in general.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Nepenthe

[HoonDing]

Imagine a mother-in-law being a terrorist.

 

Ma Barker?

[HoonDing]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2430044/Kenyan-Mall-gunmen-gave-2-children-Mars-bars-sparing-lives.html

 

 

[Hurlshort]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2430044/Kenyan-Mall-gunmen-gave-2-children-Mars-bars-sparing-lives.html

 

I'm guessing that handing out Mars bars isn't going to get him into heaven, but it is an interesting moment.  It makes sense that some of these guys are going to have regrets as soon as they get in the thick of it.

[Malcador]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2430044/Kenyan-Mall-gunmen-gave-2-children-Mars-bars-sparing-lives.html

Nice of him. They should still torture him and the rest to death, though.

[Meshugger]

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2430044/Kenyan-Mall-gunmen-gave-2-children-Mars-bars-sparing-lives.html

 

I'm guessing that handing out Mars bars isn't going to get him into heaven, but it is an interesting moment.  It makes sense that some of these guys are going to have regrets as soon as they get in the thick of it.

 

 

It wouldn't surprise me that the mr. terrorist got a dose of reality on the consequences of their actions when being confronted by the boy. Being drilled that you are fighting a great satan in a holy war will not get you very far in the end.

[Walsingham]

You're going to hate me for banging this drum yet again, but I have to.

 

If a belief that we are the great satan is what motivates them, is it any wonder the smart ones talk when we treat them decently?

[Walsingham]

BREAK

 

From Stratfor.com

 

Kenyan bomb experts are defusing explosives left behind by Islamic militants in Nairobi's Westgate mall as a siege of the al Shabaab-linked militants continues for the fourth day, SBS reported Sept. 24. One or two militants remain barricaded in or around a casino on an upper floor of the complex

 

[HoonDing]

Apparently the "White Widow" was taken down.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2429784/Kenya-mall-attack-Has-Samantha-Lewthwaite-British-White-Widow-killed-Nairobi-siege.html

[Malcador]

The soldier with the FAL looks out of his wits, heh.

[BruceVC]

So the siege is finally over and the following information has been made known

 

• 11 of the attackers have been captured alive. I don't envy there stay in the Kenyan jail system, but its what they deserve. So much for being martyrs. Personally I'm surprised after causing so much death and mayhem they didn't want to die?
• 3 floors of the shopping mall have collapsed. I'm not sure why?
• Some of the attackers are foreigners and are Americans. I don't see why this has shocked people so much. We know that throughout the world there are people who identify with  and have ideological sympathies with groups like Al-Qaeda

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/24/203115/kenya-says-its-captured-11-of.html#.UkJivLEaLrc

[Walsingham]

Bruce, people are regularly shocked because it upsets the narrative that the violence is about some regional issue or other. Doesn't play so well when the terr is third generation from Bristol and the greatest hardship ever inflicted on them by The West is being forced to sit their GCSE exams.

[Meshugger]

We are shocked because we find the very act of deliberately targeting unexpected civilians repugnant.

[Walsingham]

We are shocked because we find the very act of deliberately targeting unexpected civilians repugnant.

 

I meant as in Bruce's comment that people were surprised that so many attackers were Westerners.

 

I didn't mean that civilians getting killed wasn't shocking. Although I would observe that hundreds have been dying in a renewed wave of violence in Iraq, and no-one seems to give a flying ****.

[Meshugger]

Oh sorry, my bad then.

[BruceVC]

Bruce, people are regularly shocked because it upsets the narrative that the violence is about some regional issue or other. Doesn't play so well when the terr is third generation from Bristol and the greatest hardship ever inflicted on them by The West is being forced to sit their GCSE exams.

 

 

 

We are shocked because we find the very act of deliberately targeting unexpected civilians repugnant.

 

I meant as in Bruce's comment that people were surprised that so many attackers were Westerners.

 

I didn't mean that civilians getting killed wasn't shocking. Although I would observe that hundreds have been dying in a renewed wave of violence in Iraq, and no-one seems to give a flying ****.

