What Made The Baldur's Gate's Great That Eternity NEEDS

[Death Machine Miyagi]

So you don't think decent voice acting and music adds to the immersion at all? What music did you listen to when you were playing through BG1+2, PS etc?

 

Decent voice acting adds to the immersion, unquestionably. Unfortunately it also adds to expense and linearity. I'd rather have an RPG in which there are a whole variety of ways to solve quests, and a whole variety of major changes to gameplay depending on your actions and decisions, than an RPG which blows a big chunk of its budget on making sure every NPC voices their dialogue. That's exactly one of the things that has led to Bioware's decline in recent years, since they care more about making sure the player never has to read anything than they do about making the player's choices actually affect anything.

 

I wouldn't even be bothered if they axed voice acting entirely...but probably the best middle ground here is precisely the Infinity Engine approach of strategic use of voice acting rather than every piece of dialogue being voiced. 

[rjshae]

For their time period, there were a lot of things to enjoy about the BG series:

• The sense of being to creatively control tactics at the squad level.
• The mood music and atmospheric sounds were almost consistently good.
• Some of the creative quips spoken by the NPCs helped maintain immersion.
• The fog of war effect provided a strong sense of exploration.
• The cut scenes held the plot together and provided a story for your character.

A few of the things I didn't like:

• The cookie-cutter feel of many of the NPCs and creatures.
• A few of the tunes grew repetitive, such as in the taverns and inns.
• Poor walk-pathing in constricted areas.
• The unnecessary clutter of items in your inventory, such as potions and notes.
• The enemy A.I. can be pretty stupid at times.

[TrashMan]

BG2 was great. I love it.

The music, atmosphere, characters - loved it!

 

ToB I didn't like as much. Too much trash fights, high level item clutter that compeltely ruined the whole atmosphere.

 

KOTOR2...was OK. Honestly I hated hte plot twists. I consider the "wound in the force" to be one of the stupidest ideas ever...and Kreia was obviously the villan from the second I saw her. Never liked her either..

[Tauron]

BG2 was great. I love it.

The music, atmosphere, characters - loved it!

 

ToB I didn't like as much. Too much trash fights, high level item clutter that compeltely ruined the whole atmosphere.

 

I acually thought high lvl items made lot of sense. Past lvl 20 and you are playing at 'demigod' lvl.

[BruceVC]

I really enjoyed the interaction with your party members and the Romance options (Viconia was my favourite). I firmly believe that Romance adds realism and a deeper immersive factor in any RPG. I also enjoyed the narrative in BG2 and the way you had to fight different children of Bhaal, it was exciting

Edited October 3, 2013 by BruceVC

[TrashMan]

 

BG2 was great. I love it.

The music, atmosphere, characters - loved it!

 

ToB I didn't like as much. Too much trash fights, high level item clutter that compeltely ruined the whole atmosphere.

 

I acually thought high lvl items made lot of sense. Past lvl 20 and you are playing at 'demigod' lvl.

 

 

Maybe. Don't know how much sense there was in every enemy droppin +4 or +5 gear.

I just don't like it.

 

"Ohh..another +5 sword" *throws it on a pile and moves on, not even bothering to sell it*

 

Such overabdundance of super-magical items ruins the "magic" of it.

 

I still remeber BG1, where every magical item was a great find and even a normal, good-quality sword wasn't worthless and oyu coudl compelte thegame with it.

Edited October 3, 2013 by TrashMan

[Yonjuro]

 

ToB I didn't like as much. Too much trash fights, ....

 

 

 Yup. In particular, the oasis map was very silly. You have a main character that had gained immunity to +1 or lower weapons and 50 grunts with +1 weapons or lower. Not really a fight so much as a scheduling issue. (On the other hand, I suppose this does highlight how far your character has come from the days of running away from wolves outside of candlekeep.)

 

 I think the main thing I didn't like about ToB was the linear play. The exploration of the previous two installments wasn't there at all. All quests were mandatory (and not even a lot of choice in the order you do them in). Worse yet, the person giving orders to you was pretty obviously going to end up being the villain. You could see that coming but your PC could not.

[Dawn Quixotic]

BG2 was great. I love it.

The music, atmosphere, characters - loved it!

 

ToB I didn't like as much. Too much trash fights, high level item clutter that compeltely ruined the whole atmosphere.

 

KOTOR2...was OK. Honestly I hated hte plot twists. I consider the "wound in the force" to be one of the stupidest ideas ever...and Kreia was obviously the villan from the second I saw her. Never liked her either..

 

 

It's kind of interesting, because in that respect, ToB shows how D&D itself tends to break down at around that stage. Ridiculously powerful enemies everywhere, with armies of "elite orogs" who are basically foot soldiers but levelled up to be challenge to you guys... repetitive loads of loot... some stuff you can't even use.... and tons of junk like everybody has a +2 or something weapon, again, to stay competitive as a challenge for you, lots of +5 weapons (which, I can kind of see the justification for wanting a +5 weapon of every kind), and it's like... if you had more exploration and sidequests it'd get even more ridiculous because how are all these challenges existing here?

