Shape Shifter class please!

[TarponCrest]

First I am happy to have discovered this project (game). Ice wind dale 2, NWN 2 are among my favorite games (still). To know there is a new game being developed with this kind of (old school) game play is a dream I thought would never happen again.

Your team has a unique style of story telling and game design (including super character customization, spells, feats, etc). Not to mention the great voice artists that makes Ice Wind Dale 2 such a memorable experience for me.

 

I know that games such as Project Eternity made by you will be a winner in my eyes, but I do ask one thing... Please make some sort of shape shifter class (playable character). I was disappointed when NWN2 cancelled Master of many shapes prestige class. Lucky the druid class still has many shape changing abilities so it was not a total disappointment.

Also can there be a low magic and high magic setting we can choose when playing. At times I like to play Hard Core with low magic to see how good my character has been put together, and when playing sand box, hack and slash I like high magic to see how "cheesy" I can make my character be.

Best of luck on your efforts to create a great game, I am looking forward to the endless possibilities tools like the NWN 2 toolset give us players as well.

 

 

 

 

[Lephys]

I'm not sure if there'll be a specialization that's just purely about shape-changing, but it would seem from the official info that the Druid class in P:E will, indeed, possess a good bit of shape-changing capability.

 

I believe it's called "spiritshifting"? And, from a strictly physical-form-description aspect, it's more of a hybrid form; instead of simply taking a bear's form, you'll take a bear-like form (if bear is an option, for example).

 

I don't know how helpful that is to you, but definitely check out the threads on druids, if you haven't already.

[TarponCrest]

I'm not sure if there'll be a specialization that's just purely about shape-changing, but it would seem from the official info that the Druid class in P:E will, indeed, possess a good bit of shape-changing capability.

 

I believe it's called "spiritshifting"? And, from a strictly physical-form-description aspect, it's more of a hybrid form; instead of simply taking a bear's form, you'll take a bear-like form (if bear is an option, for example).

 

I don't know how helpful that is to you, but definitely check out the threads on druids, if you haven't already.

Thank you for your reply, I have looked at the “Wiki” and though the information seems in its infancy (as it should at this time), I think there is hope for some way to role play using many attributes and characteristics with one character. I will keep watching for updates. I can't wait!

[Ulquiorra]

I think that shapeshifter shoud be more as "race" rather then class it self, seriously even if a druid can "progres" to a shapeshifter, are you realy think that someone that can change intu everything else is still a "human" ?

[okkoko]

i do like to see shape shifter but i like some shape shifter reactivity like like you could costimiec you own forms dependent on you knowledge in shape shifting

so you could come to look weary unnatural or natural what you like but ones selected you shape shifting shape u cant redo it but you shape shifter form could become powerful the more you invest in them

[TarponCrest]

I think that shapeshifter shoud be more as "race" rather then class it self, seriously even if a druid can "progres" to a shapeshifter, are you realy think that someone that can change intu everything else is still a "human" ?

That would work, sort of like Rakshasa (Dungeons and Dragons). The thing that I like is the ability to use different stats (innately) from different forms, then augmenting it with magic. It is quite fun working out the statistics on paper an then rolling a character all the way to retirment (never the same story with shape-shifters.

[WorstUsernameEver]

The druid has shapeshifting capabilities, though they have said that the animal forms will be anthropomorphic and still get the ability to cast spells. They also called the ability Spiritshift because I guess they were having a terrible day and couldn't think of something better.

[Lephys]

They also called the ability Spiritshift because I guess they were having a terrible day and couldn't think of something better.

It might have something to do with the fact that the ability is more in tune with assuming the spirit of the given animal (since you don't actually assume their entire physical form) and gaining some of its aspects and abilities? *shrug*

 

Plus, you know, it kind of sets it apart from mere transformation magic.

 

"Hi, I'm a druid."

"Oh, hello, I'm a Mage. What do you do?"

"Well, because I'm so attuned to nature, I can shapeshift into a bear."

"Oh? That sounds a lot like my spell, called 'Shapeshift,' which allows me to also turn into a bear."

