Will interactions have cutscenes or just dialogue windows?

[Fatback]

Don't touch me I'm very important

[eLeF]

If no proper voice acting there should atleast be an option to change the text size so it would be easier for people to read all that dialoge. Id hate to sacrifice the resolution just to have everything bigger

[Bryy]

I'm going to buy the game either way, but I'd like to know in advance which it is so I don't get my hopes up.

 

When you interact and talk with NPCs in PE, will it be more like NWN2/Dragon Age/Mass Effect, with zoomed-in cutscenes? Or will it be more like the Infinity Engine games and NWN1, where you stay at the same view level and just have dialogue boxes pop up? I'm assuming the latter since it's probably a whole lot cheaper.

 

On a related note, to what extent will there be voiceovers? Full voiceovers are probably out too, like cutscenes, right? So like the Infinity Engine games, we'll have what, the first line voiceovered, and the rest of the dialogue just in mute text? Will companions have catchphrases like Minsc or will they be fully mute?

I don't know why people like getting upset over things that they know are not going to happen based on prior information.

[teknoman2]

If no proper voice acting there should atleast be an option to change the text size so it would be easier for people to read all that dialoge. Id hate to sacrifice the resolution just to have everything bigger

this in not a 1999 game played on a 2009 screen. back at the time the most comon screen resolutions were 640x480 or 800x600 (1024x768 was for the rich) so the game was designed around them. they werent exactly thinking that 10 years later people will be playing it on 1920x1080. and since that is the standard resolution these days, there wont be a problem for a few years. besides today we have rendering tecniques and the hardware to execute them that back then were not possible, so making it all change size to match the resolution automatically is easy

Edited May 11, 2014 by teknoman2

[Kjaamor]

I think Obsidian might be overlooking a vast untapped resource.  Lephys makes a great point, plenty of fans would be willing to do voice overs for free (or some novelty payment like an NPC with their name).   The could put out a few lines of sample dialogue, and ask people to send sound recordings of themselves voicing it, with the signed agreement that they will not be paid for any voicing used.  The cost associated with it would be paying someone to sift through the videos and find the decent ones.  The people picked could be contacted for more lines.  Would work just fine for minor NPC's, and you really only need first line and one line voice overs to get the feel.

 

I'm sure there are more complications, but its an untapped resource nonetheless. 

 

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[Zwiebelchen]

I really hope for pseudo-cutscenes in isometric game-view just like the old JRPGs did. Imho that's the best way to spice up dialogue and making the player not want to skip it without voiceover.

 

I posted that in the pitfalls thread, but here's a quote for you guys, just because I feel it summarizes what I hope PoE dialogue would be:

 

 

 

Yes, I know this goes against the spirit of the IE games and may cause hardcore roleplayers to beat me with their plastic figurines, but with a game that is announced to have no voice-over, I just don't want to read three pages of text for every random NPC I talk to.

 

This does not say I want meaningless dialogue or no choices; hell no! I just want NPCs to threat me like the busy adventurer I am and go straight to be point.

 

A well written interactive story provides narrative by a combination of text, actions, art and mechanics. A game is not a book. I'm totally fine with reading a book when I'm actually reading a book. But a game is an interactive medium that has so many other ways of delivering a message. At the very least, if you have a lot of information for the player to swallow, chop it up into smaller pieces by good quest design. There's no reason a questgiver should give me lengthy background lore on a temple to investigate when I can be presented with that lore in a more interesting way (for example, by solving a puzzle).

 

This is one of the things that old JRPGs just did right. While they suck at making dialogue matter (since basicly, your protagonist auto-talks without any choice), they excel at presenting both lore and relevant information in a usually straight-to-the-point and interesting fashion.

I NEVER skipped dialogue in games like FF7, even if there was no voice-over at all.

 

I think a huge part of why JRPGs are so good at delivering dialogue that nobody skips is, that the dialogue is presented in huge letters on the screen to allow them to be seen on the low-resolution TVs of past days. This forced writers to compress information into very few lines and use other means to give information. The most famous one being the "flashback cutscene":

A lot of old JRPGs did that. Instead of the generic villager telling you that he wants to seek revenge for his killed sister, you actually see a cinematic (with a color filter or something indicating that it's a flashback) of soldiers breaking into her home and murdering her.

I just don't understand why modern RPGs totally neglect this way of presenting narrative. And you don't even need fancy 3D cinematics to do something like that. Old console games always had such cinematics in isometric perspective and it totally worked.

If 20 year old games can do that, I don't see why PoE can't.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Zwiebelchen

[Infinitron]

“If you don’t like to read, don’t play this game”

 

-Josh Sawyer, project director and lead designer

Edited May 13, 2014 by Infinitron

[Kjaamor]

The jrpg model mentioned above, for all I love it and it is dear to my heart, generally serves better for interactive novels than western rpgs.

 

More to the point, I don't think that PoE could use such a system and maintain that it is keeping the infinity engine feel. It's all well and good taking mechanics that followed the infinity engine games (Or is it? The debate continues), but to take mechanics that precede it is likely to raise more than a few grumbles.

