Armour & weapon designs - a plea (part IV).

[Rosbjerg]

Old thread here.

 

 

What're the types of armies and tactics in P:E and what types of armour do they elicit?

 

This is what we've seen so far :

 

 

It is my hope that the cultural designs will be in stark contrast to each other. What've seen so far seems to confirm that it'll be the case :

 

 

In addition, here's some more inspirational artwork :

 

 

Lovely detail on the armour.

 

 

 

Really like that Saracen armor and helm. Any of the cultures in PE that would be contiguous with that style though? I've probably stated this before, but I'm a sucker for Outremer and Reconquista imagery.

 

 

 

-awesome image-

Lovely detail on the armour.

Forearm guards? Those are like FIVE-arm guards! And I LOVE them!

(And yes, all the other details, too.)

 

 

[Karranthain]

Previous parts :

1) http://forums.obsidi...designs-a-plea/

2) http://forums.obsidi...a-plea-part-ii/

 

3) http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/62316-armour-weapon-designs-a-plea-part-iii/

Opening post :

 

 

 

One thing that I highly dislike about modern RPGs are the outlandish and outright ugly armour and designs. If you'd allow me some examples (incoming hyperbole and large images) :


This




Certainly looks better than this :



Second example :









In the examples, I've juxtaposed somewhat ornamental and a bit fantasy looking pieces of equipment with ones that look more like toys (which I consider to be a general tendency in fantasy cRPGS). Is the continuing urge for so called "epicness" really worth it? I think there's plenty of historical (and not so historical) arms and armour to draw inspiration from. Non-practical equipment is a real eye sore most of the time, IMHO.

And yes, I realize that the game is isometric, and we won't see arms and armour in great detail - but that'll only make the task that much easier.

While we're at it, please consider using something similar for item descriptions :

 

 

 

[Karranthain]

This topic has undergone some changes since it first appeared on these forums; it evolved to become a place to dicuss various influences for armour & weapon designs. Feel free to share artwork, pictures etc. that you find appealing. If there's something that you'd want to see/not see in the PE, join the discussion!

A clarification on my stance : I'm definitely not advocating complete realism. Historical designs are, I think, a good source of inspiration, but it doesn't mean they have to be copied slavishly - taking bits and pieces out of history and using them creatively can produce very interesting results. In short - verisimilitude, not necessarily realism.

And to end this little introduction, here's a quote from one of the developers :
 

I agree with you on all points. I'll make sure to take the spongy Mjolnir I have in my office and smite any artist who dares create unwieldy-looking weapons or crazy, S&M, cosplay outfits . In all seriousness, I have a sneaking suspicion you'll be quite pleased with the art direction and thematic flavor of the gear in Project Eternity.

[Jarmo]

  

 

 

 

 

  

I agree with you on all points. I'll make sure to take the spongy Mjolnir I have in my office and smite any artist who dares create unwieldy-looking weapons or crazy, S&M, cosplay outfits . In all seriousness, I have a sneaking suspicion you'll be quite pleased with the art direction and thematic flavor of the gear in Project Eternity.

 

 

 

I'll take the opportunity of a new thread to reiterate my willingness to see the above "armor" example in PE.

Not as a functional armor that'd give functional plate protection, but as something a spellcasting succubus would wear.

"Oh come now, do you really want to hit me with that nasty sword, wouldn't you rather rip this armor off me and spank me with your wet mjölnir?"

 

Because I'd totally fall for it, even if I knew it's a succubus...

 

On a second note, Mount & Blade: With Fire & Sword has loads of awesome designs. In timeline slightly later than what PE has,

but nothing that'd completely stand out as anachronistic to me. Especially considering how the designs were all over the place in real history.

 

Winged Hussars have been mentioned before, as the most awesomely bad ass dudes of all time,

but I'm also a fan of Swedish Cuirassiers. With breastplates, musket pistols and ... hmm.. don't know the name, but with wide brim slightly cowboy style hats.

Or Scottish swordsmen with full breastplates, but substituting helmets with their ever fashionable baskers.

[John Forseti]

Are there any more informations or concepts on what the more "magey" classes will be getting? If I remember right there arent class restrictions on armor but no doubt encumbrance penalties or some such may be a factor.

 

I saw an encouraging concept reposted toward the end of the last thread, but I worry it might be an exception and the fantasy staple of massive elaborate ankle-length dresses will be the norm.

[Merlkir]

There was the Aumaua wizard. (I can't link to the image I found for some reason. Just google "aumaua".)

[Karranthain]

We were wondering just how detailed the designs could be in PE, here's our answer :

 

 

 

In short : quite detailed indeed; that opens up a lot of possibilites. I'd say they could easily recreate even this armour.

And I'm very happy to see that they're indeed aiming for a more down to earth look.

[Karranthain]

Are there any more informations or concepts on what the more "magey" classes will be getting? If I remember right there arent class restrictions on armor but no doubt encumbrance penalties or some such may be a factor.

 

I saw an encouraging concept reposted toward the end of the last thread, but I worry it might be an exception and the fantasy staple of massive elaborate ankle-length dresses will be the norm.

 

Indeed, you'll be free to wear anything you want as a wizard (whether it'll be optimal to use plate as a magic user is an entirely different matter though).

 

And if Aloth's concept art is anything to go by, the dresses won't be the norm. Here's what we've seen so far :

 

 

Edited June 27, 2013 by Karranthain

[John Forseti]

Trousers! I'm so happy I could cry!

[Lephys]

Trousers! I'm so happy I could cry!

Are you specifically referring to trousers, or is "trousers!" just one of your own personal forms of excited/astonished outburst? You know, like "Croikey!", or "By the Power of GREYskull...!"

