Update #62: Production 01 - State of the Project

[mstark]

Ahh, thanks a lot! The name makes more sense with that history behind it.

[catspwnme]

This needs to be the new standard for state of the union addresses! 

 

Thank you for the update. Me and my cats are getting excited! 

[Malekith]

Ahh, thanks a lot! The name makes more sense with that history behind it.

Google how many cities in America are named Independence

[Ieo]

Re: text colors

 

One thing to consider is if one is color blind, the text should still be at least readable. Not being color blind myself, I don't know what dark green on dark brown background would look like, if it would have enough contrast or not.

 

At any rate, this isn't to say one shouldn't have colors in text ... just that the contrast between text and background would hopefully be enough that it's still readable even if one can't see the intended color. Just a thought.

 

That's what I pointed out in a previous post with a link to text usability/accessibility design; and there are actually color blindness emulators for this purpose, which is neat:

 

 

Now, there's talk above about the old IE red text on black(ish) background. I tolerated it fine, but I didn't feel it was particularly readable. And text/background color is a big part of the usability/accesibility field. Red/green color-blindness is pretty common, and the ESPN example on the text design website I linked is an interesting example. That weird brown on black doesn't look nice at all. 

 

 

So high contrast on solid backgrounds is best, and then we can talk about hue. If you scroll halfway down the link, there's the ESPN example where the normal branded color is red, but it looks like a muddy brown to someone with red/green color blindness.

 

Out of curiosity, I downloaded the Web Accessibility Tools Consortium app (compliant with WCAG 2.0 guidelines) to test out the various screenshots in this thread. The PST screen: Fail, red dialogue on brown background. Pass on AA for the off-green description text on brown background, but fail AAA level criteria. The BG screenshots: Fail, red dialogue on black or near-black background.

 

Here's what the BG dialogue text would look like, for example:

 

FYI, protanopia and deuternaopia together comprise a minimum 7% of the population, most likely more because apparently many people go through adulthood without even realizing they're color blind(!).  Sorry to the "old school IE games did it like that" folks, but this is one case where basic accessibility should trump tradition, hands down. 

 

Of course, if text/UI coloration is possibly moddable, that'd be great too.

 

Edit: Before I forget and before the edit window closes---here are the results for the PE example screenshot:

 

Edited August 21, 2013 by Ieo

[LadyCrimson]

That's an interesting example/contrast ratio. I'd definitely find that 2nd line hard to read if I had to read it for long periods. 

And I agree that when text/reading is a big/major aspect of the game, it should be as accessible as possible.

[Rostere]

 

By Brandon Adler, Producer

 

Conversations

While we have been getting more and more Alpha UI into the game, I was particularly happy with how the conversation UI came out. Take a look for yourself, though. Even though this is still a work in progress, I think everyone did a great job. Let us know what you think of the conversation UI in our forums.

 

 

Oh please. I cry TEARS OF JOY when I see this. THIS IS PERFECT!

[Lephys]

Oh, but they explained what the vertical slice is in a past update…

I knew what it was, just not that it was complete already. To my knowledge, it sorta skipped from "we're so close!" to now, at which point we're at "Oh yeah, that was already finished some time ago." No biggie. I just didn't know, heh.

 

 

Have anyone thought how this thing actually runs with these enormous toes and claws-like nails on its legs? 

I mean, it doesn't look like velociraptor, it doesn't have these special muscles to move them upward while running...

If you have doubts I suggest to try running in flippers to understand this idea. :-D

American basketball players tend to have very large feet. How do they run?

 

I'm not trying to be an arse. I'm just pointing out that we should probably figure that, unlike flippers, large feet actually have frontal-foot and toe muscles. Also, the malicious entity possessing them could very well alter their musculature in addition to granting them nightmare-inducing visages. 8P

 

 

In regard to the text/dialogue UI thing, I wasn't trying to say they can't use red text (obviously BG and BG2 did it, and it wasn't the end of the world). I wasn't even commenting on whether or not I liked it. I was only pointing out that the use of red on a very dark background is not readability-friendly to the human eye. Sure, you can go out of your way to ensure it's decently readable, but it's a lot harder to make readable than other colors on the same or other backgrounds. As long as it's at least as fine as BG was, it's not going to be an issue.

