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Reputation; The Famous One vs The Shaded One

high profile low profile reputation player

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26 replies to this topic

#1
Osvir

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Basically:

High Profile (High Reputation)

versus

Low Profile (Low Reputation)

How many chases after you as a "High Profile" character, how many wants autographs? How much ego stroking? Quests that you wouldn't find before? (Some old man trusting the White Knight wherein he doesn't trust the random Low Profile character).

How many assassins go after you? How many who would've attacked you on one playthrough just don't because you have a high enough reputation, how many wants to challenge out of honor?

As a "Low Profile" character, does that necessarily mean that you are a Rogue/Stealth/Non-Lethalist? No I don't think so. It just implies you don't leave any witnesses of your passing and are very adept at covering up your tracks. Might not get as many assassins after him, but could end up in fights where a "High Reputation" character does not.

How does Reputation affect the game, on low's and high's?

Is Mid-Reputation important?

Does a Low Profile open up more possibility for more suburb Quests, thieves guild or whatnot, but locks out from some High Profile quests? Vice versa.

Hugs, have a great day :)
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#2
Farbautisonn

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Im interested in this too.

Personally I generally try not to make myself too much of a profile. I want the rewards, yes, but if whoever I do jobs and errands for wants to keep the fame, add ten pct and Ill be fine with that. I dont want a high profile, because generally speaking, a high profile makes you a wanted guy. By one side or the other. Id rather be the "illusive man" (not in the Mass Effect sense) or the unseen hand. Plus esse, quam simultatur.
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#3
Osvir

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Awesome idea!

Give the reputation to the Quest giver :D

But that would require you to do the quest (depending on its impact and/or structure) rather low profile-ish as well. Leaving witnesses or someone sees you somehow, would the Quest giver get the credit even if you gave it to him?

"You caused too much ruckus!! Now no one will believe that it was me!" could you do a quest with some sort of "Mask" (Dishonored) and then give the mask to the quest giver? Could that cause people to hunt the Quest giver instead of you? (E.g., a couple of days "in-game time" later the quest giver is gone from where he was standing~ and "Commoner" banters can talk about it as if something that "happened").
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#4
Farbautisonn

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Added benefit: You would get more missions that could be "sensitive" or where a local warlord wanted to be percieved as perhaps weakend but not in any way crippled.

"So, when you attack this guy/return with the dragons head on a pike, wear this helmet. Its mine and its been in my family for ages. Anyone seeing you in it will likely assume its me".

So you return to the village with you or your warror class friend wearing the helmet/armour of the local warlord and you enter his palace. Then you hand over the armour, helmet etc, to the nobleman and he stands before his village with the dragons head in his hands getting all the praise.

And after the celebrations where you are as "advisors who made it possible" or as "good friends from out of town", he confides in you that he has a brother or a friend who could also use a "service". Would make for some intersting arching of quests.
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#5
Farbautisonn

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Programming wise it might not even be that hard to make stick. You could have the same missions as vanilla, but if you wore a helmet, or armour the reward would be different upon turn in or entering a specific area.
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#6
Osvir

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What if someone spills the beans? "Hey hey!!! This is the guy who is the guy who's done this thing thing, so coool!!! *yells* Hear ye hear ye!!"

How would you represent your reputation? By a banner? Can you lose reputation? Can you go into "hiding" if your reputation becomes too "hot"? How do you change reputation and would equipment play a part in "reputation"? (Changing Light Armor to Medium Armor makes people start to forget who you are or do you need some better and stronger method?).

Is the Reputation based off of 1 character in your party or your entire Party? Or is it only based off of the main character?

Edited by Osvir, 02 January 2013 - 02:18 PM.

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#7
rjshae

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The one comment I have is that I wish in-game reputation would act more like a spreading meme than a world-wide news flash. That would allow my party to exploit the element of surprise, at least for a little while. But I suppose the meme approach would be much more difficult to code.
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#8
Osvir

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Additionally: Would an action in South Dyrwood be noticed by the North Dyrwood mechanically directly, or does it take a "messenger" (like in BG) who needs to travel (physically-in-game time) from point A to point B before Northern Dyrwood knows what you did or talk about the things you did (though not knowing that you are the one maybe?).

How does Reputation spread across the world?

Personally I would like to avoid the "World News Flash!" where suddenly everyone knows who you are. If I help out a town with some quests, they should like the character depending on how I do it. I could be a High Profile character in one town, but a Low Profile character in another town.

Then there's the question of this, which hauntingly has this feeling of "Alignments":

High Evil Rep
High Neutral Rep
High Good Rep

Mid Evil Rep
Mid Neutral Rep
Mid Good Rep

Low Evil Rep
Low Neutral Rep
Low Good Rep

How I see it btw..
Reputation = Explains what your character does in the world.
Alignment = Explains your characters personality and what they did in the world.

#9
Farbautisonn

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I see your point.

"High evil rep" is usually what we are presented with in most RPGs. And it frankly annoys the crap out of me. We are presented with characters who rise to power intelligently and by use of extremely measured force, only to see them devolve into petty hamfisted tyrants. Its the Fzoul esque type.

Then we have the more Medium evil rep. The Saszz Tam type ones. They are every bit as evil as the Fzoul esque types but they are more likeable and they generally try to apply force in measure.

