My thoughts on project Eternity

[JRRNeiklot]

While I'm glad to see an rpg similar in vein to the BG series, I'm afraid there are too many new school ideas for me to ever purchase this game.  I'll enumerate them below.

 

Never missing is just plain dumb.   If I want to slay a dragon, I can just sit on my couch at home and swing my sword until he dies since I can never miss.   I wouldn't mind glancing blows doing less damage, but there should be the possibility of a miss. 

 

Cooldowns.  I hate them.  Give me a vancian system, or a spell point system, or something, hell, ANYTHING besides cooldowns.  I hate them in mmos, and I don't want them in a single player rpg either.

 

Level scaling.  I understand this is to be minimal in PE, but any scaling at all is horrid.  If I level up, and simultaneously, every creature on the planet levels up, I may as well not level up at all.  Some of my finest memories of crpgs, and indeed, rpgs as far back as the 70s are about getting my ass handed to me, and returning a level or two later for revenge.  If everything is mathematically balanced to always provide X level of challenge, we may as well be fighting nothing but orcs, because everything IS an orc with a different skin.

 

No exp for kills.  If there is no exp for kills, then there's no point in exploring.   It doesn't have to be a lot of exp, but there must be some, otherwise, what's the point?

 

 

 

Unless these proposed features are changed, I won't be purchasing this game.  It's unfortunate, because it otherwise sounds like an excellent game, but the above features would absolutely ruin the experience for me.   So, I guess it's back to waiting for a decent crpg and replaying the BG series for the nine hundredth time.   I suspect PE will do well, regardless, but a lot of sales will be lost due to the forcing of such unwanted mechanics on gamers.   I don't think the lack of such features would keep anyone from playing, but the existence of them will.   And all to serve some designers ego because HIS way of playing is superior to everyone elses.   So, back to waiting for a real crpg.  It's going on 13 years now.   Maybe Wasteland 2 will give me my rpg fix.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

The first two problems have already been shot down, no idea about level scaling, and I'm not sure about the XP thing(hasn't been discussed recently IIRC).

Edited January 27, 2013 by KaineParker

[SophosTheWise]

 

Unless these proposed features are changed, I won't be purchasing this game.

 

Now what? That's the core-point of your post? You open a thread, just to complain about certain features and to threaten you won't buy the game? Do you know who cares? Nobody. We have a LOT of excellent threads going. You can be part of those discussions - that's what feedback is all about. It's not about dumping childish threats in a thread that was created for no good reason. As much as Obsidian wants feedback, that's not the way it works.

 

First:

 

So, I guess it's back to waiting for a decent crpg

 

So, back to waiting for a real crpg

 

Then:

 

 ego because HIS way of playing is superior to everyone elses

 

Do you see what I see?

 

 

 

In conclusion: Nobody needs rants like this.

Edited January 27, 2013 by SophosTheWise

[JFSOCC]

I'm sorry the proposed changes displease you. I think they are wise improvements over their predecessors.

[C2B]

You're assuming worst case scenario when any of these three really aren't implented like that at all.

[Luridis]

Or, you could always wait until the game is finished and then make the call based upon a finished product rather than one that's still in the planning phase and hasn't even reached alpha.

[Tamerlane]

Obsidian, if you don't ignore this thread, I will nega-purchase a billion anti-copies of the  game.

[Malekith]

While I'm glad to see an rpg similar in vein to the BG series, I'm afraid there are too many new school ideas for me to ever purchase this game.  I'll enumerate them below.

 

Never missing is just plain dumb.   If I want to slay a dragon, I can just sit on my couch at home and swing my sword until he dies since I can never miss.   I wouldn't mind glancing blows doing less damage, but there should be the possibility of a miss. 

 

Cooldowns.  I hate them.  Give me a vancian system, or a spell point system, or something, hell, ANYTHING besides cooldowns.  I hate them in mmos, and I don't want them in a single player rpg either.

 

Level scaling.  I understand this is to be minimal in PE, but any scaling at all is horrid.  If I level up, and simultaneously, every creature on the planet levels up, I may as well not level up at all.  Some of my finest memories of crpgs, and indeed, rpgs as far back as the 70s are about getting my ass handed to me, and returning a level or two later for revenge.  If everything is mathematically balanced to always provide X level of challenge, we may as well be fighting nothing but orcs, because everything IS an orc with a different skin.