 

And, for the UI/frame, I wasn't meaning to say it was bad or anything. I like it, and just so happened to also consider more organic themes in a UI/frame versus more refined/synthetic visual themes. I think when the gameplay area is often filled with at least SOME natural environment, a little natural aspect showing themselves in the UI frame helps them coexist a bit more. It was just a "this might enhance it even more" suggestion, for consideration, and not a "if you did this, it wouldn't suck anymore."

[Agremont]

Nice to read that the game is coming along nicely. Can't wait to see some gameplay. Hopefully the wait won't be to long.

 

Oh and the wicht looks scary. I like it!

[Hormalakh]

I don't see why a narrative text needs a "speaker." Osrnaer isn't speaking the first line, so it's frankly a little confusing to have him "speaking" those lines. I would recommend having those blocked off separately. Try different colors too, see what looks good and is quickly understandable.

 

I have to agree with removing the - from each option. Similarly, make sure to make actions clearly identifible and separate from dialogue options. The inform players the beginning of the game that actions use certain attributes while dialogue uses other attributes. Making this even more clear by using two different colors, fonts, styles will help players.

 

Best of luck with the rest of the stuff. Please please please make sure your Ai is robust! Also please have an option to clear all fog of war from outdoor maps after the map has been "cleared." Mny of us have OCD.

 

Also I wonder that since your fow is fairly robust, perhaps you guys can come up with some interesting and unique puzzles that utilize the fow mechanic.

 

All the best

Edited August 22, 2013 by Hormalakh

[Iucounu]

I was hit by nostalgia as well. Must be in the wood-skin of the interface, or don't know. Who understands nostalgia anyway?

Awesome update, also Defiance Bay, the age of discovery, change, sounds exciting. 

[Wombat]

Oh, but they explained what the vertical slice is in a past update…

I knew what it was, just not that it was complete already. To my knowledge, it sorta skipped from "we're so close!" to now, at which point we're at "Oh yeah, that was already finished some time ago." No biggie. I just didn't know, heh.

Yeah, I guess they have been being too busy to update the info since they had gone into the "professional-only" phases.  So, big ideas related to core game systems are very unlikely to go through any more while something like UI seem to be subject to change.

 

Oh, belated but thanks for the update, anyway.

[savior1024]

I agree with staeff that there is no need for the conversiation UI to look like a chat log. If the game was a cyberpunk RPG, it would fit the mood, but not like this. So, a few suggestions:

 

1. Display the name of the character in the window "title", or under their image on the left.

2. Do not display the name in the panel, or if you want to

3. Display it only when it's the NPC's turn to speak, not for every sentence he tells. In this case, it would be the best, if the name was displayed above the text, instead of inline:

 

Esmael:

"Yadda-yadda"

 

"Yadda-yadda"

 

Player:

"Blah-blah-blah"

[ShadySands]

My only issue is we still don't know the real title of the game. Are you waiting for the anniversary of the Kickstarter to reveal it, or what?

 

Dragon Age: Eternity 

[Ineth]

Baldurscape Dale, Episode 1: Souls of Eternity

[sunfog]

 

Have anyone thought how this thing actually runs with these enormous toes and claws-like nails on its legs? 

I mean, it doesn't look like velociraptor, it doesn't have these special muscles to move them upward while running...

If you have doubts I suggest to try running in flippers to understand this idea. :-D

American basketball players tend to have very large feet. How do they run? 

 

I'm not trying to be an arse. I'm just pointing out that we should probably figure that, unlike flippers, large feet actually have frontal-foot and toe muscles. Also, the malicious entity possessing them could very well alter their musculature in addition to granting them nightmare-inducing visages. 8P

 

Well, I sincerely hope that american basketball players don't tend to run without shoes with 5 inches nails on their feet)))

 

"Flippers" referred to "claw-like nails" not toes itself. Generally claws are used to catch and hold prey. I certainly would like to see how this wicht-thing is going to catch and hold prey. Otherwise claws on its feet is a pointless attribute which only hinder to run (unless it flies).

 

I have nothing against the probability of "alter their musculature". Cats (felids) have the ability to protract their claws from a retracted, at-rest position.

But again not this size.

