RANDOM VIDEO GAME NEWS

[mkreku]

Exactly what is he stealing if he downloads a game he already bought but lost the CD-key for? You think the solution is to buy it again?

 

I have downloaded a few games where I bought the collector's edition, because I didn't want to open the package. Trust me, when I pay $200 for a game, I don't give a **** if someone calls me a thief for downloading that game later. I feel no remorse.

[LadyCrimson]

Buying a product typically does not = "if you lose it, you accidentally drop it in your BBQ, or a flood washes it away, you get to replace it for free forever and ever!"

[Malcador]

Digital products work a bit differently, though. What exact evil is he committing by cracking the copy protection on a game he owns ?

Edited April 23, 2013 by Malcador

[alanschu]

 

 

Buying a product typically does not = "if you lose it, you accidentally drop it in your BBQ, or a flood washes it away, you get to replace it for free forever and ever!"

 

There's always the level of "it's not a physical good" which always makes it easier to justify.

 

For myself, however, I would look at it as "What would I have to do if piracy wasn't an option?"  Now you could argue that a CD-Key wouldn't exist if piracy didn't exist.

 

I have, in fact, repurchased games where I have lost things like CD-Keys, mostly because it is my own fault for losing it.  It's another reason why I'm a big fan of digital distribution (and also another reason why I am more diligent in tracking my CD keys of the odd boxed game I get).

[mkreku]

Buying a product typically does not = "if you lose it, you accidentally drop it in your BBQ, or a flood washes it away, you get to replace it for free forever and ever!"

 

I'm sorry but that's the dumbest analogy you could possibly have thought up. In what way does it even remotely have anything to do with this situation?

 

He is not stealing anything from anybody. He still owns the CD. The CD is useless because of a code. He bought the CD, so YES, I actually do think he should have the right to get that stupid code forever and ever, no matter how many times he loses it. In fact, that code should not have been there in the first place (but that's another discussion).

 

How about this analogy instead: you buy a car and you lose the key. Should you have to buy a new car or break the lock on your own car? (assume that breaking the lock was illegal, which is as absurd as cracking a game you own being illegal, but for the sake of a flawed analogy)

 

I can't believe some people are actually defending the flaws in copyright protection laws..

[LadyCrimson]

@alanschu - Yeah, I do understand that type of justification in today's age and as I've said numerous times, I'd agree the laws could use some updating/changing with the changing times. But they aren't different yet, and I'm still old fashioned enough that....oh never mind, I don't want to get into that argument again.

 

 

@mkreku - so contact the related company and get a new key (or a new copy w/a new key if applicable). Don't have/lost/deleted/threw way the receipt? Wah.

Edited April 23, 2013 by LadyCrimson

[mkreku]

I'm guessing you're the kind of person who patiently awaits a green light in the middle of the night on a deserted road before crossing the road.

[LadyCrimson]

I'm guessing you're the kind of person who patiently awaits a green light in the middle of the night on a deserted road before crossing the road.

That depends on many circumstances. If the light takes 15 seconds, probably so, since I'd be braking/stopping anyway. If I'm waiting for 2-3 minutes I'll assume it's stuck and go. If one doesn't have the patience to wait for even 20 seconds or something, or see a deserted road as as an excuse to auto-ignore all traffic signs, well, no, I'm not like that.

[Malcador]

There's always the level of "it's not a physical good" which always makes it easier to justify.

 

For myself, however, I would look at it as "What would I have to do if piracy wasn't an option?"  Now you could argue that a CD-Key wouldn't exist if piracy didn't exist.

 

I have, in fact, repurchased games where I have lost things like CD-Keys, mostly because it is my own fault for losing it.  It's another reason why I'm a big fan of digital distribution (and also another reason why I am more diligent in tracking my CD keys of the odd boxed game I get).

Well that's pretty saintly of you to rebuy a game after losing the product key. Just seems a really strange case to label this activity as piracy as the company already has your money. Well I guess you're denying them a second sale ?

[Hurlshort]

This is exactly the sort of thing that would justify the usage of a "pirated copy". You know you've bought the game but might have misplaced it, why not fetch a copy from the internets and enjoy the game rather than give up, who's the victim if you recover your lost data from a torrent site ?

 

 

 

This doesn't actually say anything about a product key, it sounds like he lost the entire game, and it is what started the entire discussion.

 

I lost my key for a copy of my Windows OS once, and I was able to call Microsoft and get a new key.  But yeah, cracking a game is different than pirating it.

 

edit:  Oh and buying a collector's edition and not opening it, then downloading it off a torrent is ridiculous AND it's piracy.  

