Class Weapon/Ability Ideas

[Osvir]

Specifically to the classes. Is there some weapons that just has an "umpf" in terms of fitting with a Class? The Grimoire as an example, Wizard tool. Is there any other items, tools or weapons that just resonate with a class discipline?

 

Would the Barbarian be better with Axes because they like to be up close and personal and hack and slash? Does classes have an innate practice towards one of the weapon disciplines, because they are devoted to it?

 

Unlike this thread "Outlandish Weapon and Armor" that touches "Exotic"/"Magical" weapons/armors, and also unlike this thread "Armor & Weapon Design A Plea Pt 3" which touches "Realistic" weapon/armor...

 

This thread is a homage to the Classes and below I've brainstormed, top of my head.

 

Barbarian = Axes, Clubs, Two-Handed/Dual-Wielding, Rocks (Big, Throwing), Fists, Polearms

 

Chanter = Megaphone-ish, partiture, Jew's Harp, Harp, Guitar, Flute (Blowpipe?), Ocarina, Staff, Poem

 

Cipher = Crystal, Emblem, "Implants" (alchemic potions and needles~injecting magical essence into veins)... I think the Cipher is most difficult to think about weapons, because the Cipher's weapon is the "Mind". Dream Catcher earrings? Enchanted glows that are special to the Cipher? Strings (to be able to do puppetry stuff)

 

Druid = Nature, Staff..??

 

Fighter = Sword, Mace, Shield, Axe, Spear, One-Handed, Sword+Board

 

Monk = Fists, Staff, Sword??

 

Ranger = Bow, Spear, Axe, Sword,

 

Rogue = Dagger, Scimitar, Short Sword, Throwing, Gun

 

Paladin = Hammer, Shield, "The Holy Word"

 

Priest = Mace, Gun, Shield, "The Holy Scripture"

 

Wizard = Grimoire, Lantern, Wand, Staff, Dagger

 

Let's try to make a decent list instead of what I've presented, I understand that everyone will be able to wield everything (from my understanding of Obsidians comments) but is a Fighter better with a Sword than a Rogue is? The Rogue can still wield a sword, but initially (as an innate ability because of Class History/Lore) a Level 1 Fighter is better with a Sword than a Level 1 Rogue? True? False?

 

Are some classes better with some weapons, just like some classes have some abilities that other classes don't have? I would like to say "Yes" (granted, I have no clue). That doesn't mean that a Rogue won't be able to equip a Sword, just that the Rogue would be weaker with a Sword than a Fighter to start off with. A Rogue could become great with a Sword, but never quite as good as a Fighter (the Rogue would become good in his own way).

 

Input?

Edited December 23, 2012 by Osvir

[rjshae]

If any of the classes are restricted by weapons, it should be based on practical reasons like cultural preferences, legal restrictions, roles in combat, or training availability. Hence, rogues may tend to carry weapons that are easy to conceal or are useful from ambush, while druids would likely use weapons that can be crafted from natural materials found in their area. Possibly the chosen character background could be used to determine what weapon training your character has received on a per-class basis.

[Osvir]

I'm not so interested in "restriction" but "advancements". Kind of how a Fighter could be better with a Sword comparatively to a Rogue (to a start) and the Rogue could be better with a Dagger comparatively to a Fighter (to a start).

[Nonek]

Chanter: Tales and sagas to be spoken.

Cipher: A childhood fetish or token, allowing the Cipher to focus his mind. A relic holding the souls of many long dead ciphers, whispering and not entirely to be trusted.

Druid: Tokens of the four elements, an obsidian stone for earth and fire, a snowflake caught in crystal for air and water etcetera.

Monk: Differing styles of combat, granting different benefits.

Wizard: Spells and wards graven by magic into their own flesh.

The other classes, as Rjshae said, decided by background, culture and choice. It would be nice to see areas where hold out weapons, daggers, knuckles etcetera, are utilised. Though the monk would be somewhat overpowered in those situations.

[Pshaw]

I really think that every class should be able to have access to every weapon and use them equally well. If I think my priest should be wading into combat with full plate and a 2 handed sword with his spells to back him up that should be up to me. I think the drawback to such a load out should be universal as well, full plate provides better physical protection but slows movement speed and lowers dodge chances, maybe lower magic defense as well. The 2 handed sword should hit hard and have big crit damage but swing slowly making enemy dodges hurt you that much more as you wait to swing again.

 

If you give these sorts of bonuses I find that they're either too small to matter or too big to be ignored. If they're small then they might as well put the time into something else if they're too big then you end up only using weapons you have the bonus on and it limits your gear selection. So I'd much rather not have class exclusive weapons or exclusive bonuses to them. I don't like finding gear and thinking, 'oh this is warrior loot and this is ranger loot' then discarding it because it's not something ideal for my party because they get bonuses from other weapon types.