 

 

@Meshugger

 

Yes Walsies response  is what I meant

 

@ Walsie

 I hear you, it irritates me immensely that people who have amazing  opportunities presented to them living in Western countries still feel the need to go on these absurd and pointless campaigns to destroy the countries or cultures that have given them a home. But it shouldn't surprise people that there are people living in first world countries that are  prepared to do this

 

And  the lack of  media attention and concern to recent bomb blasts in Iraq and Pakistan does concern me. But I suppose the difference is these are more common in those countries and also the attack in Kenya seems more callous and unexpected. Also it wasn't a bomb being set off by some unknown suicide bomber but people attacking a mall and the event going on for days, so you would expect more attention?

Edited September 25, 2013 by BruceVC

[Walsingham]

Oh sorry, my bad then.

 

No, sorry, mate. I didn't mean to jump on you specifically. I'm just talking the BBC etc.

 

All these British jihadis talk about defending muslims. But it's the god damned jihadis who are killing thousands worldwide. But that's not what they see on TV. It's not what's trendy right now. The trendy narrative is that it's Ze Evil West, so off they trot to dust-bowl nowhere and start killing muslims. It's the ineluctable stupidity and avoidable circumstance of it which riles me more than anything else.

[BruceVC]

 

Oh sorry, my bad then.

 

No, sorry, mate. I didn't mean to jump on you specifically. I'm just talking the BBC etc.

 

All these British jihadis talk about defending muslims. But it's the god damned jihadis who are killing thousands worldwide. But that's not what they see on TV. It's not what's trendy right now. The trendy narrative is that it's Ze Evil West, so off they trot to dust-bowl nowhere and start killing muslims. It's the ineluctable stupidity and avoidable circumstance of it which riles me more than anything else.

 

 

Well its a terrible cost but all the  attacks like the Kenya Mall do is crystallize and reinforce sentiment that is opposed to fundamentalism. The West is seen in a better light as countries can now identify with them and the last 10 years. Its no longer a " Al-Qaeda is America's problem" its now a problem that many countries need to address, and this is how it should be. I am already seeing a difference in the content in talk shows and interviews in South Africa around what needs to be done about the likes of Boko Haram and Al-Shabaab.

[Volourn]

"Bruce, people are regularly shocked because it upsets the narrative that the violence is about some regional issue or other."

 

Eh. Many muslims are Amerikan so it shouldn't be surprising that a small percentage would support extremist pieces of crap. I really wish  the 'good\ muslims would stop excusing the evil of the 'bad' muslims by going 'what they did was wrong but'... nonsense. There is no but. It is indefensible. Period. ie. In Iraq, AQ, and other terroroists and so called \freedom fighters' have killed more Iraqis than Amerikans have. This is likely true most everywhere that AQ 'fights the good fight'.

 

As for this particular situation, disgusting.

[Walsingham]

In fairness to the Al Qaeda franchise, I think I'm safe in saying that the bodycount is very typically mainly 'friendly civilians' for just about every political insurgency. It's just that 'Qaeda are particularly keen on using mass casualty attacks just to weaken public perceptions of government authority, make 'ze infidel' pay for insults to their mates etc. So you actually SEE the casualties, rather than them disappearing off the street, on a cold November afternoon.

 

I make no bones about being hugely biased in terms of my perspective. But I hope you can see (looking from my point of view) that I'd be regularly annoyed by the news.

[BruceVC]

 It's just that 'Qaeda are particularly keen on using mass casualty attacks just to weaken public perceptions of government authority, make 'ze infidel' pay for insults to their mates etc.

 

 

Except as usual with these types of extremist groups that perception is a miscalculation. When has a terrorist attack on the home soil of a country actually caused that country to acquiesce to the demands of the terrorists? I think terrorist attacks unify people against the people attacking them

 

9/11 made the USA more belligerent and its military much more powerful. Granted mistakes were made, like Iraq, but  end of the day what did Al-Qaeda gain? They lost a country that they operated in with impunity, Afghanistan, and have been on the run since. No country in the world gives them legal shelter and most countries are actively opposed to them. I don't see this a victory by any sense. I know you aren't saying it is but I am just mentioning the current state of Al-Qaeda

Edited September 25, 2013 by BruceVC