Finally we have "intelligent evil" as I like to call it. Sememmon type evil. If you didnt know the guy or what his goals were you would pretty much mistake the guy for "lawfull good". Freindly charming good, pays your party in advance and even if you falter doesnt try anything stupid. He just bides his time, makes other plans. The Sememmon type evil however is the least explored type of evil in any game to date, even PST where good and bad was relative. Its the real challenge of RPG AI as I see it. Making Sememmon type characters on both sides of the fence. Both as antagonist, but certainly also as protagonist
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#10
Gyges

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Rep must finally be done properly. Just...just.. no more of this:

Posted Image

and this


Posted Image
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#11
Ieo

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Obsidian did not say anything about global reputation, only faction reputation. That implicitly negates global applications of fame/infamy ("high profile") so it's better to look at reputation in terms of faction type. For example, if there was a secretive thieves' guild of sorts and you gain high rep with them, it stands to reason that you could be recognized by their members across geographies due to their internal communication channels but not by the general populace at all. And there's no such thing as the good/evil alignment bits either, as far as Obsidian has said (thank goodness), so you can toss that entire dimension of the discussion out the window. No alignments.

What breaks the OP is that it assumes global reputation. The question is then--will there even be global rep? That doesn't work with the PE faction-based concepts Obsidian has thus far proposed.
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#12
Osvir

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Very much an "if" but, if you could become a master swordsman, or you do some great task for a village. Could your reputation not spread? Could it even strike fear into an opposing faction narratively and mechanically (morale)? If everyone speaks about the main character in one town, could not messengers/traders pick it up and spread it somehow? Depends on how Obsidian does it.

How can you mechanically deal with reputation as well?
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#13
Farbautisonn

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From humble beginnings, this thread is looking to be one of the more interesting ones.

#14
Osvir

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As a Low Profile character, can a Cipher read minds and pick up quests for people in a different way? Magically and miraculously for the NPC's all of their purposes were fixed. They praise some God, but in truth it was you.

Does a quest necessarily have to be "finished" by turning it into the NPC? Can you instead of "interacting" with the NPC through standard use kind of... make them realize it was done somehow. Does a complete quest always end at face-to-face conversations and gift-givings?

How do you pick up quests? Can a quest be given to you by hearing chatter through a door?

Can you solve a quest before it has been realized? (e.g., having an item in possession all along that turns out to be the key to redemption or whatever cliche you can think of). Maybe you stumble across a rock that is of some importance in a greater scheme elsewhere, on a stranded lost island you and your group (or whatever quest), decides who does what by the decisions of the rock.

Edited by Osvir, 02 January 2013 - 05:37 PM.

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#15
Farbautisonn

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Oooer... innovative! Having the cypher scan surface thoughts. Nice. Might actually turn the Mass Effect esue "Evesdropping questing" into something interesting.

Edited by Farbautisonn, 02 January 2013 - 05:50 PM.

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#16
ogrezilla

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I want it to be possible to have a reputation that is wrong. I want to be able to be a good enough bad guy that people think I'm a good guy. Or I want to be able to make a mistake trying to do good and have people think I'm a bad guy for a while. I don't want the world to be all-knowing.
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#17
Osvir

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I'd like to get a reputation (based on actions) as the Lucky or Unlucky one.

Getting a ton of cash, or stumbling through a quest poorly but with lots of luck.

Or being the "Unlucky" one, people kind of marking you as "Cursed" because you've got such a bad luck. Additionally what ogrezilla says: Trying to do good but failing at it horribly, but really really trying, branding the party as an unlucky party and some people might even scurry away in some fear.

"It is a marked one! Poor sod.."

Could a reputation be noticed by Gods? With a Low Profile, a God who enjoys darkness and subtle approach might even "contact" the Player. Likewise, a high-born noble and kind soul with a High Profile might draw the attention of other Gods.
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#18
Osvir

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How is Reputation handled, relative to Cultural Background?

#19
Duke

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I want it to be possible to have a reputation that is wrong. I want to be able to be a good enough bad guy that people think I'm a good guy. Or I want to be able to make a mistake trying to do good and have people think I'm a bad guy for a while. I don't want the world to be all-knowing.


Absolutely this. If my evil deeds are done in secret and witnessed by nobody, nobody should know about it. If I'm generally a charming, helpful guy, I should have a reputation as being such, even if I'm coming back in the evening and strangling you in your sleep. Maybe there could be some who do know about my evil deeds though... the gods? Somebody who can read minds? It would mean I have a generally good reputation but there would still be some recognition/reaction by some to the fact that I've done evil.

If you accidentally do something 'bad' your reputation should suffer but you should have the opportunity to fix it somehow. Perhaps you could perform community service around the town (help the farmer pick his crops, donate food to the orphanage etc)...

And perhaps being of a certain race/culture could automatically give you a bad reputation with another race, which you then have to work to make good?
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#20
JFSOCC

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But couldn't this already be done with faction reputation? If you pick factions which are more on the down low, whether they're crime syndicates, secret societies, paranoid noblemen or just groups that don't chase fame, you'd get a standing amongst those with an ear to the ground, but not elsewhere. If you pick the gaudy factions to do jobs for, then those who enjoy more discretion might shy away from you, while the public would love you more.

here's a thought: I'd enjoy it if different party members could have different reputations, so someone might tell something to one party member, but not another.
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