Edited April 23, 2013 by Hurlshot

[alanschu]

Well that's pretty saintly of you to rebuy a game after losing the product key. Just seems a really strange case to label this activity as piracy as the company already has your money. Well I guess you're denying them a second sale ?

 

 

I'm just accepting the responsibility of not taking care of my stuff.

 

I don't just buy it on a whim, and I highly doubt I'd buy it at full price.  But if I want to play the game, and the cost of my stupidity is affordable (i.e. some cheap price on Steam or something), I just pick it up again.  Usually with the advantages of the game now being digital and a lot more difficult for me to lose (but open to Steam going offline for good and me not being available to play it).  If I don't consider it worth my money to pick it up, I'll just play something else.

[alanschu]

 

I'm guessing you're the kind of person who patiently awaits a green light in the middle of the night on a deserted road before crossing the road.

That depends on many circumstances. If the light takes 15 seconds, probably so, since I'd be braking/stopping anyway. If I'm waiting for 2-3 minutes I'll assume it's stuck and go. If one doesn't have the patience to wait for even 20 seconds or something, or see a deserted road as as an excuse to auto-ignore all traffic signs, well, no, I'm not like that.

 

 

I'm similar in that way.  You can argue "Why don't you run it?  It's not like there's anything bad that is going to happen."  By the same token, it's not like anything bad will happen if I just wait out the light.  Saving the 30 seconds is of such marginal benefit to me.  But then, I stuck with the 4x CD Burner when other people had 24x CD Burners, because a 10-15 minute burning of a CD wasn't enough of an inconvenience to me to do so.

Edited April 23, 2013 by alanschu

[Hurlshort]

I also once spent an hour on the phone with EA because I couldn't get some of my older games to show up as registered products on Origin.  They patiently helped me fix my problems ( I had two accounts conflicting) and now all my EA and Bioware games in the last 8 years or so are easy to find and download if I need them.

[Blarghagh]

 

 

edit:  Oh and buying a collector's edition and not opening it, then downloading it off a torrent is ridiculous AND it's piracy.  

 

 

I'm inclined to disagree since opening decreases value on collector's items plus a game is a bunch of code. If you already own it, in the strictest sense, you have not gained a new or different product. You've just gotten something you own off a different source than intended.

 

Not that I'm advocating piracy or anything, I just think once you own a game then, you know, you own a game. What does it matter that you got it off a CD as long as you paid for it and already gave your money to support the developers? Yes, in a perfect world there would be no piracy, but it's not a perfect world and dealing with what if's is pointless.

[alanschu]

I'm inclined to disagree since opening decreases value on collector's items plus a game is a bunch of code. If you already own it, in the strictest sense, you have not gained a new or different product. You've just gotten something you own off a different source than intended.

 

You're right, it does require you to open it.  Good thing it's digital though, because if it was some OTHER packaged good, you'd either need to bite the bullet and open it (devaluing it) or pick up a non-collectors version to play.

 

 

Again, if a pirated option didn't exist, what would one do in order to preserve the value of the collector's edition?  In this case it's just the collector being lucky that a pirated option does exist.  Other collector's edition owners that are unaware have to shamefully devalue their collector's edition in order to experience the game. Or buy a regular copy on top of it.

Edited April 23, 2013 by alanschu

[Zoraptor]

My attitude is that if publishers are insistent that they're selling a licence rather than a product then that means that format shifting is aOK. After all, a licence to use rather than a perishable product means that you get to use it, and not have to purchase a second licence when it perishes, per the Goose/ Gander doctrine. I downloaded CD2 of IWD2 when something got dropped on the original with not the slightest compunction.

[alanschu]

Fair, if that's the way you wish to go.

 

 

A big reason why I continue to be obstinate in not pirating (I haven't been an active pirate for 13 years regardless, though my rationalization for doing so is fluid), is that somebody somewhere (and I have no clue as to who) goes "look at those piracy numbers.  We should find a way to combat that.  What sort of DRM solution can we come up with?"

 

People are so quick to point out that big publishers lack context when they just look at number of downloads (and I'd agree with this criticism).  But it doesn't do anything to help dissuade the impetus for someone to think that piracy is an issue.  Game publishers love their money, and in a super idealized world where piracy doesn't exist, they don't institute DRM because it's a waste of time and money (at least for piracy concerns.  I recognize that used game sales is another ball of wax).

 

 

I don't consider piracy good for the industry, but ultimately people do it and come up with their reasons for doing so, some better than others.  While I'm not a fan of piracy, though, I'm increasingly becoming less a supporter of DRM since working in the industry.  But JMO.  Someone somewhere thinks it's worth the time and investment, and I have zero visibility into the justifications and only have my own experiences and hunches to go on.