"Yeah, but mine's totally different, because nature."

"Hmmm... still sounds suspiciously like the same thing to m-"

"*Bears the Mage to death*... What do YOU know?! u_u"

 

[Christliar]

 

They also called the ability Spiritshift because I guess they were having a terrible day and couldn't think of something better.

It might have something to do with the fact that the ability is more in tune with assuming the spirit of the given animal (since you don't actually assume their entire physical form) and gaining some of its aspects and abilities? *shrug*

 

Plus, you know, it kind of sets it apart from mere transformation magic.

 

"Hi, I'm a druid."

"Oh, hello, I'm a Mage. What do you do?"

"Well, because I'm so attuned to nature, I can shapeshift into a bear."

"Oh? That sounds a lot like my spell, called 'Shapeshift,' which allows me to also turn into a bear."

"Yeah, but mine's totally different, because nature."

"Hmmm... still sounds suspiciously like the same thing to m-"

"*Bears the Mage to death*... What do YOU know?! u_u"

 

 

The spell itself (Shapechange) was actually better, because you could change into ANYTHING except deities. It also didn't require you to throw away 10 levels into an honestly ****ty prestige class.

 

I've never found shape shifting done good ever. WoW's was the best, because of the ease-of-transformation, but you still stood in one form for 90% of combat, because of your talents. It always seems that you just gimp yourself rather than being something useful or viable. I'm all for options so I'd LOVE a shape changing class in P:E, I just hope they can do it interestingly.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Christliar

[Lephys]

The spell itself (Shapechange) was actually better, because you could change into ANYTHING except deities. It also didn't require you to throw away 10 levels into an honestly ****ty prestige class.

 

I've never found shape shifting done good ever. WoW's was the best, because of the ease-of-transformation, but you still stood in one form for 90% of combat, because of your talents. It always seems that you just gimp yourself rather than being something useful or viable. I'm all for options so I'd LOVE a shape changing class in P:E, I just hope they can do it interestingly.

 

It'd be interesting, I think, if some form of shape-changing actually resulted in hybrid abilities that were the sort of splicing of your character's existing abilities and those of the animal. In other words, instead of "I'm a wolf now, so I can claw you," you might have something like Burning Hands merged with a claw attack. Maybe the wolf-form gets Flame Maul or something. That way, you're not just a wolf, but you're also not just a caster who happens to be shaped like a wolf for the time being, and happens to get a few benefits (usually HP/armor/speed/damage/attack-type) from that form.

 

Instead of ability-for-ability conversions, it could even be tied to some subset of abilities, like a specialization or magic school. Divination? Your Wolf Form gets Divination Wolf Abilities. Destruction? Your Wolf Form gets Destruction Wolf Abilities. *shrug*. Those could even be further altered/customized via the progression of the Wolf Form ability, modifying feats, etc.

 

I think if a Wizard or Mage (or any class, really), can simply get a single ability or spell that's something like ShapeChange, you should probably just get the benefits of that animal's physical form, and maybe retain your ability to cast some of your spells. But, if the ability to shapechange is a core component of a class, I'm a fan of the "something entirely new/unique" hybridization.

 

Can't wait for more specifics of the Druids' Spiritshift, since it sounds like they're taking the hybridization approach, to some degree at least.

[Christliar]

 

The spell itself (Shapechange) was actually better, because you could change into ANYTHING except deities. It also didn't require you to throw away 10 levels into an honestly ****ty prestige class.

 

I've never found shape shifting done good ever. WoW's was the best, because of the ease-of-transformation, but you still stood in one form for 90% of combat, because of your talents. It always seems that you just gimp yourself rather than being something useful or viable. I'm all for options so I'd LOVE a shape changing class in P:E, I just hope they can do it interestingly.

 

It'd be interesting, I think, if some form of shape-changing actually resulted in hybrid abilities that were the sort of splicing of your character's existing abilities and those of the animal. In other words, instead of "I'm a wolf now, so I can claw you," you might have something like Burning Hands merged with a claw attack. Maybe the wolf-form gets Flame Maul or something. That way, you're not just a wolf, but you're also not just a caster who happens to be shaped like a wolf for the time being, and happens to get a few benefits (usually HP/armor/speed/damage/attack-type) from that form.

