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J.E. Sawyer

Constructed Languages and Intuitive *~ Culture Feels ~*

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I don't mind if the words' spelling cause those words to be difficult to figure out how to pronounce. The spelling fitting the language is partly what makes it distinct, and usually the time that pronunciation is a problem for me is when I have to actually say the term in conversation, which is a minor inconvenience.

 

I do appreciate avoiding intuitively ridiculous sounding names, though - like "bean," in what's generally referred to it. Bean wouldn't be a problem, if it was said in a voiced line once or twice, or the player was told in writing how it was pronounced. It's a problem because of the way the mind would tend to imagine it, so establishing it sets it straight. Or helps, at least.

 

Maybe an extra that fans could buy would be a guide book on all the constructed language's words, any slang, and how to pronounce them. ;]

 

 

Thanks much for posting about these details, I've always been a big fan of fleshed out worlds, and it's cool to see that effort brought into realizing them.

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I don't mind if I get the pronunciation 'right' but it's nice if I can at least read it in some way (so not the Thsxglshjnce kind of names).

{example in point: Even with a pronunciation guide at the back of the book, I still mentally pronounce the Queen of Andor as [morGAHsa] rather than [morGAZE]}

Edited by Silent Winter
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I don't mind if I get the pronunciation 'right' but it's nice if I can at least read it in some way (so not the Thsxglshjnce kind of names).

{example in point: Even with a pronunciation guide at the back of the book, I still mentally pronounce the Queen of Andor as [morGAHsa] rather than [morGAZE]}

The Wheel of Time has several of those oddities. I read a decent bit before actually checking the back of the book, and never ONCE did I think to pronounce "Nynaeve" as "NIGH-neev." 8P

 

As with the example of Morgase, though, I think most of the stuff in there was at least close enough/readable enough so as not to cause major problems. Some of the Old Tongue stuff was a bit hard to wrap my tongue around, I suppose. But that was supposed to be a bit foreign even to the characters.


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Lately i've been thinking about dialects and accents, not jusr for the denizens of the world to enrich the cultural feel, but for our protagonist so that our character seems a little more grounded in the world and less formal, for want of a better word.

 

Something to think about for a future game perhaps, a hardy plain speaking Dyrwood frontiersmans rough drawl, a Vaillian merchants exotic but impeccable pronunciation, a haughty Aedyreans sneering contempt or a Glenfathans rich brogue for instance. Perhaps selectable like the excellent soundsets of Icewind Dale 1&2?

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I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

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I had a little idear. 

 

There would probably be people in this world who studied thoose langueges, there could be some ingame books to be found, with wider in-depth look into pronuncation and

other things. Mb in a larger city could  be an university or libary where one could look for that kind of books.

Edited by Talas_Is_Taken
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When you see something written in Irish, there's little doubt what language you're looking at, but the pronunciation will quite often not be "right" in your head.  As it applies to the languages, names, etc. in Project Eternity, how much do you care about the intuitive pronunciation of our conlangs?

 

You mean how much I care if I can immediately figure out how to pronounce something correctly or not and how long it takes me to grasp it's correct pronounciation?

 

Omfg, NERDS!! Who cares if we get it wrong? I feel like people often forget the purpose of a language is to express oneself, and that doing so is possible even with heavy mispronounciations. This reminds me of how I cannot for the life of me find a Dark Souls video covering Ornstein and Smough and for some reason everyone has to fight about how to pronounce Smough as if it were the most important thing ever. Then Artorias of the Abyss came out, Gough said his own name for us, and there was world peace amongst the lands and there was much rejoicing.

 

Live and learn, and it could be kinda cool to have tiny little references to real world languages from which to learn and get a feel from. I'm pretty sure I can intuitively pronounce words from a lot of languages I don't even speak, and I'd imagine that has something to do with some games I played as a child.

 

  Besides, I for one liked your little real-world language references in Honest Hearts. As a German-American dual-citizen who owned the German copy first (forces German language on you...) and later bought an english copy, I was doing little double-takes when I realized the Dead Horses were still speaking "German" even in my english copy. Played games with my head; the kind I get when I go to the Netherlands and my mind is screaming "OMG IS THAT ENGLISH OR IS THAT GERMAN," but it was pretty cool and a nice little extra touch for German speakers.


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It might be interesting if you could actually go into one or more libraries (or simply happen upon book collections) throughout the game, and read books on the various languages. Just as sort of extraneous lore, but useful and interesting extraneous lore (with pronunciation lessons and such).


Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Personally, I'm not sure. I don't mind pronounciation per se, but when I see names like 'K'hyyyktsheszmri', I just stop reading and roll my eyes.

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I think it might be a fun mini game to find relics or "Cyphers" that are keys to unlock puzzles or secret doors, and you can use the mini game as a way to teach us the proper way to speak it. I'm glad to see your thought process and happy to have some interesting breadth and depth of the races in the world.

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When you see something written in Irish, there's little doubt what language you're looking at, but the pronunciation will quite often not be "right" in your head.  As it applies to the languages, names, etc. in Project Eternity, how much do you care about the intuitive pronunciation of our conlangs?

 

You mean how much I care if I can immediately figure out how to pronounce something correctly or not and how long it takes me to grasp it's correct pronounciation?

 

Omfg, NERDS!! Who cares if we get it wrong? I feel like people often forget the purpose of a language is to express oneself, 

 

 

The purpose of languages in gaming is also one of communication. Take the welsh language for instance. Complicated as hell to pronounce correctly and thus even harder to remember. If you have things that are weirdly pronounced, that may turn off many people or bug them in many ways.


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This subject is a very interesting one, to say the least. Very cool to see what you're going for.

 

As for the languages, I guess I will be a bit annoyed if I won't be able to pronounce them right xD I'll probably just glance over them quickly and retain them as written, but won't really pronounce them in my head. Or it will just be a very very wrong pronounciation.

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Keep the aggravating conlangs to a minumum. Write things phonetically and we'll all be better off. Samhain being spoken as "sah-wen" and sidhe being pronounced "she" is more than a little irritating. I wouldn't want to have to wade through much of that sort of thing in something that's supposed to be entertainment.

Edited by Tsuga C

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