Mental Disorders

[Drowsy Emperor]

Well, i didn't want to include 'real depression', since that is not something that you that have occassionally like a migraine. When you are truly depressed, you do not leave the apartment, you do not wash, something like brushing your teeth takes a whole day of mental preparation, you're emotionally catatonic and so on. Many people seem to think that being sad requires a medication now.

 

I can imagine its horrible, but some stats say 30 million people in the US alone use anti-depressants. I seriously doubt there are 30 million cases of clinical depression, in any society.

 

Holy ****

 

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/19/more-than-1-in-10-in-u-s-take-antidepressants/

 

Yep

[Orogun01]

Well, i didn't want to include 'real depression', since that is not something that you that have occassionally like a migraine. When you are truly depressed, you do not leave the apartment, you do not wash, something like brushing your teeth takes a whole day of mental preparation, you're emotionally catatonic and so on. Many people seem to think that being sad requires a medication now.

 

I can imagine its horrible, but some stats say 30 million people in the US alone use anti-depressants. I seriously doubt there are 30 million cases of clinical depression, in any society.

 

Holy ****

 

http://thechart.blog...ntidepressants/

 

Yep

They should just try heroin.

[Tale]

You mean a ton of common behaviors intrinsic to the human race have been categorized as illnesses, very likely for the sole purpose of selling medication.

Everything is "intrinsic" to the human race. Acid reflux, indigestion, and headaches are. Doesn't mean people shouldn't take pepto bismol and pain relievers. Allergies are part of the human condition, as well, but if you try to tell me I shouldn't take allergy relief, whether it be loratadine or diphenhydramine, I'll laugh in your face.

 

Your stigmatization of diagnosis and treatment strikes me as bizarre.

[Drowsy Emperor]

You mean a ton of common behaviors intrinsic to the human race have been categorized as illnesses, very likely for the sole purpose of selling medication.

Everything is "intrinsic" to the human race. Acid reflux, indigestion, and headaches are. Doesn't mean people shouldn't take pepto bismol and pain relievers. Allergies are part of the human condition, as well, but if you try to tell me I shouldn't take allergy relief, whether it be loratadine or diphenhydramine, I'll laugh in your face.

 

Your stigmatization of diagnosis and treatment strikes me as bizarre.

 

Diagnosis and treatment in psychiatry isn't based on demonstrable, hard facts like in most other branches of medicine. While this is a moot point when someone appears to be truly insane, it raises questions with the now popular (but previously totally ignored) diagnoses like ADHD, depression etc.

 

Its the same branch of medicine that propagated lobotomy, essentially zombie making, as a good form of treatment. That was a mere sixty years ago.

 

I take aspirin and antibiotics and whatever else necessary like any other individual, but when I see 30 million doped up people I see bull**** written all over it.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Drowsy Emperor]

Well, i didn't want to include 'real depression', since that is not something that you that have occassionally like a migraine. When you are truly depressed, you do not leave the apartment, you do not wash, something like brushing your teeth takes a whole day of mental preparation, you're emotionally catatonic and so on. Many people seem to think that being sad requires a medication now.

 

I can imagine its horrible, but some stats say 30 million people in the US alone use anti-depressants. I seriously doubt there are 30 million cases of clinical depression, in any society.

 

Holy ****

 

http://thechart.blog...ntidepressants/

 

Yep

They should just try heroin.

 

Well the kids get Ritalin and it apparently has a similar pharmacological effect to cocaine and meth (being a form of amphetamine).

 

So, they're sort of halfway there.

[Katphood]

You are missing or otherwise ignoring diagnostic criteria like this one for depersonalization disorder.

 

No. You completely missed the point. I didn't say that depersonalization doesn't exist, I was actually trying to say that the definition in wikipedia is pretty vague. Sure, mental illnesses exist and they should be taken seriously, but having "periods of detachment from self or surrounding" doesn't mean you have a depersonalization disorder.

[LadyCrimson]

Many people seem to think that being sad requires a medication now.

The drug companies spend a lot of money trying to convince people of this.

 

...which isn't to say drug treatment isn't helpful/needed in plenty of cases. But I would personally agree over-medication is becoming a pretty big problem in general.

 

edit:reworded slightly for better clarification. My brain is confuddled...

Edited December 26, 2012 by LadyCrimson

[Orogun01]

Diagnosis and treatment in psychiatry isn't based on demonstrable, hard facts like in most other branches of medicine. While this is a moot point when someone appears to be truly insane, it raises questions with the now popular (but previously totally ignored) diagnoses like ADHD, depression etc.

 

Its the same branch of medicine that propagated lobotomy, essentially zombie making, as a good form of treatment. That was a mere sixty years ago.