 

Also if you add class exclusive weaponry then you need to make sure all that stuff drops often enough so that you can the right type of weapons for your party composition and all those weapons that don't fit in are just junk. I'd rather the amount of loot dropping be less often but higher in quality so little to none of it is wasted loot. Adding exclusive weapons seems to work counter to this.

 

Just my 2 cents but in the end as cool as it is flavor wise, and it is cool, I think gameplay wise it adds more negatives than positives. At least for me.

[Osvir]

^Not exclusive or restricted to any class.

 

Even in the IE games some classes were "Better" with some weapons because they had the potentiality to Master them (whilst some classes could not). What I am advocating for is that classes will start differently (The Fighter is better with a Sword, the Rogue is better with a Dagger) but everyone (all classes) can Master all weapons when you get to the end-game. A Fighter might Master the Sword faster, but the Rogue would still be able to Master it.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Osvir

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I really think that every class should be able to have access to every weapon and use them equally well. If I think my priest should be wading into combat with full plate and a 2 handed sword with his spells to back him up that should be up to me.

 

In that case what is the purpose of having fighter class?

 

Unique soul abilities?

[Archmage Silver]

Hm... so weapon bonuses for classes or races, like the THAC0 bonus elves received for longbows in the BG series? Ok, as long as we're not talking about restricting weapons to a certain class, apart from things like Grimoires obviously (only Wizards gain benefits from them).

 

I'm going to list the classes and then the weapons I'd like them to gain extra benefits from. Note: Fighters should be more skilled with melee weapons than any other class, and the same should apply to Rangers and ranged weapons IMO. I'd expand this to races and their regional variations, e.g. Boreal Dwarves, but I don't think we know enough about them yet.

 

Barbarian - Axes, Two-Handed Melee Weapons

Fighter - All Melee Weapons

Paladin - Longswords, Two-Handed Swords, Maces, Two-Handed Maces

Monk - Fist Weapons, Staves, Unarmed Style

 

Ranger - All Ranged Weapons

Rogue - Cutlasses, Rapiers, Daggers, Crossbows, Short Bows, Slings

 

Chanter - Maces, Staves, Slings

Cipher - Focus Talismans, Staves

Druid - Clubs, Two-Handed Clubs, Staves

Priest - Hammers, Two-Handed Hammers, Maces, Two-Handed Maces

Wizard - Grimoires, Staves

[Frisk]

If any of the classes are restricted by weapons, it should be based on practical reasons like cultural preferences, legal restrictions, roles in combat, or training availability. Hence, rogues may tend to carry weapons that are easy to conceal or are useful from ambush, while druids would likely use weapons that can be crafted from natural materials found in their area. Possibly the chosen character background could be used to determine what weapon training your character has received on a per-class basis.

 

I agree 100% with this - it simply makes sense, unlike the various artificial weapon restrictions in various RPG systems. However, those reasons apply primarily to the starting skills - If I want my Cipher to train in Warhammer fighting, I don't see why I should not be allowed to do that - sure, it would be a waste of my abilities, and training time that should be better spent on something else - but the game should allow me to make stupid decisions if I want to.

[Pshaw]

^Not exclusive or restricted to any class.

 

Even in the IE games some classes were "Better" with some weapons because they had the potentiality to Master them (whilst some classes could not). What I am advocating for is that classes will start differently (The Fighter is better with a Sword, the Rogue is better with a Dagger) but everyone (all classes) can Master all weapons when you get to the end-game. A Fighter might Master the Sword faster, but the Rogue would still be able to Master it.

 

Sorry I must have misread and assumed you meant for them to be class restricted. I'm totally fine with a class starting at a higher level of weapon mastery in a specific type of weapon than others so long as all classes can master it. As you say even mastering certain weapon types more quickly is a good way to go about this. I would however like any implementation of weapon mastery to increase via use and not through a talent, feat, perk, or anything similar that you gain upon leveling. I always hated D&D style weapon proficiencies where you had burn a feat to be able to learn to use new weapon types.

[NerdBoner]

I just want a spiked chain to wrap around my enemies necks...is that too much to ask for?

[SunBroSolaire]

Not exactly your question, but this is related:

 

http://forums.someth...0#post409741726

 

Even given this, it seems likely that different classes will naturally fit different weapon types. I don't think OEI has elaborated on the stats we'll have yet (?), but generally wouldn't rogues and monks have higher dexterity (making them better with light and complex weapons), while fighters and paladins would have higher stength (better for stuff like axes, greatswords, maces, etc...)? That's probably highly customizable, but I would also imagine class abilities will synergize with specific weapon types, such as monks having abilities that give bonuses for bare fisted combat or something...

Edited December 24, 2012 by SunBroSolaire

[aluminiumtrioxid]

^^ Why would this be a problem? Are Silver Fangs not different enough from Silent Striders? Bone Gnawers from Stargazers? Tremere from Brujah?