 

Instead of ability-for-ability conversions, it could even be tied to some subset of abilities, like a specialization or magic school. Divination? Your Wolf Form gets Divination Wolf Abilities. Destruction? Your Wolf Form gets Destruction Wolf Abilities. *shrug*. Those could even be further altered/customized via the progression of the Wolf Form ability, modifying feats, etc.

 

I think if a Wizard or Mage (or any class, really), can simply get a single ability or spell that's something like ShapeChange, you should probably just get the benefits of that animal's physical form, and maybe retain your ability to cast some of your spells. But, if the ability to shapechange is a core component of a class, I'm a fan of the "something entirely new/unique" hybridization.

 

Can't wait for more specifics of the Druids' Spiritshift, since it sounds like they're taking the hybridization approach, to some degree at least.

 

Being able to transform into animals without much benefit always beguiled me. Here you are a being who can summon lightning storms, implore your deities for life saving healing, bend time and space to your will, your very music inspires extreme potency and competency, but you decide to change into a wolf which can bite and scratch, whoopdi-****ing-do.

 

They have to find a reason for me to want to change into an animal (maybe not an animal? The plot thickens). Since WorstUsernameEver said they are going for anthropomorphic shapes, they have to answer these questions - What do I gain from turning into a werewolf/bear/flea/snake/hedgehog? Can I cast spells in these forms? If yes, why would I leave this form ever? If not, are the gains of this form juicy enough for me to want to be in it? How does the transformation happen - instantly or with some delay? How does this affect combat? Do i benefit the party as a whole by being in this form? Am I just a severely weakened version of some other class? If I'm as strong as them why would anyone pick any other class (I can turn into) ever? etc etc.

 

I'm not really sure how they should go about this. As I said, I don't have a really good example of shape shifting done well, so it's kinda hard. I'm banging my head against the wall on this one and am drawing blanks ;d

Edited August 20, 2013 by Christliar

[Greydragon]

I've said this before in the druid conversation; if you want to make a shapeshifter unique even when at points ANY class can shapeshift then expand the interaction of the ability into dialogue and events, both combat related and non-violent throughout the game. That is something I have never seen in any game; it would greatly enhance the gameplay for the class. A mage with the spell shapeshift may get one or two; druid gets all of them.

[Lephys]

I think this is as specific as the official info gets at the moment:

 

Shapeshifting (for PE druids, it's called Spiritshift) allows druids to turn into anthropomorphized forms, with abilities that are more inspired by the emulated creature rather than literally transforming the druid into that creature.   Druids will always be allowed to continue spellcasting while spiritshifted.  We definitely want it to be an ability you want to use often.

But, it at least sounds like the Druid's forms, at least, will be much more unique than simple animal copies, and won't drop your caster abilities for your SpiritShift form abilities. So, pseudo-shape-shifting will coexist with your abilities, rather than being mutually exclusive, at least.

 

As for the unanswered questions that remain, I guess we'll have to wait and see, . They already seem to have a leg up on a lot of other implementations, though.

 

Also, good idea, Greydragon. Expanding the ability's affects beyond combat would set it apart from the typical implementations pretty quickly.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Lephys

[rjshae]

I've said this before in the druid conversation; if you want to make a shapeshifter unique even when at points ANY class can shapeshift then expand the interaction of the ability into dialogue and events, both combat related and non-violent throughout the game. That is something I have never seen in any game; it would greatly enhance the gameplay for the class. A mage with the spell shapeshift may get one or two; druid gets all of them.

 

A nice touch in DA:O was the Lost in Dreams quest where the main character learns to shapeshift into multiple forms. That was a decent use of the shapeshifting power in that it provided a few interesting tactical options.

[Greydragon]

I talked about that one in the druids thread as well as the lack of shapeshifting opponents in IE games.