 

 

 

Yup. In particular, the oasis map was very silly. You have a main character that had gained immunity to +1 or lower weapons and 50 grunts with +1 weapons or lower. Not really a fight so much as a scheduling issue. (On the other hand, I suppose this does highlight how far your character has come from the days of running away from wolves outside of candlekeep.)

 

 I think the main thing I didn't like about ToB was the linear play. The exploration of the previous two installments wasn't there at all. All quests were mandatory (and not even a lot of choice in the order you do them in). Worse yet, the person giving orders to you was pretty obviously going to end up being the villain. You could see that coming but your PC could not.

 

 

Any one of the Five had loads more charisma than Melissan did.

[Messier-31]

Have they said much on front? As in, will it be more like Torment where basically there's enough for the party, plus a couple extras, or closer to the first Baldur's Gate where there would be a ton to choose from? Or in the middle, like BG2?

 

What, quantity?

 

There are going to be at least eight companions in the final game.This number does not include the companions from the Adventurer's Hall.

 

Sources:

http://eternity.gamepedia.com/Companion

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/posts/329689

[Death Machine Miyagi]

ToB I didn't like as much. Too much trash fights, high level item clutter that completely ruined the whole atmosphere.

 

ToB provides a number of guidelines of what not to do.

 

1. Don't make your 'hidden' villain so blatantly obvious the player guesses it the second they see her. We don't know this woman, we've never heard of her or seen her, and yet the developers expect us to accept on faith that she's a 'guardian of Bhaalspawn' who is out to protect us? And really, whose genius idea was it to start the whole expansion pack with a big stone head basically telling you straight out 'someone is going to pretend to be an ally but actually be an enemy', then follow it up with Gromnir (the NPC, not the poster) telling you flat-out what the villain's real plan is?

 

2. If you are going to make your 'hidden' villain blatantly obvious, don't railroad us into believing her and being suckered by her plan because your expansion pack's plotline doesn't work otherwise. 

 

3. High-level play should not mean 'facing an entire army whose regular foot soldiers are equipped with +3 weapons and armor', though I understand that its tricky making an interesting game for a party composed of characters who are above level 25+. Obsidian actually fell into this trap, too, in Mask of the Betrayer with its epic-level gnolls guarding a Thayan academy and absurd crap like that.

 

4. Foreshadowing. Jesus, but they dropped the ball on this one; they desperately needed to provide some foreshadowing. You never hear once of 'the Five' or 'Mellissan' during the entirety of the series beforehand, or even of any other Bhaalspawn (except the teleporting guy and Imoen), until suddenly you're dropped into whole armies these people have assembled out of nowhere. Is it really too much to ask of game developers to sit down and really think about how they're going to end a series with an overarching plotline, rather than just making something up at the last minute?

 

And so on. There's more, but some of it has already been mentioned above.

 

I'll give ToB this, though; it has an awesome soundtrack, the most epic music in the series.

[TrashMan]

 

It's kind of interesting, because in that respect, ToB shows how D&D itself tends to break down at around that stage. Ridiculously powerful enemies everywhere, with armies of "elite orogs" who are basically foot soldiers but levelled up to be challenge to you guys... repetitive loads of loot... some stuff you can't even use.... and tons of junk like everybody has a +2 or something weapon, again, to stay competitive as a challenge for you, lots of +5 weapons (which, I can kind of see the justification for wanting a +5 weapon of every kind), and it's like... if you had more exploration and sidequests it'd get even more ridiculous because how are all these challenges existing here?

 

 

Every leveling system has that problem, not just D&D

[Dawn Quixotic]

 

4. Foreshadowing. Jesus, but they dropped the ball on this one; they desperately needed to provide some foreshadowing. You never hear once of 'the Five' or 'Mellissan' during the entirety of the series beforehand, or even of any other Bhaalspawn (except the teleporting guy and Imoen), until suddenly you're dropped into whole armies these people have assembled out of nowhere. Is it really too much to ask of game developers to sit down and really think about how they're going to end a series with an overarching plotline, rather than just making something up at the last minute?

 

And so on. There's more, but some of it has already been mentioned above.

 

I'll give ToB this, though; it has an awesome soundtrack, the most epic music in the series.

 

 

Remember the epilogue to SoA where those hooded guys were like, "This Spawn of Bhaal is DOOOMED!" and like, who were they? What happened to them?

 

 

 

Every leveling system has that problem, not just D&D

 

D&D just seems more egregious because epic levels often feel tacked on. Like, Level 20 is supposed to be the pinnacle and then you go beyond that... and there's stuff in the third edition epic level handbook that expects you to be 50 or 60 levels.

