Which IE game do you want Eternity to most "feel" like?

[Woldan]

Voted Baldur's Gate, but ideally PE should have Baldur's Gates freedom, conversations and quest structure plus Icewind Dales atmosphere, art, soundtrack and combat.

[teknoman2]

damn... i got so many games to play (the 2 iwd among them and i have to finish nwn2 that i left near the end so i can play motb). i wonder if i can finish them all before wasteland 2 comes out (backer inside)... then, by the time i finish it, divinity: original sin will be ready and by the time i finish that, there will probably be time to play eternity and torment... i have to quit my job and be a 24/7 gamer

[jamoecw]

 

IWD = sandbox ? what

Maybe he mixed up BG and IWD, although calling BG a sandbox might be a bit of a stretch.

 

well in BG you get one character, which has a preset past, the personality of you characters are what you say they are, etc.

same thing in P:T, one character, same backstory no matter what.

 

ya i know not much in the way of sandbox, but IE engine had trouble with sandbox elements in game, the engine was mainly dialog triggers.  think about all of the mods, and how many have made any sort of procedurally generated quest area.  not one, even though in NWN there are a few, even one of the premium DLCs was a procedurally generated dungeon.  there is a whole genre behind procedurally generated dungeons, there is demand but no mods for BG, due to the fact that the IE can't handle it very well (the expansions tried this to a limited extent).  though keep in mind that back then sandbox generally meant void of scripted events and story.

 

in BG just about every action you took altered your lawful good standing, in IWD you could do what you want, and generally if you felt it was keeping with your character you could do it, not so much by what ever somebody had determined your character would justify it as.  think of it as you facing a dialog choice as to whether to allow a zombie to live that isn't causing harm, they are automatically evil, so letting it live would be considered evil by BG standards the developers would determine whether or not killing the zombie would be good or evil, DnD rule of thumb would be that it is neutral to evil to let it live, and neutral to good to kill it.  if you see it as cruel to kill it and you let it live with some plan to keep it from doing harm in the future, if this is at odds with what the developers thought then you end up having to deal with whatever they thought of at the time they developed it.  maybe you get good points and end up having to deal with the fallout of a zombie rampage because they thought you were ignorant of the dangers, or maybe you get bad points because they felt you knew of the dangers and didn't care, or maybe you get another dialog option to help out with what the devs were thinking.  it is poor DMing, which is fine because there is no DM in place, but in IWD you are not penalized for what the devs think or don't think, so definitely more sandbox than BG.

 

so as far as IE games go:

IWD = sandbox (consequence free environment)

BG = atmosphere (choices leading to consequence, banter, etc.)

P:T = interactive novel (lots of description and other text)

 

but ya, hard to think of the IE games as 'sandbox' by today's standards.

[WotanAnubis]

This is something I can't really put into words, so I shall put it into music instead.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsX5GoK-j_A

 

Mystical. Dreamlike. Beautiful. Melancholic.

 

I'm not looking for harsh reality. I want something with softer edges.

 

Which is not say I want it bland and inoffensive. Just something that isn't... I dunno... crude.

 

Should've just stuck with the music.

[WDeranged]

Originally I wanted it to be the new Torment so I've voted that way...regardless I'm totally fine with what it's going to be, I'm just happy to be a part of Obsidian making a text heavy RPG.

[Felithvian]

Neither of them. In terms of religion, Im kinda tired of "Godlike" figues, statue worshippers & other bizarre beliefs.
 

I want crystal clear White vs Black. Grey isn't a colour. It's the absence of color, since it's neither white nor black. In the spectrum of colors, you go from black, which is a false color (Satan's "Free Will"), all the way through to white, which is every color (Father & Son). A paladin should never be forced into a grey situation where nothing seems what it looks like, ala The Witcher series or any other IE game we played in the past.

 

We're either Devils or Saints, no such thing as a middle point.

 

So, technically... not that it really matters - but grey isn't a color.
 