Edited April 23, 2013 by alanschu

[mute688]

Buying a product typically does not = "if you lose it, you accidentally drop it in your BBQ, or a flood washes it away, you get to replace it for free forever and ever!"

If I buy a dvd version of a movie I expect to have to buy it again if I lose the disk, it's scratched beyond repair or I want to upgrade to the bluray version.  Why?  Because the movie publishers acknowledge that they are selling a product and allow me reasonable access to the product I have purchased and it is my responsibility to maintain my possessions in working order.

 

With games, on the other hand, publishers want me to believe they are not selling a product, they are selling me a service, that service being access to a game.  I'm not buying the game, I'm buying access to the game.  If this service was like most other services you purchase where if for some reason I am unable to access that service, the provider offers a way to re-establish access in a reasonable time frame then I would agree that the best way to access your game would be to contact the provider (the publisher).  Unfortunately, the service providers in the gaming industry do not provide a resolution in an acceptable time frame.  In most cases you are required to email or phone the publisher, wait an indeterminate number of days or weeks to receive a reply and then meet unrealistic demands for proof that you are in fact entitled to access that service.

 

Game publishers are trying to claim that they are selling a service but treat that sale as a sale of goods.  They need to get their act together and decide whether they want to sell a service with speedy problem resolution, or they are selling a product where it's the buyers responsibility to keep those goods in working order.

 

Just my opinion. 

[Humanoid]

I take the one licence is one copy of the game dictate at face value since I don't want to think too hard about lawyerish matters. I do maintain that the licences should be fully tradable though, if not currently in use, hence my offer to Tigs. I don't see it as anything out of the ordinary - I bought both the Witcher 2 digital copy and a CE boxed copy, and when the latter arrived I gave away the key in it to a friend so they could redeem it on GOG. Two licences, two people playing, sunshine and lollipops.

 

Obviously some vendors, notably Steam, make this very hard to accomplish, but it can still be done if you register each game on a separate Steam account.

[Tigranes]

Well I had asked my friend for the key but he didn't have it either, and even if he did I'd have had to repurchase MOTB. I ended up getting the $20 GOG bundle because I wanted to try Mysteries of Westgate and also have the whole package for the future.

 

Obviously the other option was to download 'illegally' and yeah, it's hard to see a problem with a situation where (1) I would have been eligible to ring and recover my CD Key, if only NWN2 isn't such a convoluted mess of legal agreements I'd probably have to call 17 different places in some Blackadderian Nightmare; (2) buying it from GOG I very much doubt gives Obsidian any money; (3) It's a 7 year old game. Last night I was feeling particularly down though and ironically just wanted to make it an impulse buy. 

 

Starting MOTB with some kind of Sorcerer / Eldritch Knight / Red Dragon Disciple / Arcane Scholar of Candlekeep combination planned. I forgot just how wildly convoluted the character builds can be, which is awesome!

[Gorth]

Starting MOTB with some kind of Sorcerer / Eldritch Knight / Red Dragon Disciple / Arcane Scholar of Candlekeep combination planned. I forgot just how wildly convoluted the character builds can be, which is awesome!

Oh no you didn't... what happened to the BG2 let's play? (you're not supposed to have a life outside work/study before that's finished)

[Tigranes]

Term finishes next Friday. Then I have 3 conferences and a research trip, but I should have time to update.

[BruceVC]

My attitude is that if publishers are insistent that they're selling a licence rather than a product then that means that format shifting is aOK.

 

And now we have the intellectual justification for Pirating, I was wondering when someone would make a similar argument. But you are still still stealing and breaking the law, but if you sleep fine at night thats good news

 

I am opposed to Pirating on any level under any circumstances, I think there is a false and trenchant sense of entitlement from many people that Pirate and I've heard every excuse for this form of theft, I once had a guy say " I Pirate because the Developers made a  bad game and by Pirating its going to teach them a lesson to make a better game "

 

The main reason people Pirate is because they can and there is no legal consequences. They choose to do it  and not pay for something that someone else has worked years  to create

[Nepenthe]

It's funny, most people argue that they are buying a physical item analogue, and thus claim that their rights to use it shouldn't be limited in any way up until the moment they lose the discs and then start saying that because it's digital, they should replace it for free.

[BruceVC]

It's funny, most people argue that they are buying a physical item analogue, and thus claim that their rights to use it shouldn't be limited in any way up until the moment they lose the discs and then start saying that because it's digital, they should replace it for free.

 

I like it, its very difficult to dispute "lawyer logic "