 

 

 

[Malekith]

 

Remember the epilogue to SoA where those hooded guys were like, "This Spawn of Bhaal is DOOOMED!" and like, who were they? What happened to them?

 

 

Melisan, the Five and Draconis... i quess

[Death Machine Miyagi]

 

 

Remember the epilogue to SoA where those hooded guys were like, "This Spawn of Bhaal is DOOOMED!" and like, who were they? What happened to them?

 

 

Melisan, the Five and Draconis... i quess

 

They were all men. In green robes.

 

The official answer is, I think, Bioware just forgot about them. If there's one thing worse than non-existent foreshadowing for important events, it's foreshadowing that foreshadows something the writer forgets about in favor of something he/she pulls out of his/her ass.

 

But, of course, the bar for decent writing in video games has been set so low for so long that people just kinda accept these things. 

[Malekith]

 

 

 

Remember the epilogue to SoA where those hooded guys were like, "This Spawn of Bhaal is DOOOMED!" and like, who were they? What happened to them?

 

 

Melisan, the Five and Draconis... i quess

 

They were all men. In green robes.

 

How do you know that, since they wore robes and all that? Only two of them spoke...

[Death Machine Miyagi]

 

 

 

 

Remember the epilogue to SoA where those hooded guys were like, "This Spawn of Bhaal is DOOOMED!" and like, who were they? What happened to them?

 

 

Melisan, the Five and Draconis... i quess

 

They were all men. In green robes.

 

How do you know that, since they wore robes and all that? Only two of them spoke...

 

They all had the same face of a white guy and were human-sized. There is precisely one human-sized white guy in the Five. And none of their voices matched any of the Five. And they were discussing 'the Bhaalspawn' as if the entire room wasn't already filled with Bhaalspawn. 

 

I dunno. I just find it a huge stretch to match those guys up with the enemies we face in ToB. If that's who they were intended to be, then it seems obvious the robed guys were the equivalent of a placeholder until Bioware figured out exactly who they wanted your opponents to be in ToB, which is still very sloppy.

[Malekith]

 

 

 

 

 

Remember the epilogue to SoA where those hooded guys were like, "This Spawn of Bhaal is DOOOMED!" and like, who were they? What happened to them?

 

 

Melisan, the Five and Draconis... i quess

 

They were all men. In green robes.

 

How do you know that, since they wore robes and all that? Only two of them spoke...

 

They all had the same face of a white guy and were human-sized. There is precisely one human-sized white guy in the Five. And none of their voices matched any of the Five. And they were discussing 'the Bhaalspawn' as if the entire room wasn't already filled with Bhaalspawn. 

 

I dunno. I just find it a huge stretch to match those guys up with the enemies we face in ToB. If that's who they were intended to be, then it seems obvious the robed guys were the equivalent of a placeholder until Bioware figured out exactly who they wanted your opponents to be in ToB, which is still very sloppy.

 

No arguement about that. I believe they had a vargue idea about ToB plot, but they didn't knew who exactly the villains would be, so the rolled with "mysterious cowled figures" as it's the laziest trope around and could in theory act as placeholder for almost anything.

But then they had to make the Five to include giants and dragons among their number...

[StrangeCat]

I think what made Shadows of the Amm so Great was the Villians Story and the Characters.

the Bickering between characters, the romance, the feeling of them struggling.  This was not to be contested.

 

There was a lot of lose ends if I remember but a mod really tied it all up creating nice epic story of Romance and Good Vs Evil or what side will you decide on for being a God.  

The Expansion did very good job as well.

 

Game companies need to realize that if your game has great Characters that the player will feel real, feel for what they are doing, and you have a believable world that reacts to those characters and there stuggles, then you will have a successful game.

Good Example is The Last of US.

 

The music was ok nothing to special.  

 

So far I do not know how Project Eternity will be compared to Baldur's Gate 2.  Honestly I think your updates are subpar.

 

[Silent Winter]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Remember the epilogue to SoA where those hooded guys were like, "This Spawn of Bhaal is DOOOMED!" and like, who were they? What happened to them?

 

 

Melisan, the Five and Draconis... i quess

 

They were all men. In green robes.

 

How do you know that, since they wore robes and all that? Only two of them spoke...

 

They all had the same face of a white guy and were human-sized. There is precisely one human-sized white guy in the Five. And none of their voices matched any of the Five. And they were discussing 'the Bhaalspawn' as if the entire room wasn't already filled with Bhaalspawn. 

 

I dunno. I just find it a huge stretch to match those guys up with the enemies we face in ToB. If that's who they were intended to be, then it seems obvious the robed guys were the equivalent of a placeholder until Bioware figured out exactly who they wanted your opponents to be in ToB, which is still very sloppy.