[TarponCrest]

 

I've said this before in the druid conversation; if you want to make a shapeshifter unique even when at points ANY class can shapeshift then expand the interaction of the ability into dialogue and events, both combat related and non-violent throughout the game. That is something I have never seen in any game; it would greatly enhance the gameplay for the class. A mage with the spell shapeshift may get one or two; druid gets all of them.

 

A nice touch in DA:O was the Lost in Dreams quest where the main character learns to shapeshift into multiple forms. That was a decent use of the shapeshifting power in that it provided a few interesting tactical options.

 

I must say I am happy to see there is enough interest in shape shifting for other members to discuss it. I am glad because then it may have a chance to make it in the game.

 

The idea  of shape shifting for me in RPG is to infiltrate and assimilate in a manner that avoids conflict directly instead it "tricks" the opponent into thinking you are what you shaped in to. Now the question, is your skill high enough to not get discovered and if discovered will the stats of that shape help you in that particular situation or should you use other shape shifting abilities to win a battle or retreat... etc.

 

The problem is that the AI always knows you are the player and is never fooled thus making only the combat stats be valued when playing, but it could have great appeal and a fresh take if it were to work in no  combat interaction, that would be a great bonus in my eyes, but combat is priority for me if it comes to making a choice due to development limitations.

[TarponCrest]

 

The spell itself (Shapechange) was actually better, because you could change into ANYTHING except deities. It also didn't require you to throw away 10 levels into an honestly ****ty prestige class.

 

I've never found shape shifting done good ever. WoW's was the best, because of the ease-of-transformation, but you still stood in one form for 90% of combat, because of your talents. It always seems that you just gimp yourself rather than being something useful or viable. I'm all for options so I'd LOVE a shape changing class in P:E, I just hope they can do it interestingly.

 

It'd be interesting, I think, if some form of shape-changing actually resulted in hybrid abilities that were the sort of splicing of your character's existing abilities and those of the animal. In other words, instead of "I'm a wolf now, so I can claw you," you might have something like Burning Hands merged with a claw attack. Maybe the wolf-form gets Flame Maul or something. That way, you're not just a wolf, but you're also not just a caster who happens to be shaped like a wolf for the time being, and happens to get a few benefits (usually HP/armor/speed/damage/attack-type) from that form.

 

Instead of ability-for-ability conversions, it could even be tied to some subset of abilities, like a specialization or magic school. Divination? Your Wolf Form gets Divination Wolf Abilities. Destruction? Your Wolf Form gets Destruction Wolf Abilities. *shrug*. Those could even be further altered/customized via the progression of the Wolf Form ability, modifying feats, etc.

 

I think if a Wizard or Mage (or any class, really), can simply get a single ability or spell that's something like ShapeChange, you should probably just get the benefits of that animal's physical form, and maybe retain your ability to cast some of your spells. But, if the ability to shapechange is a core component of a class, I'm a fan of the "something entirely new/unique" hybridization.

 

Can't wait for more specifics of the Druids' Spiritshift, since it sounds like they're taking the hybridization approach, to some degree at least.

 

Wow I do not know all the mechanics that this would take, but this is a great idea! Something new to add to the mix of, stats, abilities, feats, spells, but now becoming a one of a kind hybrid, which is limited only by your imagination and game play style. Nice ideas!

[TarponCrest]

 

 

The spell itself (Shapechange) was actually better, because you could change into ANYTHING except deities. It also didn't require you to throw away 10 levels into an honestly ****ty prestige class.

 

I've never found shape shifting done good ever. WoW's was the best, because of the ease-of-transformation, but you still stood in one form for 90% of combat, because of your talents. It always seems that you just gimp yourself rather than being something useful or viable. I'm all for options so I'd LOVE a shape changing class in P:E, I just hope they can do it interestingly.

 

It'd be interesting, I think, if some form of shape-changing actually resulted in hybrid abilities that were the sort of splicing of your character's existing abilities and those of the animal. In other words, instead of "I'm a wolf now, so I can claw you," you might have something like Burning Hands merged with a claw attack. Maybe the wolf-form gets Flame Maul or something. That way, you're not just a wolf, but you're also not just a caster who happens to be shaped like a wolf for the time being, and happens to get a few benefits (usually HP/armor/speed/damage/attack-type) from that form.

