Renewed unrest in Egypt

[Nepenthe]

I thought that was you shooting.

 

AGH! We're being shot at!

 

I did ask for some shooters, but honestly had something more along the lines of Jägermeister in mind.

[Meshugger]

Maybe they are just too dumb for democracy. 

 

Reinstate the immortal Pharaoh. Crush the muslims and reinstate slavery. Then the poor will have their proper place in society.

[HoonDing]

I hope the army will go full Atatürk.

[Rostere]

I hope the army will go full Atatürk.

 

You mean full Mubarak? We've already been there...

[Meshugger]

I hope the army will go full Atatürk.

 

...and how! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23173794

 

Morsi is gone.

[Stephen Amber]

I hope someone over there is paying attention to the Cairo national museum this go-around.  A museum broken into during the last revolution and which houses, literally, billions of dollars worth of ancient artifacts.  The gilded treasures of King Tutankhamen alone are virtually priceless.

 

We do not want a repeat of what happened in Baghdad and it's museum which was sacked during the '03 invasion.

[Rostere]

 

I hope the army will go full Atatürk.

 

...and how! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23173794

 

Morsi is gone.

 

 

This is more like the start of a potentially drawn-out conflict.

 

Remember we're talking about a democratically elected leader. Should people overthrow democratically elected leaders when their approval ratings reach 30%?

 

 

I hope someone over there is paying attention to the Cairo national museum this go-around.  A museum broken into during the last revolution and which houses, literally, billions of dollars worth of ancient artifacts.  The gilded treasures of King Tutankhamen alone are virtually priceless.

 

We do not want a repeat of what happened in Baghdad and it's museum which was sacked during the '03 invasion.

 

Ugh, what a nightmare... I do hope the military sends their best and most loyal units to guard it.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Rostere

[Malcador]

Seems from the outside that people are pretty pissed off about him and his policies more than the usual grumbling you'd get here.

[pmp10]

 

 

I hope the army will go full Atatürk.

 

...and how! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23173794

 

Morsi is gone.

 

 

This is more like the start of a potentially drawn-out conflict.

 

Remember we're talking about a democratically elected leader. Should people overthrow democratically elected leaders when their approval ratings reach 30%?

 

With the support of the army and the sheer amount of protesters I doubt the conservative part of Egypt matters at this point.

People will remember it come next election.

Or next revolution if a new liberal government won't deliver.

Edited July 3, 2013 by pmp10

[Walsingham]

With affection, if not respect... I'd rather they used their best units to secure hospitals and arms dumps.

[Rostere]

Seems from the outside that people are pretty pissed off about him and his policies more than the usual grumbling you'd get here.

 

It's doubtful if another president can do things significantly better. The one thing another president could do better is to make better connections with the West, encourage investment and tourism and so on. Certainly, another president can make the people think things look better.

 

I think the central issue is that the MB does not historically have an economic agenda. The emphasis has been on moral conservatism. So people watch their country slide further down into poverty, chaos and sectarian violence while it's leaders debate which clothes you should be allowed to wear, how much you should read the Quran in school, whether or not certain Western cultural phenomena should be banned or not, and so on. "It's the economy, stupid".

 

Apparently we will see early elections, and a transitional government headed by the judicial branch :S

[Walsingham]

The only thing I'm taking comfort in is the hilariously short time the Muslim Brotherhood managed to retain power. After decades saying they had all the answers...

[Labadal]

Watching him speak in Arabic right now. Spouting a horde of bull****. He's finished.

[Rostere]

The only thing I'm taking comfort in is the hilariously short time the Muslim Brotherhood managed to retain power. After decades saying they had all the answers...

 

Well, as you say in Swedish, "Up as a sun, down like a pancake".

[Walsingham]

Can I be honest without shocking you all?

 

I would pay good money to have a TV service which provided live airborne coverage with commentary.

[Rostere]

Can I be honest without shocking you all?

 

I would pay good money to have a TV service which provided live airborne coverage with commentary.

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/watch_now/

 

I think it's the closest you can get, they have live footage from both demonstrations in Cairo and journalists interviewing people at the sites.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Rostere

[Calax]

 

Seems from the outside that people are pretty pissed off about him and his policies more than the usual grumbling you'd get here.

 

It's doubtful if another president can do things significantly better. The one thing another president could do better is to make better connections with the West, encourage investment and tourism and so on. Certainly, another president can make the people think things look better.

 

I think the central issue is that the MB does not historically have an economic agenda. The emphasis has been on moral conservatism. So people watch their country slide further down into poverty, chaos and sectarian violence while it's leaders debate which clothes you should be allowed to wear, how much you should read the Quran in school, whether or not certain Western cultural phenomena should be banned or not, and so on. "It's the economy, stupid".