[Rostere]

I agree with staeff that there is no need for the conversiation UI to look like a chat log. If the game was a cyberpunk RPG, it would fit the mood, but not like this. So, a few suggestions:

 

1. Display the name of the character in the window "title", or under their image on the left.

2. Do not display the name in the panel, or if you want to

3. Display it only when it's the NPC's turn to speak, not for every sentence he tells. In this case, it would be the best, if the name was displayed above the text, instead of inline:

 

Esmael:

"Yadda-yadda"

 

"Yadda-yadda"

 

Player:

"Blah-blah-blah"

 

Awful suggestions, I want it to look more like a script for a play. The current look is perfect.

[Hormalakh]

Another thing you can do is to have the two sides of the UI come into play. Use the left sided panel for one side of the conversation, and the other panel for the other side of the conversation. So you would have two (or more) portraits in your convo UI and then you left or right justify your convo based on who's talking. This also allows you to have multiple characters talking part in one side of the convo without it looking too complicated and that you know who's in the banter and who isn't and which side said what.

 

Innkeeper on one side of the panel with either a portrait of his character model (or something simple like a symbol of food and inns)

leader and haggler from your team on the other side of th panel. You click the appropriate character portrait you want whenever you want to use their attributes and then click your dialogue option.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Hormalakh

[mstark]

I want it to look more like a script for a play.

 

This this this this this this.

 

Along the lines of: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_klDNivkicgw/TBue-6-wlgI/AAAAAAAAE1g/2MIFb-jOeFU/s1600/1990+Pig+play+script2.JPG, which is not far from the current system, descriptive text and action just needs a visual separation (italics!) from speech. I would also love to see manuscript like use of em/en-dashes, ellipses, brackets... where it makes sense. Maybe we could encourage people to read up on their punctuation  

Edited August 22, 2013 by mstark

[IndiraLightfoot]

Rostere & Mstark, I agree 100 %!

 

And wouldn't it be nice if the UI convo border looked like old leather covers or something instead of big planks with nails? Somehow it makes more sense as a personal frame to view the game through instead of a tree house.

[mstark]

And wouldn't it be nice if the UI convo border looked like old leather covers or something instead of big planks with nails? Somehow it makes more sense as a personal frame to view the game through instead of a tree house.

I was unsure about the choice of wood until I remembered that the main setting of the story is the Dyrwood, it makes a bit of sense that way. Ideally, I'd like to see the UI inspired by some architectural vogue of the area (which might well be what it currently is), though I'd be equally happy for a "leatherbound" look to conversations.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Indeed, just to mark the convo UI as something of annals - perhaps being similar to the UI of the journal?

[Locuus]

A comment on the Conversation UI: Can there be an option to use a Sans seriff font?

 

Also not sure if it has already been addressed, but could there be an option to scale the UI up? In a lot of games it is hard to read anything when using a high-resolution monitor (2560x1440, for example) because there is no scaling.

 

Other than that, love the game idea, love the news updates. Can't wait for release. Best of luck!!

[mstark]

A comment on the Conversation UI: Can there be an option to use a Sans seriff font?

 

Also not sure if it has already been addressed, but could there be an option to scale the UI up? In a lot of games it is hard to read anything when using a high-resolution monitor (2560x1440, for example) because there is no scaling.

 

Other than that, love the game idea, love the news updates. Can't wait for release. Best of luck!!

The screenshot of the dialog window provided looks just about the right size on my WQHD 27" monitor, I would assume it was taken with the UI scaled to its largest setting. The dimensions of that dialog window is 1090px*475px, almost enough to cover the entire screen of a 720p monitor.

 

I'm worried that at even its largest setting it'll look tiny on 30" 4k screens at native resolutions, and it certainly will on a few 13" laptops on the market with WQHD, QHD+, or higher resolutions. While you could play the game at a non-native resolution to bring text up to readability on these screens, this could potentially destroy the appearance of the bitmap fonts used due to physical pixels not lining up with digital ones, causing untold things to happen to text anti-aliasing.

[Sensuki]

The wood gives a bit of a colonial vibe, that's for sure.

[jethro]

Wood or no Wood, the border around the text window is to wide IMO. I would prefer smaller borders. I vividly remember how often I had to scroll ... and scroll ... and scroll to get to some information in BG and all its descendants. So the more text is able to fit into the window, the less scrolling is necessary

 

Part of it was the flood of information that came up in fights, which might be diminshed in PE, but even in conversations it was bad to have long descriptions broken up because it didn't fit into the tiny rectangle below.

Edited August 22, 2013 by jethro