 

Personally, I'd be happy with it, but I feel certain I'd be in the minority.

[Jarmo]

Nevermind the voice-overs and zooming in, I'm betting there'll be more than a few cutscenes anyway.

Meaning, the control is wrestled from the player for the duration. 

 

It's just easier to handle situations where the bad guy comes in, makes a few boasts and then walks away.

Without a cutscene, the players are wont to hack away at Mr. Evil with all the panoply of war.

[Malekith]

Nevermind the voice-overs and zooming in, I'm betting there'll be more than a few cutscenes anyway.

Meaning, the control is wrestled from the player for the duration. 

 

It's just easier to handle situations where the bad guy comes in, makes a few boasts and then walks away.

Without a cutscene, the players are wont to hack away at Mr. Evil with all the panoply of war.

They should make them skipable after the first time. There is nothing more annoying than BG2's in game cutscenes and dream sequences after the second playthrough

Edited May 13, 2014 by Malekith

[Sensuki]

To be fair though BG2's were pretty cool. I didn't have much of a problem with them, perhaps only the one after the Gaelan Bayle convo in Chapter 1.

[Malekith]

To be fair though BG2's were pretty cool. I didn't have much of a problem with them, perhaps only the one after the Gaelan Bayle convo in Chapter 1.

I liked them myself. But  now (many playthroughs later) i just roll my eyes and wish them to end

[Zwiebelchen]

The jrpg model mentioned above, for all I love it and it is dear to my heart, generally serves better for interactive novels than western rpgs.

 

More to the point, I don't think that PoE could use such a system and maintain that it is keeping the infinity engine feel. It's all well and good taking mechanics that followed the infinity engine games (Or is it? The debate continues), but to take mechanics that precede it is likely to raise more than a few grumbles.

 

Personally, I'd be happy with it, but I feel certain I'd be in the minority.

 

We actually have this to a certain extend in BG2. Remember f.ex. the dream sequences. I think the same mechanic could be used in NPC dialogue to make it more interesting (have the ordinary text UI interrupt the cinematic to progress dialogue between cutscene-chops).

Reading text is fine for me. But it should still be presented in an interesting way. It's 2014, after all.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Zwiebelchen

[Kjaamor]

Baldur's Gate II used this sparingly in order to create a narrative. It also used the system primarily to define events where a lack of player agency in the dialogue made sense (i.e. Irenicus-led dreams, Irenicus and Imoen alone, etc).

 

Control over the dialogue is a key feature to the IE games, and when you ask people here which IE game they think had the best dialogue/writing then they almost inevitably answer 'PS:T' (As an aside, I maintain that Fallout 2, although not an IE game, was far better in this regard, but w/e). People are looking for more control of the dialogue, and less automation. As I say, the format you describe is more suited to interactive fiction than western rpgs.

 

Again, we can wait and see what people say, but I suspect that the majority of people - and unquestionably the vocal majority of people - would prefer something that was closer to the IE way of doing things.

[Lephys]

If you're character's wielding a bladed weapon, will not every combat encounter be a "cut scene"?

[Mor]

When you interact and talk with NPCs in PE, will it be more like NWN2/Dragon Age/Mass Effect, with zoomed-in cutscenes? Or will it be more like the Infinity Engine games and NWN1, where you stay at the same view level and just have dialogue boxes pop up? I'm assuming the latter since it's probably a whole lot cheaper.

There might be in game cut scenes IE style, but certainly not what of the sort you mentioned (also suppose to be more text heavy) As for interactions we know there will be scripted interaction and dialogues, but this all that we seen so far:

 

The last iteration of Scripted Interactions that we seen:

 

Character UI, which possibly give us a clue as to how the dialogue system will be framed:

Edited May 14, 2014 by Mor

[Zwiebelchen]

Baldur's Gate II used this sparingly in order to create a narrative. It also used the system primarily to define events where a lack of player agency in the dialogue made sense (i.e. Irenicus-led dreams, Irenicus and Imoen alone, etc).

 

Control over the dialogue is a key feature to the IE games, and when you ask people here which IE game they think had the best dialogue/writing then they almost inevitably answer 'PS:T' (As an aside, I maintain that Fallout 2, although not an IE game, was far better in this regard, but w/e). People are looking for more control of the dialogue, and less automation. As I say, the format you describe is more suited to interactive fiction than western rpgs.

 

Again, we can wait and see what people say, but I suspect that the majority of people - and unquestionably the vocal majority of people - would prefer something that was closer to the IE way of doing things.

 

There's always passive parts in a conversation. In the end, an NPC will have to provide you at least some background about the topic he is talking about.

 

I'm not saying that we need a cutscene for every dialogue. That would be just wrong; but I'm saying that there could be means taken to make dialogue more interesting and present narrative aside from just plain text.