 

No exp for kills.  If there is no exp for kills, then there's no point in exploring.   It doesn't have to be a lot of exp, but there must be some, otherwise, what's the point?

 

 

 

Unless these proposed features are changed, I won't be purchasing this game.  It's unfortunate, because it otherwise sounds like an excellent game, but the above features would absolutely ruin the experience for me.   So, I guess it's back to waiting for a decent crpg and replaying the BG series for the nine hundredth time.   I suspect PE will do well, regardless, but a lot of sales will be lost due to the forcing of such unwanted mechanics on gamers.   I don't think the lack of such features would keep anyone from playing, but the existence of them will.   And all to serve some designers ego because HIS way of playing is superior to everyone elses.   So, back to waiting for a real crpg.  It's going on 13 years now.   Maybe Wasteland 2 will give me my rpg fix.

 

The deleted parts are out. No cooldowns, you can miss, and level scaling will be exactly the same as BG. You know that BG had level scaling,right? The scaling you are afraid of is Bethsedas and it won't be in this game.

As for no combat XP, tough luck, is in, and frankly, is a good thing.

[rjshae]

 

 

Unless these proposed features are changed, I won't be purchasing this game.

 

This is unbelievably tragic. What are we going to do now? I guess we better give in to all of his demands.

[Calmar]

Obsidian, if you don't ignore this thread, I will nega-purchase a billion anti-copies of the  game.

 

Noes! That would ruin them! :'(

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

While I'm glad to see an rpg similar in vein to the BG series, I'm afraid there are too many new school ideas for me to ever purchase this game.  I'll enumerate them below.

 Never missing is just plain dumb.   If I want to slay a dragon, I can just sit on my couch at home and swing my sword until he dies since I can never miss.   I wouldn't mind glancing blows doing less damage, but there should be the possibility of a miss. 

 Cooldowns.  I hate them.  Give me a vancian system, or a spell point system, or something, hell, ANYTHING besides cooldowns.  I hate them in mmos, and I don't want them in a single player rpg either.

 Level scaling.  I understand this is to be minimal in PE, but any scaling at all is horrid.  If I level up, and simultaneously, every creature on the planet levels up, I may as well not level up at all.  Some of my finest memories of crpgs, and indeed, rpgs as far back as the 70s are about getting my ass handed to me, and returning a level or two later for revenge.  If everything is mathematically balanced to always provide X level of challenge, we may as well be fighting nothing but orcs, because everything IS an orc with a different skin.

 

No exp for kills.  If there is no exp for kills, then there's no point in exploring.   It doesn't have to be a lot of exp, but there must be some, otherwise, what's the point?

 

 

 

Unless these proposed features are changed, I won't be purchasing this game.  It's unfortunate, because it otherwise sounds like an excellent game, but the above features would absolutely ruin the experience for me.   So, I guess it's back to waiting for a decent crpg and replaying the BG series for the nine hundredth time.   I suspect PE will do well, regardless, but a lot of sales will be lost due to the forcing of such unwanted mechanics on gamers.   I don't think the lack of such features would keep anyone from playing, but the existence of them will.   And all to serve some designers ego because HIS way of playing is superior to everyone elses.   So, back to waiting for a real crpg.  It's going on 13 years now.   Maybe Wasteland 2 will give me my rpg fix.

 

The deleted parts are out. No cooldowns, you can miss, and level scaling will be exactly the same as BG. You know that BG had level scaling,right? The scaling you are afraid of is Bethsedas and it won't be in this game.

As for no combat XP, tough luck, is in, and frankly, is a good thing.

I thought that you would get XP if you defeated a random pack of bandits, but that it would be determined by the encounter, not the number of bodies. Anybody know for sure?

[Malekith]

 

 

While I'm glad to see an rpg similar in vein to the BG series, I'm afraid there are too many new school ideas for me to ever purchase this game.  I'll enumerate them below.

 Never missing is just plain dumb.   If I want to slay a dragon, I can just sit on my couch at home and swing my sword until he dies since I can never miss.   I wouldn't mind glancing blows doing less damage, but there should be the possibility of a miss. 