 

I take aspirin and antibiotics and whatever else necessary like any other individual, but when I see 30 million doped up people I see bull**** written all over it.

I agree that there are some prognosis which are either misdiagnosed or complete hoaxes, yet even if they weren't the correct approach to medication in psychology is to manage a condition, not treat it. Pills are merely a crutch to help with treating the actual cause, unless that is an extreme case where there is an actual physical cause, either hormonal or neurological.

 

There may a societal angle here, it seems that nowadays treatment for an unfulfilled life is a happy pill rather than a life.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Diagnosis and treatment in psychiatry isn't based on demonstrable, hard facts like in most other branches of medicine. While this is a moot point when someone appears to be truly insane, it raises questions with the now popular (but previously totally ignored) diagnoses like ADHD, depression etc.

 

Its the same branch of medicine that propagated lobotomy, essentially zombie making, as a good form of treatment. That was a mere sixty years ago.

 

I take aspirin and antibiotics and whatever else necessary like any other individual, but when I see 30 million doped up people I see bull**** written all over it.

I agree that there are some prognosis which are either misdiagnosed or complete hoaxes, yet even if they weren't the correct approach to medication in psychology is to manage a condition, not treat it. Pills are merely a crutch to help with treating the actual cause, unless that is an extreme case where there is an actual physical cause, either hormonal or neurological.

 

There may a societal angle here, it seems that nowadays treatment for an unfulfilled life is a happy pill rather than a life.

 

I agree, although I think its a valid question to ask if some of the pills are indeed treating the condition or making it worse.

 

The Generation RX documentary alleges that Lilly, the maker of the original Prozac knew, from their trials, that the drug can cause suicidal tendencies, and suicide, particularly in children and teens. Looking over the wikipedia article, it appears that its now common knowledge and part of the warning contained in the drug packaging.

Subsequent documented cases of suicide of teens (and one school shooting commited by a teen using Prozac), beg the question how it happened that an anti depressant that makes people kill themselves (?) got onto the market in the first place.

[Orogun01]

Apparently it only causes it on children and teens, which is fine since they shouldn't be taking it anyways. I mean if during what's supposed to be the best years of your life they have suicidal tendencies then they may as well get it over with because its not going to get better.

[Valsuelm]

Apparently it only causes it on children and teens, which is fine since they shouldn't be taking it anyways. I mean if during what's supposed to be the best years of your life they have suicidal tendencies then they may as well get it over with because its not going to get better.

 

While I couldn't be more against children taking psychotropics (or adults doing the same in all but rare exceptions), I would never tell someone it's not going to get better. Every person has a different situation and of those who are pushed to 'the edge' there are different reasons for being there. In most cases it actually will get better, though I'd never lie to someone as people are oft to do and say something ridiculous like 'time will heal'. If your entire family just blew up in an airplane or you've had all your limbs blown off by and IED... things really may not get better. Telling a teen that's going through some really bad stuff that it isn't going to get better is going to be a bad move and a false statement at least 99.99999% of the time.

 

Teenage years are not supposed to be the best years in anyone's life. If that's really true perhaps we should just all call it quits after them ala Logun's Run. Ridiculous? Of course... because it's not true. It's definitely been advertised to be in our culture as well as there are a great many adults out there saying they miss their teenage years. There are many reasons for that, but for many adults it's because they messed up their lives incredibly since their teens, or they're only adults by age and are still immature teens in their head and don't like responsibility. Anon.

 

In short: I had to take issue with you saying that the best years of anyone's life is their teenage years and that a teen who at some point is/was suicidal should just off themselves because it won't get better. For most, it does, and profoundly so.

[Gorth]

Its the same branch of medicine that propagated lobotomy, essentially zombie making, as a good form of treatment. That was a mere sixty years ago.

 

If you go back a century or more, the same people you would (or not, depending beliefs) entrust with sticking a scalpel in your guts and remove your appendix if it's inflamed, are the same guys who would tell you that your heart did the thinking, plague could be cured by bleeding the patient (since the disease must be in the blood!). Those who study the workings and the chemistry of the human mind are by no means perfect, but they'll get there eventually.

 

To be honest, I think in its current state, diagnosing mental disorders correctly is about as hard as predicting the weather correctly for a week in advance. You have all the signs and indicators and experience with similar situations in the past, but in the end, it is currently something very intangible you are dealing with.

 

What doesn't help is the big money involved, and I know back in Denmark, somebody did raise the issue a few decades ago, about the medical practitioners objectivity when they were part owners or shareholders in the medico industry. Some clever investigator noticed a pattern between prescriptions and relations between doctor and manufacturer.

 

Maybe somebody should take a good look at kickbacks and fringe benefits for those handing out the prescriptions and doing the treatment?