Edited June 8, 2013 by Felithvian

[Iron_JG]

Neither of them. In terms of religion, Im kinda tired of "Godlike" figues, statue worshippers & other bizarre beliefs.

 

I want crystal clear White vs Black. Grey isn't a colour. It's the absence of color, since it's neither white nor black. In the spectrum of colors, you go from black, which is a false color (Satan's "Free Will"), all the way through to white, which is every color (Father & Son). A paladin should never be forced into a grey situation where nothing seems what it looks like, ala The Witcher series or any other IE game we played in the past.

 

We're either Devils or Saints, no such thing as a middle point.

 

So, technically... not that it really matters - but grey isn't a color.

 

Just ... no. Morally simple situations can be gripping, but not intellectually stimulating. Having 'pure' characters or forces of good and evil is useful in some cases, but they greatly limit roleplaying and what stories you can tell. Morality is always a quagmire of context, and stories are more interesting, and honestly, realistic, when good actions often advance lesser evils and vice versa. Paladins, in particular, are fun to play because what is good and what is lawful easily conflict with one another. They are compelling because they acquire guilt and bear the burden of enforcing a rigid code on an ill-defined world. Even a paladin killing enemies, whether another human or just a goblin, is a morally gray action. In these games, lethal combat, I remind everyone, occurs out of circumstance and not a careful, methodical weighing of who deserves to die and who doesn't. My paladin in BG2 doubtlessly cut down some bandits that could have been redeemed, but, lacking the ability to safely restrain, send to trial, and reform all of them, I just killed them. Do you think that same problem won't exist in PE?

 

Juggling the interplay between flawed heroes and sympathetic villains is much of what offers a compelling spectrum of roleplaying options, and engaging storytelling in general. I do acknowledge that Witcher is very dark, darker than I'd like PE to be, but it's still a very good story that's enhanced by the frustrating hunt for the lesser evil among many great ones.

 

As to what I want PE to emulate, it's BG2, and not necessarily BG, hands down. BG2 had a sweeping story with excellent characters and a great villain. It had the best balance of personal yet epic I've seen in a game. IWD lacked the same pedigree of story and character, and while I enjoyed IWD2, it's still BG2 hands down for style and tone. As others have said, Tides of Numenera has Planescape: Torment covered.

[exodiark]

I think it's kinda confirmed they'll go for NWN/Baldur's Gate High Fantasy Style, but maybe there will be one or two eccentric areas that will remind us of Planescape.

I do hope that the story is a mix of Bioware's save the world and Obsidian's personal stories ("you were what? shot in the head?")

[FlintlockJazz]

I want it to have it's own atmosphere and feeling.  Of course, the kickstarter was sold to us on the premise that it would be like the old IE games, but that does not mean it can't make it's own themes and style, especially since the IE games themselves were so different to one another.

 

As to the discussion about white, black and grey morality: having a white and black morality is very limiting, and is usually the morality of the developers or D&D alignment system type of morality, and I often feel like I am being preached to in such games that I must adhere to someone else's concept of right and wrong.  On the other hand, grey choices are often perceived as requiring no easy answer, that everything must come at a cost blah blah blah and often feel forced too, trying to make you choose between two things only because it's been cornily set up to be like that, see Virmire choice as an example of this bollocks.  This is not what grey choices in my mind should be, rather they should be a choice of what you or your character believes to be the right thing.

[Archmage Silver]

BG series - we've already got lil' something like Torment coming up from a certain developer...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Neither of them. In terms of religion, Im kinda tired of "Godlike" figues, statue worshippers & other bizarre beliefs.

 

I want crystal clear White vs Black. Grey isn't a colour. It's the absence of color, since it's neither white nor black. In the spectrum of colors, you go from black, which is a false color (Satan's "Free Will"), all the way through to white, which is every color (Father & Son). A paladin should never be forced into a grey situation where nothing seems what it looks like, ala The Witcher series or any other IE game we played in the past.

 

We're either Devils or Saints, no such thing as a middle point.