 Cooldowns.  I hate them.  Give me a vancian system, or a spell point system, or something, hell, ANYTHING besides cooldowns.  I hate them in mmos, and I don't want them in a single player rpg either.

 Level scaling.  I understand this is to be minimal in PE, but any scaling at all is horrid.  If I level up, and simultaneously, every creature on the planet levels up, I may as well not level up at all.  Some of my finest memories of crpgs, and indeed, rpgs as far back as the 70s are about getting my ass handed to me, and returning a level or two later for revenge.  If everything is mathematically balanced to always provide X level of challenge, we may as well be fighting nothing but orcs, because everything IS an orc with a different skin.

 

No exp for kills.  If there is no exp for kills, then there's no point in exploring.   It doesn't have to be a lot of exp, but there must be some, otherwise, what's the point?

 

 

 

Unless these proposed features are changed, I won't be purchasing this game.  It's unfortunate, because it otherwise sounds like an excellent game, but the above features would absolutely ruin the experience for me.   So, I guess it's back to waiting for a decent crpg and replaying the BG series for the nine hundredth time.   I suspect PE will do well, regardless, but a lot of sales will be lost due to the forcing of such unwanted mechanics on gamers.   I don't think the lack of such features would keep anyone from playing, but the existence of them will.   And all to serve some designers ego because HIS way of playing is superior to everyone elses.   So, back to waiting for a real crpg.  It's going on 13 years now.   Maybe Wasteland 2 will give me my rpg fix.

 

The deleted parts are out. No cooldowns, you can miss, and level scaling will be exactly the same as BG. You know that BG had level scaling,right? The scaling you are afraid of is Bethsedas and it won't be in this game.

As for no combat XP, tough luck, is in, and frankly, is a good thing.

I thought that you would get XP if you defeated a random pack of bandits, but that it would be determined by the encounter, not the number of bodies. Anybody know for sure?

Not 100% sure but i think will be objective only.

Which means that you will get XP only if you have a quest to kill the said bandits.

Or maybe an objective will appear after you kill them "1000XP for dealing with the bandit group" or something similar

[locomotron]

As for no combat XP, tough luck, is in, and frankly, is a good thing.

 

While I do agree that getting the majority of XP from combat is strange, but the issue with objective based XP is that you don't gain experience for completing 90% of the dungeon, while you might need that experience to be able to complete the remaining 10%.

 

I think a balance between combat encounter XP and objective XP would be best(XP for defeating/avoiding encounters and XP for quests/tasks completed), but I understand the decision.

Care to link to the post where the decision is made?

 

[Althernai]

While I'm glad to see an rpg similar in vein to the BG series, I'm afraid there are too many new school ideas for me to ever purchase this game.  I'll enumerate them below.

 

You are a few months late to party. Every single one of your issues was discussed at great length during the Kickstarter and most (though not all) of the old-school crowd was convinced to give Obsidian a chance. Also, as was already pointed out, you are misunderstanding most of the issues.

Never missing is just plain dumb.   If I want to slay a dragon, I can just sit on my couch at home and swing my sword until he dies since I can never miss.   I wouldn't mind glancing blows doing less damage, but there should be the possibility of a miss.

There is a possibility of a miss, it's just less likely than a glancing blow. See this update for detail.

Cooldowns.  I hate them.  Give me a vancian system, or a spell point system, or something, hell, ANYTHING besides cooldowns.  I hate them in mmos, and I don't want them in a single player rpg either.

They actually mention this in the same update linked above. It's not cooldowns in the same way as MMOs and Dragon Age where you can only cast Fireball once and then need to wait some time until it comes back. Instead, it's a pretty complex system of per-encounter and per-rest abilities. The closest thing I can think of is the Sorcerer class from Baldur's Gate 2, except your lower spell levels regenerate between encounters.

Level scaling.  I understand this is to be minimal in PE, but any scaling at all is horrid.  If I level up, and simultaneously, every creature on the planet levels up, I may as well not level up at all.  Some of my finest memories of crpgs, and indeed, rpgs as far back as the 70s are about getting my ass handed to me, and returning a level or two later for revenge.  If everything is mathematically balanced to always provide X level of challenge, we may as well be fighting nothing but orcs, because everything IS an orc with a different skin.