 

Apparently we will see early elections, and a transitional government headed by the judicial branch :S

 

You say that, but I think part of it is also that Morsi wasn't exactly what you would call... congenial with his population. I mean he did make an attempt to shut down the Daily Show's equivalent because it was poking fun at him. Morsi (From what I've seen) had rose to power by saying "Free speech and free politics for EVERYONE!" and as soon as he got in power he tried to turn the state into something akin to Iran with himself as the Shah.

[ShadySands]

well that escalated quickly

[Walsingham]

well that escalated quickly

 

Hahhaha.

 

Yes, I rather liked the explicit denial that there would be any coup, presumably as they were handing out the ammunition.

[Agiel]

I'm actually very conflicted about this. As much as I abhor what the Salafist and Islamo-fascist groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood stand for, I'm of the belief that rule of law (mind you, secular rule of law) trumps all. The sign of a democracy working as intended is a peaceful handover of power from one administration to the next, though on the other hand as the constitution put forward by the MB-dominated government was tenuous at best (constantly challenged by the Judicial Branch), it may have been seen as justified to completely disregard it given that it plain didn't work in the first place.

 

I can't really speak to what the Egyptians at large think. In the best of worlds they would have waited until however long it took for the next election cycle to come before giving Morsi and his cronies the boot, however it may well have been that if they had done so there wouldn't be much of an Egypt left to salvage for the next administration and congress. 

 

Throughout the entire ordeal since the initial protests calling for Mubarek's ouster, my thoughts always came to a girl in my French Lit class in my freshman year (this was five years ago) who was from Egypt. She lived here long enough that there was no trace of an accent and she always joked that all they are famous for is tourism.

 

Interestingly, one of the leaders of the coup was an officer Morsi himself installed as the head of the military (likely in order to prevent this very turn of events from happening), a man who was on the surface very committed to the Muslim Brotherhood's cause. I'm vaguely reminded of how Francisco Franco had groomed Juan Carlos to keep Spain a fascist state, only for the King to create a constitutional monarchy with him merely as a figurehead the second Franco kicked the bucket.

[Walsingham]

I'd like Agiel to post more often in these threads.

[Rostere]

 

 

Seems from the outside that people are pretty pissed off about him and his policies more than the usual grumbling you'd get here.

 

It's doubtful if another president can do things significantly better. The one thing another president could do better is to make better connections with the West, encourage investment and tourism and so on. Certainly, another president can make the people think things look better.

 

I think the central issue is that the MB does not historically have an economic agenda. The emphasis has been on moral conservatism. So people watch their country slide further down into poverty, chaos and sectarian violence while it's leaders debate which clothes you should be allowed to wear, how much you should read the Quran in school, whether or not certain Western cultural phenomena should be banned or not, and so on. "It's the economy, stupid".

 

Apparently we will see early elections, and a transitional government headed by the judicial branch :S

 

You say that, but I think part of it is also that Morsi wasn't exactly what you would call... congenial with his population. I mean he did make an attempt to shut down the Daily Show's equivalent because it was poking fun at him. Morsi (From what I've seen) had rose to power by saying "Free speech and free politics for EVERYONE!" and as soon as he got in power he tried to turn the state into something akin to Iran with himself as the Shah.

 

 

I don't think he made that kind of promises to begin with. You've got to keep in mind that this entire democracy business happened so abruptly. The common people were standing there asking themselves (much like we're told people did in Russia after Communism) "Who am I supposed to vote for?". The MB was for a lot of years truly a scapegoat in Egyptian politics, and also a symbol of the Sunni Muslim faith, a majority religion in Egypt. Mind you, they are not strictly extremists like the Salafis but their religious beliefs embody what is currently held to be true by the majority of the active belivers among the Egyptian Muslims. They are a rather old organization, focused on social work (much like Hamas was originally known for) and did not prepare to take over power in any particular way.

 

The important judgement of this movement came when they got into power - although they would do certain things to try to improve the economy, they spent their time discussing the proper interpretation of Sharia, lots of small completely irrelevant stuff about conservative moral which would get the country nowhere forward economically. They also worsened the West's opinion and expectations purely by virtue of being Islamist. Tourism and foreign investments plummeted, in this you're right, but I think it needs to be emphasized that the MB was a very well known group critical of Mubarak and military fascism. They did not trick people into voting for them, people only tricked themselves that the best known symbol of resistance against Mubarak would be the best post-revolutionary leader. Clearly they know better now.

 

(It's also awful to compare Mursi to the Shah - a more apt comparison would be one of the MB to the Ayatollah in Iran)

[obyknven]

Egyptian people send warnings to American people.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-07-02/guest-post-egyptians-love-us-our-freedom

Edited July 5, 2013 by obyknven

[Walsingham]

So much for trying to be nice.

[Nepenthe]

Aren't those supposed to be in the 4th of July thread?