 

So, technically... not that it really matters - but grey isn't a color.

0/10

 

Total failure. Perhaps you might have better luck using either your obyknven of Lord of Flies accounts.

[bonarbill]

 

Neither of them. In terms of religion, Im kinda tired of "Godlike" figues, statue worshippers & other bizarre beliefs.

 

I want crystal clear White vs Black. Grey isn't a colour. It's the absence of color, since it's neither white nor black. In the spectrum of colors, you go from black, which is a false color (Satan's "Free Will"), all the way through to white, which is every color (Father & Son). A paladin should never be forced into a grey situation where nothing seems what it looks like, ala The Witcher series or any other IE game we played in the past.

 

We're either Devils or Saints, no such thing as a middle point.

 

So, technically... not that it really matters - but grey isn't a color.

 

Just ... no. Morally simple situations can be gripping, but not intellectually stimulating. Having 'pure' characters or forces of good and evil is useful in some cases, but they greatly limit roleplaying and what stories you can tell. Morality is always a quagmire of context, and stories are more interesting, and honestly, realistic, when good actions often advance lesser evils and vice versa. Paladins, in particular, are fun to play because what is good and what is lawful easily conflict with one another. They are compelling because they acquire guilt and bear the burden of enforcing a rigid code on an ill-defined world. Even a paladin killing enemies, whether another human or just a goblin, is a morally gray action. In these games, lethal combat, I remind everyone, occurs out of circumstance and not a careful, methodical weighing of who deserves to die and who doesn't. My paladin in BG2 doubtlessly cut down some bandits that could have been redeemed, but, lacking the ability to safely restrain, send to trial, and reform all of them, I just killed them. Do you think that same problem won't exist in PE?

 

Juggling the interplay between flawed heroes and sympathetic villains is much of what offers a compelling spectrum of roleplaying options, and engaging storytelling in general. I do acknowledge that Witcher is very dark, darker than I'd like PE to be, but it's still a very good story that's enhanced by the frustrating hunt for the lesser evil among many great ones.

 

As to what I want PE to emulate, it's BG2, and not necessarily BG, hands down. BG2 had a sweeping story with excellent characters and a great villain. It had the best balance of personal yet epic I've seen in a game. IWD lacked the same pedigree of story and character, and while I enjoyed IWD2, it's still BG2 hands down for style and tone. As others have said, Tides of Numenera has Planescape: Torment covered.

 

 

Agreed.  I'm really sick and tired of the so call grey cliches that every one is obsess with these days for the sake of being "edgy" and "thought provoking".

Edited June 10, 2013 by bonarbill

[eschaton]

 

Agreed.  I'm really sick and tired of the so call grey cliches that every one is obsess with these days for the sake of being "edgy" and "thought provoking".

 

I could be wrong, but I think the direction they're going to go is more akin to Arcanum or Fallout, where the questions of "good or evil" won't even enter into it.  There won't be focus on shades of grey because the point of the game isn't to subvert the trope, but to sideline it entirely.  Instead, you'll play who you wish, and align with whatever faction you wish, all of which will be shown to be roughly as ambiguous as factions in the real world will be.  

[Labadal]

I want a personal story like the one in Torment, I want great combat like in IWD and I want a lot of story and quests like in BG2.

[Sylvanpyxie]

For me, Icewind Dale falls short on a lot of things, but I genuinely believe it's the IE Game with the greatest atmosphere and the deepest sense of feeling.

 

Planescape has good atmosphere, but I can never decide if I'm just feeling overwhelmed by the unique setting of the game.

Baldur's Gate has great story, but in all honesty the overall feel of the game felt incredibly samey... 

 

'Course, that's just me.

[teknoman2]

a paladin is the kind of guy who will kill an innocent and peaceful orc just for being an orc (in his 1 dimentional point of view, orc=evil... no ifs no buts). a game in which everything is black and white, would mean you can either be a paladin or a vilain... a good example of that kind of setting is pokemon