 

No arguement about that. I believe they had a vargue idea about ToB plot, but they didn't knew who exactly the villains would be, so the rolled with "mysterious cowled figures" as it's the laziest trope around and could in theory act as placeholder for almost anything.

But then they had to make the Five to include giants and dragons among their number...

 

I thought they were supposed to be the cowled wizards' council or something - just worrying what to do about the threat and scheming something, but the leader points out that the fate of the Bhaalspawn is already sealed ... or something.

 

Agree that it would've been better to get it straight from the get-go and foreshadow with a meeting of the 5+M

Edited October 6, 2013 by Silent Winter

[Tauron]

 

 

BG2 was great. I love it.

The music, atmosphere, characters - loved it!

 

ToB I didn't like as much. Too much trash fights, high level item clutter that compeltely ruined the whole atmosphere.

 

I acually thought high lvl items made lot of sense. Past lvl 20 and you are playing at 'demigod' lvl.

 

 

Maybe. Don't know how much sense there was in every enemy droppin +4 or +5 gear.

I just don't like it.

 

"Ohh..another +5 sword" *throws it on a pile and moves on, not even bothering to sell it*

 

Such overabdundance of super-magical items ruins the "magic" of it.

 

I still remeber BG1, where every magical item was a great find and even a normal, good-quality sword wasn't worthless and oyu coudl compelte thegame with it.

 

 

I can see why you dont like it, but considering context of the story, it makes alot of sense. Enemies you are fighting are demonic legions (immunity to normal weapons up to +3) planewalkers assasins and mercenaries, small armies of fanatic followers for wanna be ascendants to godhood and they all are fighting themself aswell. Gods cant partake directly so they send their own minions, etc. You dont walk throug nine hells with +1 stick and get to tell story about it. ( exception to Elminster maybe)

 

It is comparing two extremes.You would have disliked if legions of flaming fist was at your heels and all you have to do is cast deathspell or two aaand just in case summon pitfiend to mopup the floor..pitfiend is maybe tad too much :D  (wiz perspective).

 

Personally BG1 is my all time favorit not just for how even magical world seemed 'real' but it was revolutionary game compared to what was out at the time. So that impression sticks with you long, that awsome sense of wonder. Playing BG was like having constant feeling of  'epiphany' , sort of...a true nerdgasm. After BG2 , some mystery is gone. ToB is simply endgame, not much of 'material', aka loot really matters that much, there is no point to gold now whn your character is at doorstep of ascendancy to godhood. As if 100 or lets say few hundred epic or legendary items really matters, unless you have a small army to equip :D I just think most people dont like that game was over haha. 

[okkoko]

 

 

It's kind of interesting, because in that respect, ToB shows how D&D itself tends to break down at around that stage. Ridiculously powerful enemies everywhere, with armies of "elite orogs" who are basically foot soldiers but levelled up to be challenge to you guys... repetitive loads of loot... some stuff you can't even use.... and tons of junk like everybody has a +2 or something weapon, again, to stay competitive as a challenge for you, lots of +5 weapons (which, I can kind of see the justification for wanting a +5 weapon of every kind), and it's like... if you had more exploration and sidequests it'd get even more ridiculous because how are all these challenges existing here?

 

 

Every leveling system has that problem, not just D&D

 

what if they changed it, wit competitive year/monthly events, and fame/level world events, like course something you did inside a dungeon activating something, you set in motion a world that fey like spawned new kind of monsters stronger different brilliant and brutal sinister forces ether gate in from some other dimension or .simple you just fund out about the location

[GrayAngel]

Sorry But if you talk music in IF engine Games there is only one Icewind Dale sir there is no better.

[Malekith]

Sorry But if you talk music in IF engine Games there is only one Icewind Dale sir there is no better.

To be honest i prefered PS:T music, but i undertand where you come from. IWD is my second favorite.

[FlintlockJazz]

The main thing I think it needs from the BG games is the sense of being an adventurer.  BG made you feel like an adventurer, just walking the streets often led you to discovering adventures, and yet each one felt detailed and meaningful.  The Elder Scroll games had many side quests, but they often feel generic and the characters lack personality, going for quantity and sandboxiness, while JRPGs often have big stories but very undeveloped side quests if at all.  BG hit the sweet spot, I still remember the time I stumbled across a slaving ring in the Slums, just walking through the slums I came across a slave gang and after freeing the slaves was told that the local tavern was the base for the slave ring, something I could also find out by talking to the harlots there.  Or how I came across the murders going on in the bridge district with the skinchanger, the murderer I then discovered again in Trademeet.  How each dungeon felt like the centre of it's own epic quest rather than a random cave in the middle of nowhere.  This is the strength of the BG games, the sense of being an adventurer in a tabletop game.

 

That's my opinion anyway.