 

There is no level scaling, there is encounter scaling which works exactly the same way as in the Baldur's Gate series.

No exp for kills.  If there is no exp for kills, then there's no point in exploring.   It doesn't have to be a lot of exp, but there must be some, otherwise, what's the point?

 

I don't remember what the outcome of this discussion was, but I believe that they said they will provide XP for exploring in some way.

 

Unless these proposed features are changed, I won't be purchasing this game.  It's unfortunate, because it otherwise sounds like an excellent game, but the above features would absolutely ruin the experience for me.   So, I guess it's back to waiting for a decent crpg and replaying the BG series for the nine hundredth time.   I suspect PE will do well, regardless, but a lot of sales will be lost due to the forcing of such unwanted mechanics on gamers.   I don't think the lack of such features would keep anyone from playing, but the existence of them will.   And all to serve some designers ego because HIS way of playing is superior to everyone elses.   So, back to waiting for a real crpg.  It's going on 13 years now.   Maybe Wasteland 2 will give me my rpg fix.

Again, late to the party. A lot of people actually like the changes and we've already paid enough to make the game.

[JRRNeiklot]

The first two problems have already been shot down, no idea about level scaling, and I'm not sure about the XP thing(hasn't been discussed recently IIRC).

 

That's good news.  I'm going by the info I've managed to dig up here and elsewhere on the internet.  I'm admittedly late to the party.

[JRRNeiklot]

Do you see what I see?

 

 

 

In conclusion: Nobody needs rants like this.

 

It's not a rant, just my opinion.  That's what message boards are for, or hadn't you heard. Now, if my info is out of date, that's fine, but the idea that those mechanics were even on the table is troubling.

 

Also, if you don't like what I have to say, you are free to ignore it and look elsewhere.

[JRRNeiklot]

I'm sorry the proposed changes displease you. I think they are wise improvements over their predecessors.

 

You can think what you like, you'll just be wrong.

[JRRNeiklot]

 

 

Unless these proposed features are changed, I won't be purchasing this game.

 

This is unbelievably tragic. What are we going to do now? I guess we better give in to all of his demands.

I sincerely doubt I'm the only one who feels this way.

[JRRNeiklot]

 

You are a few months late to party. Every single one of your issues was discussed at great length during the Kickstarter and most (though not all) of the old-school crowd was convinced to give Obsidian a chance. Also, as was already pointed out, you are misunderstanding most of the issues.They actually mention this in the same update linked above. It's not cooldowns in the same way as MMOs and Dragon Age where you can only cast Fireball once and then need to wait some time until it comes back. Instead, it's a pretty complex system of per-encounter and per-rest abilities. The closest thing I can think of is the Sorcerer class from Baldur's Gate 2, except your lower spell levels regenerate between encounters.

 

Yes, cooldowns, ala the mess that was 4th edition D&D, or encounter powers, however you want to say it.  No thanks.

 

As for no combat XP, tough luck, is in, and frankly, is a good thing.
 

In your opinion, which I must point out is in the minority.

 

Sorry for the multiple posts, but I'm not very proficient with the formatting of this board.

Edited January 28, 2013 by JRRNeiklot

[Lephys]

You can think what you like, you'll just be wrong.

 

He was just stating his opinion. I thought that was what message boards are for.

 

Also, while "message board" is a term used to describe forums, this one happens to blatantly be labeled "Project Eternity: General Discussion." I could be mistaken, but I believe stating your opinion is only part of what discussion entails. And why exactly do you feel the need for your opinion to be heard and considered in any capacity while at the same time ignoring all others, or unconstructively telling people that they're "wrong" in the midst of a simple sharing of opinions?

 

Just curious.

 

Also, "combat XP" is not out. Nor is "kill XP." You will get XP for killing. You just won't necessarily get XP at the moment of something's death. That's really the only inherent design difference from other XP systems, as far as combat and slaying are concerned.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Lephys

[SophosTheWise]

 

Do you see what I see?

 

 

In conclusion: Nobody needs rants like this.