 

We were wondering just how detailed the designs could be in PE, here's our answer :

 

-screenshot-

 

 

In short : quite detailed indeed; that opens up a lot of possibilites. I'd say they could easily recreate even this armour.

And I'm very happy to see that they're indeed aiming for a more down to earth look.

OMG! That Dwarf's (I'm assuming it's a Dwarf) hand TOTALLY isn't even clasped around that axe shaft! How do I cancel my Kickstarter funding in over-reaction?!

 

I kid. It's just like... combo-funny that that's both amazing that you can see that because of the level of detail, AND that some people actually freak out about such things in friggin' pre-production screenshots. ^_^

[OldRPG'sAreGood]

I wouldn't helmets like that, with a nice mix of pompousness and simple functionality. 

 

And black&gold armor? Gotta love that: 

[Jarmo]

 

I wouldn't helmets like that, with a nice mix of pompousness and simple functionality. 

 

BTW, it was just the other day when playing M&B:Fire&Sword I realized the "nose-piece" in these kinds of helmets is movable (not in game though).

So you can rise it out of the way to a kind of a decorative plume in normal use and lower to give slashing protection when going into combat.

 

Seriously simple and clever thing, yet it took about a 2000 years of helmet use to be invented.

[lolaldanee]

some halfplates:

 

 

renaissance full plate:

 

armour like that should cost a fortune in game, even if not magic, it had been insanely expensive to produce back then

 

scale:

Edited June 28, 2013 by lolaldanee

[Tsuga C]

^  I believe that last one is brigandine, not scale.  Scale armor consists of overlapping metal scales attached to light leather.  Those "scales" are attached to one another and do not appear to overlap.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Tsuga C

[Merlkir]

It's called "not very well designed fantasy thing", not a brigandine. ;P  

[lolaldanee]

erm, no? it's real armour

there simply are two types of scale armour: one where scales are overlapping and fastened on leather beneath, and the type you see here, where scales are connected by bits of mail

this type of armour is also called lamellar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamellar_armour

look at the hourse armour above, it's exactly the same thing

Edited June 28, 2013 by lolaldanee

[Merlkir]

Nope, not lamellar. 

 

a) it's shown with a vaguely norman-looking helmet (with a late bascinet type nose guard, confusingly), but it's not a historical design, most definitely not something a norman knight would wear.

b) the lamels in a lamellar suit overlap as well 

 

You see this type of "armour" in movies quite often, because it's easier and cheaper to manufacture without having to figure out real historical designs. You just cut out bits of metal, drill holes and tie them together. One of the core principles of scale/lamellar is the overlap of pieces, you have none of that with a design like that.

 

While we're at it, a brigandine has some overlap as well and the pieces are riveted to the inside of a leather jacket, not chain-linked to each other.

[Karranthain]

To add more colour (and cloaks!) to the topic :

 

 

Edited June 28, 2013 by Karranthain

[John Forseti]

 

Trousers! I'm so happy I could cry!

Are you specifically referring to trousers, or is "trousers!" just one of your own personal forms of excited/astonished outburst? You know, like "Croikey!", or "By the Power of GREYskull...!"

 

 

An outburst of trousers is generally considered to be unfavourable, so it is indeed a reference to the article of clothing as displayed in the artworks rather than a general ejaculation.

[Karranthain]

And more Eastern Roman designs :

 

[Gumbercules]

The Byzantine armor could work quite well for the Ixamitl people, since their normal clothing seems to be a mixture of Mesoamerican coloration/decoration and Balkan dress. You could easily incorporate elements of Aztec eagle and jaguar warriors, for example, into the Byzantine designs without it looking out of place.

[Archmage Silver]

While we're discussing armors, I'd like to draw your attention to some mage "armor" (or robes). Sometimes you'd like something better looking than your average bathrobe, so how about adding more variety to robes? I know Obsidian knows how to do it right. It would make sense for different races/cultures to have their own designs as well. Also hats. With feathers.

 

Edited June 29, 2013 by Archmage Silver

[Diagoras]

Use of "Byzantine" is an Imperial offense, citizen. The Roman Empire transcends the Queen of Cities, and encompasses all of Christendom - even those that have fallen into the so-called Catholic heresy.

 

As the Vailian Republic has an Iberian vibe, this is my take on their soldiers - pikes and arquebusiers are included, but the emphasis is on the adventurous rodeleros who fight with sword and shield.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2013 by Diagoras

[Karranthain]

The Byzantine armor could work quite well for the Ixamitl people, since their normal clothing seems to be a mixture of Mesoamerican coloration/decoration and Balkan dress. You could easily incorporate elements of Aztec eagle and jaguar warriors, for example, into the Byzantine designs without it looking out of place.

 

Definitely, the West meets East feel that the Eastern Romans had would work quite nicely. Case in point :

 

 

 

While we're discussing armors, I'd like to draw your attention to some mage "armor" (or robes). Sometimes you'd like something better looking than your average bathrobe, so how about adding more variety to robes? I know Obsidian knows how to do it right. It would make sense for different races/cultures to have their own designs as well. Also hats. With feathers.

 

Speaking of which, I've found an interesting painting; I think this design would fit a wizard perfectly :

 

 

It does look rather stately, doesn't it?

Edited June 30, 2013 by Karranthain

[Jarmo]

When speaking of byzantines all the time, I'd love to see Greek Fire flamethrowers.

 

Total War image: 

 

 

And not half bad looking armors either. I love the faceplate style of the first image.

 

--

Yeah TW series is not a golden benchmark for historical accuracy, but I gather these things existed and at least could exist,

which should be good enough for a CRPG.

 

A firearm, costs something, ammo costs plenty something. Casts an equivalent of burning hands.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Jarmo