[Valsuelm]

Its the same branch of medicine that propagated lobotomy, essentially zombie making, as a good form of treatment. That was a mere sixty years ago.

 

If you go back a century or more, the same people you would (or not, depending beliefs) entrust with sticking a scalpel in your guts and remove your appendix if it's inflamed, are the same guys who would tell you that your heart did the thinking, plague could be cured by bleeding the patient (since the disease must be in the blood!). Those who study the workings and the chemistry of the human mind are by no means perfect, but they'll get there eventually.

 

To be honest, I think in its current state, diagnosing mental disorders correctly is about as hard as predicting the weather correctly for a week in advance. You have all the signs and indicators and experience with similar situations in the past, but in the end, it is currently something very intangible you are dealing with.

 

What doesn't help is the big money involved, and I know back in Denmark, somebody did raise the issue a few decades ago, about the medical practitioners objectivity when they were part owners or shareholders in the medico industry. Some clever investigator noticed a pattern between prescriptions and relations between doctor and manufacturer.

 

Maybe somebody should take a good look at kickbacks and fringe benefits for those handing out the prescriptions and doing the treatment?

 

Psychology/Psychiatry isn't the same field as the medical field, never has been and more than likely never truly will be, despite the efforts of those in the former field to become recognized by the latter field. So the folks that used leeches really weren't the same people who performed lobotomies.

 

As for the 'maybe somebody should look into'.... Just like many other issues many people have and the answers are clear. There is a direct relationship between those who make the drugs and those who prescribe them, even when those who prescribe them actually are ethical and intelligent people (there are a few) don't want it. Any doctor that doesn't have their heads up their ass and is honest with you will tell you that (though possibly not unless you know them on a personal basis).

 

As an example of just how aware some are that there is a connection, some states even passed laws to attempt to prevent drugs companies from finding out who was prescribing what. Why? Because it's known that drug companies court doctors and attempt to get them to prescribe their drug. And as illegal as it is, many doctors do accept kickbacks under the table. Not only that many doctors are just straight up lazy and incompetent and don't do their own research preferring instead to just go by what company X tells them is good to prescribe for condition X (this is the fundamental purpose of the DSM). If the drug companies don't have a catalog to find out what doctor is prescribing what it's hard for them to target their efforts. Of course as soon as this law was passed the states were sued. Vermont's case went all the way to the Supreme Court but the states lost (as they often do on any issue in the very corrupt Federal Court system when they're up against corporate interests or the Federal government itself.). see Sorrell vs. IMS Health for the case then went before the court.

 

There are people out there fighting the good fight. On this issue as well as many others. Sadly most of the populace prefers to stay ignorant on this and many other issues. It doesn't take too long to dig deep enough to find overwhelming corruption on the part of the pharmaceutical industry, the FDA, and many a 'doctor' in regards to psychotropic drugs or other drugs and chemicals in general.That said it usually doesn't take too long to dig deep enough to find corruption and dispel many a widely held myth. Most people sadly prefer to keep their heads in the sand, have their 'arguments' given to them by the bought and paid for media, and pick the 'left' or 'right' side in the imagined debate, never realizing that they're just expendable pawns being played and farmed.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Valsuelm

[Orogun01]

While I couldn't be more against children taking psychotropics (or adults doing the same in all but rare exceptions), I would never tell someone it's not going to get better. Every person has a different situation and of those who are pushed to 'the edge' there are different reasons for being there. In most cases it actually will get better, though I'd never lie to someone as people are oft to do and say something ridiculous like 'time will heal'. If your entire family just blew up in an airplane or you've had all your limbs blown off by and IED... things really may not get better. Telling a teen that's going through some really bad stuff that it isn't going to get better is going to be a bad move and a false statement at least 99.99999% of the time.

 

Teenage years are not supposed to be the best years in anyone's life. If that's really true perhaps we should just all call it quits after them ala Logun's Run. Ridiculous? Of course... because it's not true. It's definitely been advertised to be in our culture as well as there are a great many adults out there saying they miss their teenage years. There are many reasons for that, but for many adults it's because they messed up their lives incredibly since their teens, or they're only adults by age and are still immature teens in their head and don't like responsibility. Anon.

 

In short: I had to take issue with you saying that the best years of anyone's life is their teenage years and that a teen who at some point is/was suicidal should just off themselves because it won't get better. For most, it does, and profoundly so.

Sorry, I mispoke I was actually just referring to kids not teenagers.

To teenagers suffering from depression I usually tell them to man the **** up.

 

And as a rule of thumb life does gets harder as it progresses, Teens/Kids don't usually have to worry about paying bills, rent, making money.

I guess the blame doesn't fall solely on them, the system doth coddle them too much.