 

If we take the Baldur's Gate II example again, let's just assume while you talk to the bridge district guard at the northern entry (you still have the ordinary dialogue window open and can do your multiple choice as always), when the guard talks about the murders and the harlot notifying them, you will actually see those scenes visually in the background instead of just having a forced focus on the city guard. It could be as simple as the harlot standing around a corner and a veiled person running away. No full fledged cutscenes; just some representation of what the NPC is currently talking about in isometric view.

Think of it as animated "topic images" that change depending on the dialogue branch you're in.

 

 

It just makes dialogue a lot more interesting if there's at least *something* going on.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Zwiebelchen

[JFSOCC]

“If you don’t like to read, don’t play this game”

 

-Josh Sawyer, project director and lead designer

I love to read, but seriously, do you only want walls of text delivering you the narrative?

[Sensuki]

This game won't have any walls of text. They mentioned a while ago that while Planescape Torment was a good game, they'll be avoiding walls of text and splitting up dialogue nodes if they get too large.

 

That line is more a stab at the people who prefer Mass Effect's way of doing things, and the fact that a lot of actions that would have an animation or cut scene in an AAA game, will be described through text in PE.

[teknoman2]

 

“If you don’t like to read, don’t play this game”

 

-Josh Sawyer, project director and lead designer

I love to read, but seriously, do you only want walls of text delivering you the narrative?

 

yes, if it means better written dialogue

 

npc makes a 10 line philosophical argument

1. 2 line serious response

2. 1 line joking response

3. 5 line philosophical response

4. 3 line political debate

5. 1 line ignorant response

6. goodbye

depending on the player choice, the npc may give up to a 15 line response

 

the cost to voice act a dialogue of that size would be prohibitive, so the same dialogue would be altered to (with all the implications that would have to the quality of the discussion and how well it could make the player understand the situation)

npc sumarizes his 10 line into a 3 line philosiphical argument 

1. 1 line serious response

2. 2 line philosophical response

3. 1 line political debate

4. goodbye

depending on the choice the npc may give up to a 5 line response

Edited May 14, 2014 by teknoman2

[Malekith]

 

“If you don’t like to read, don’t play this game”

 

-Josh Sawyer, project director and lead designer

I love to read, but seriously, do you only want walls of text delivering you the narrative?

 

I wouldn't have a problem even if we had walls of text delivering the COMBAT, with a static picture and walls of text describing every move and hit.

But as Sensuki said the game will have around the same text as BG2, which wasn't too much realy, and didn't  had "walls of text", so i don't see what the problem is.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Malekith

[Sensuki]

There's a quote from Something Awful (I think) about amount of text in a node, but I no longer have access to that thread as it's over two years old. Can't really be arsed paying $9.95 just to search it either.

[Malekith]

There's a quote from Something Awful (I think) about amount of text in a node, but I no longer have access to that thread as it's over two years old. Can't really be arsed paying $9.95 just to search it either.

Ask Roguey

[JFSOCC]

 

 

“If you don’t like to read, don’t play this game”

 

-Josh Sawyer, project director and lead designer

I love to read, but seriously, do you only want walls of text delivering you the narrative?

 

yes, if it means better written dialogue

 

npc makes a 10 line philosophical argument

1. 2 line serious response

2. 1 line joking response

3. 5 line philosophical response

4. 3 line political debate

5. 1 line ignorant response

6. goodbye

depending on the player choice, the npc may give up to a 15 line response

 

the cost to voice act a dialogue of that size would be prohibitive, so the same dialogue would be altered to (with all the implications that would have to the quality of the discussion and how well it could make the player understand the situation)

npc sumarizes his 10 line into a 3 line philosiphical argument 

1. 1 line serious response

2. 2 line philosophical response

3. 1 line political debate

4. goodbye

depending on the choice the npc may give up to a 5 line response

 

You misunderstand me. I'm not talking about voice over dialogue. I'm talking about delivering narrative through gameplay, through environment art, and through music and sound. You can write a large exposition dialogue about how an evil cult is evil, or you can show a pile of skulls at the entrance to their lair, have foreboding music and hear chanting and as you approach have a small animated cutscene where you see three innocent civilians being sacrificed on their altar of blood. (yes, I made this deliberately cliché and obvious. it is merely meant to illustrate a point)

 

You've given the message without uttering a single line of dialogue.

 

I'm not saying you can't have text, even lots of it, but it is but one of the many tools of delivering the game narrative to you, and depending on it exclusively is just plain stupid.

 

Walls of text will not hold your attention for long either. Not if every node is a wall of text. As proud as they were, even Bohr and Einstein admitted that they couldn't finish the Principa written by Newton (written to be purposefully dense, because Newton only wanted the brightest to comprehend it.)

Good writing is also knowing when to be sparing with words.

[teknoman2]

of course this is better to be shown than to just be described in text and i dont think the guys at obsidian are new enough in the business to not know about using visual and aural cues to create the apropriate atmosphere. but we were talking about dialogue with an npc, and in that case you would need LA Noir level cutscenes during conversations to make a visual representation of certain things instead of using a text descrition

Edited May 16, 2014 by teknoman2