 

It's not a rant, just my opinion.  That's what message boards are for, or hadn't you heard. Now, if my info is out of date, that's fine, but the idea that those mechanics were even on the table is troubling.

 

Also, if you don't like what I have to say, you are free to ignore it and look elsewhere.

 

No it's a rant dressed up as opinion. An informed and constructive opinion usually doesn't have childish threats in it.

Why is it troubling? Because they don't suit your particular taste? Maybe you don't like these mechanics, but maybe others do - there is no absolute truth at work here. It's different philosophies, different opinions. You can throw "you're wrong!"s around like you want - it doesn't make your opinion an absolute truth. As said before - we have a LOT of serious discussions going on here. Feel free to participate in them with constructive criticism. That's what this "message board" is ideally here. Threads such as this are simply disturbing the flow of discussion (and, really - read into it! There's a LOT more going on here than plain fanboyisms. Contribute!) and are not exactly helpful. All people on here want Project Eternity to be a great game, but there are different approaches for feedback. Yours isn't going to do much for it.

[Helm]

While I'm glad to see an rpg similar in vein to the BG series, I'm afraid there are too many new school ideas for me to ever purchase this game.

The game won't have too much in common with the BG series, because the lead designer Mr. Josh Sawyer did not like them.

 

It is quite amusing that he has to design a successor to a series of games that he hates. I'm sure the backers won't mind, because all 80,000 of them didn't like Baldur's Gate either.......

 

No exp for kills. If there is no exp for kills, then there's no point in exploring. It doesn't have to be a lot of exp, but there must be some, otherwise, what's the point?

 

The game is also a spiritual successor to commandos (a game that Sawyer loves), so it was necessary. No combat xp. Edited January 28, 2013 by Helm

[uaciaut]

While I'm glad to see an rpg similar in vein to the BG series, I'm afraid there are too many new school ideas for me to ever purchase this game.  I'll enumerate them below.

Unless these proposed features are changed, I won't be purchasing this game. 

 

Then don't purchase the game, problem solved. I won't even begin to try and attack the "problems" you mentioned in the OP (though "If I level up, and simultaneously, every creature on the planet levels up, I may as well not level up at all" was so stupid it got a laugh out of me), but you don't get to come here and whine about how you don't like some mechanics and so you won't buy the game.

 

The developers don't have any obligation to try and satisfy the apparent needs of every kid that comes to these boards and doesn't like the way XYZ because he thinks/feels that's not the way it should be done and who threatens that he won't buy the game unless these things are made the way they want to (i'd have sooner expected people who would have donated a lot to come and do this btw, not someone who hasn't invested anything and just threatens with his "possible commitment" to it lol). The people that are making the game know what they doing and they don't want to be told what road to follow, that's why they didn't get a publisher in the first place, and the fact that so many people had faith in them to donate so much has a say on how great they are at what they do.

[Helm]

uaciaut, on 28 Jan 2013 - 10:58, said:

 

 

 

JRRNeiklot, on 27 Jan 2013 - 18:53, said:

While I'm glad to see an rpg similar in vein to the BG series, I'm afraid there are too many new school ideas for me to ever purchase this game. I'll enumerate them below.

 

Unless these proposed features are changed, I won't be purchasing this game.

Then don't purchase the game, problem solved.

Yeah, it is a simple solution.

 

The backers that feel deceived and lied to can (and will) sell their licenses.

 

I guess i'm gonna be a day one licence seller myself. But I'll buy the game when once it drops to 99 cents on steam.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Helm

[SophosTheWise]

 

While I'm glad to see an rpg similar in vein to the BG series, I'm afraid there are too many new school ideas for me to ever purchase this game.

The game won't have too much in common with the BG series, because the lead designer Mr. Josh Sawyer did not like them.

 

It is quite amusing that he has to design a successor to a series of games that he hates. I'm sure the backers won't mind, because all 80,000 of them didn't like Baldur's Gate either.......

 

Well, on one hand this is really weird. I've read that post yesterday and it's indeed quite weird for someone who doesn't like the predecessors to make a successor. Especially if this successor was funded by fans to get another game like those old ones.

On the other hand I like new ideas (and maybe older ideas) being introduced.