 

Instead of ability-for-ability conversions, it could even be tied to some subset of abilities, like a specialization or magic school. Divination? Your Wolf Form gets Divination Wolf Abilities. Destruction? Your Wolf Form gets Destruction Wolf Abilities. *shrug*. Those could even be further altered/customized via the progression of the Wolf Form ability, modifying feats, etc.

 

I think if a Wizard or Mage (or any class, really), can simply get a single ability or spell that's something like ShapeChange, you should probably just get the benefits of that animal's physical form, and maybe retain your ability to cast some of your spells. But, if the ability to shapechange is a core component of a class, I'm a fan of the "something entirely new/unique" hybridization.

 

Can't wait for more specifics of the Druids' Spiritshift, since it sounds like they're taking the hybridization approach, to some degree at least.

 

Being able to transform into animals without much benefit always beguiled me. Here you are a being who can summon lightning storms, implore your deities for life saving healing, bend time and space to your will, your very music inspires extreme potency and competency, but you decide to change into a wolf which can bite and scratch, whoopdi-****ing-do.

 

They have to find a reason for me to want to change into an animal (maybe not an animal? The plot thickens). Since WorstUsernameEver said they are going for anthropomorphic shapes, they have to answer these questions - What do I gain from turning into a werewolf/bear/flea/snake/hedgehog? Can I cast spells in these forms? If yes, why would I leave this form ever? If not, are the gains of this form juicy enough for me to want to be in it? How does the transformation happen - instantly or with some delay? How does this affect combat? Do i benefit the party as a whole by being in this form? Am I just a severely weakened version of some other class? If I'm as strong as them why would anyone pick any other class (I can turn into) ever? etc etc.

 

I'm not really sure how they should go about this. As I said, I don't have a really good example of shape shifting done well, so it's kinda hard. I'm banging my head against the wall on this one and am drawing blanks ;d

 

Interesting points you make here, I can try and address one. I have played shifters as often as I can ( which for a while there was way to much), and I can say that a good example of a good shifter is a "jack of all trades, master of non",  so in a group especially in epic levels you rely on your team members to get the necessary support or magic or what-not to win the battle and ultimately the quest (game).

 

A shape shifter alone can never get far, that is why in Neverwinter nights it was always seen as an inferior class, because everyone wanted to solo quest with it or duel and well with out the support of your party (team) and a way to keep PC from knowing you are not just another npc but actually a player, well all the power of shape shifting became limited, if not pointless to many players. Specially veteran role-players that can get a pure barbarian and never worry about magic or shape shifting.

 

Shape shifter sits in the field in the shape of a bear and the rest of the bears ( if any in the area) respond to you as if you are not shape shifted, thus so does the barbarian thus you are dead, but for some reason the other bears are friends with the barbarian and leave each other alone. These are the kind of things that make a shape shifter less appealing. Sort of like the thief that can't pickpocket anything because all the npc's are immune to such action. Expert for scripted sections. Well then why specialize in that class if what it is meant to do is limited and it can't fight its way to glory per say...

 

So good shifter is a "jack of all trades" with a few specialized tricks up its sleeve for epic experience. Such as dragon shape shifting and all it's glory. I know sometimes druids do this as well, but shifters should be stronger and be able to last longer in the shapes. Even be able to receive better bonuses when helped (buffed, protected, or tanked )by the party (team).

 

They hybrid idea sounds interesting. It is different and gives something fresh to explore... lets see what the brain storming yields. I hope it will be worthy of putting in the game.

[WotanAnubis]

The druid has shapeshifting capabilities, though they have said that the animal forms will be anthropomorphic and still get the ability to cast spells. They also called the ability Spiritshift because I guess they were having a terrible day and couldn't think of something better.

 

I think they called it Spiritshifting because SOULS while calling it "soulshifting" would imply the caster becoming a different person entirely.

 

This way, the name implies more than a purely physical transformation while also being less than a completely mental one.