[Alexjh]

With a few exceptions, I'd generally go with no class is inherantly better with certain weapons than others, at least at the basic level.

 

The few exceptions are as follows:

 

Magical artifacts: Depending on the precise mechanics of it, non wizards shouldnt really get any use out of wands, rods, sceptres, spellbooks, magical loci etc. I like the idea that a barbarian with a wand would literally only be able to use it as a small sharp stick

 

Fighters: In general, the fighter is about mastery of equiptment when compared to the other front line classes, so in general, if you have an identically levelled fighter standing next to all the other classes every one holding, say, a morning star, the fighter should be better with it than any of the others.

 

Divine Weapons: As the idea of faith in project eternity seems to be faith empowers the person, in Paladins and clerics I can see the equivelant of a cyclical power up where you find a holy weapon of your guys religion (like the Moonblade or Cera Sumat in IWD2) which you then give to say, your Paladin of the Order of the Moon Goddess. The Moonblade technically has identical properties whether you give it to your Paladin or Gruk the slug worshipping barbarian, but because our Paladin *believes* in the holyness of her Goddess, that transfers soul energy into the weapon making it more potent than before, but not through any property of the weapon itself.

 

Monks: Obviously the unarmed thing goes without saying, but I'd also extent it to staffs and other humble/peasantly weapons - these tend to be low damage, but with the power of the monks chi (or whatever) they suddenly become much more formidable.

 

But generally speaking I'd go with somethign not that far removed from the simple/martial/exotic model of D&D - separating out classes which don't focus in weaponry as their main thing, classes which do and individual characters which invest in specific knowledge.

[Osvir]

I really think that every class should be able to have access to every weapon and use them equally well. If I think my priest should be wading into combat with full plate and a 2 handed sword with his spells to back him up that should be up to me.

 

In that case what is the purpose of having fighter class?

 

Unique soul abilities?

 

So basically...

 

A Wizard can become a master swordsman and a master magician? Sounds fair to the melee classes. Weapons he shouldn't be trivial in my opinion.

 

Way of the Sword.

Kendo is a physically and mentally challenging activity that combines martial arts practices and values with sport-like strenuous physical activity

 

Merry Christmas btw

Edited December 24, 2012 by Osvir

[Atreides]

Monks: General disarming, and disabling moves like throwing people to the ground. Weighted chain goes with the general idea.

Cypher: Close-range headbutt

Chanter: Electric guitar, building up to crazy solos if they're uninterrupted

Barbarian: Throwing melee weapons

Wizard: Incinerate enemies in their armour - the tougher the armour the more devastating the effect

[Diagoras]

A Wizard can become a master swordsman and a master magician?

 

Not quite. A Wizard can use all items that a Fighter can with the correct skill training, but the Fighter gets access to unique ability trees that a Wizard doesn't. Think of DA:O's ability system to see something similar.

 

This is, from what I can tell, how equipment is going to work. You're never going to be unable to use something because of your class - thus the Wizards in plate armor.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I would prefer classes not to have special abilities with any particular weapon. What I would like is for classes to have preferences for combat styles instead.

[Kaz]

Here's some ideas I had on the Druid class that I wanted to dump off. I have ideas on Barbarians and Ciphers too, which I'll edit in after I refine some things.

 

Druid

Might be bizarre concept, but what if there was a spell or category of spells where the effects are based on the type of terrain surrounding the druid?

Standing by a body of water unlocks a set of spells like summon water elemental, forests could provide wildlife summons or powerful entangle type spells. Conjure a big wave by a river *cough* *that scene from lotr*

Another similar idea, since it has been hinted that there will be local gods inhabiting forests, rivers and so on, it would be cool as a druid to be able to talk to them and request aid, and even have his abilities restricted to what the local god can provide.

A sample scenario; A druid is walking through the forest which belongs to the spirit/god Cernunnos. The druid spots a group of bandits approaching him and must defend himself. He drinks of flask of peyote cactus extract which throws him into a trance. While he trips balls he may communicate with the local spirit. Cernunnos favors the druid over the bandits and provides him with a list of powers he is willing to grant the druid. Druid picks a venomous entanglement and makes quick work of the bandits. Might sound a bit complicated but from the player's perspective it just means downing a potion to enter the trance, then picking a power from the list that pops up. Perhaps entering a trance outside of combat would allow you to initiate dialog with the spirit (if she/he is willing to talk), and could be a way for the druid to gain knowledge of the area, burrow the god's power to setup an ambush, or receive a buff which can last for a few hours. Having your options being limited by the terrain would take away from strategy in a way, but on the other hand it means your tactical option shift from area to area and keeps things fresh.

Either way I think linking some abilities of the Druid to the surrounding terrain could be an interesting way of differentiating him from other spell casting classes.

 

Some other thoughts:

• Create elixirs and potions from various extracts for others to use
  
• Chew on bark, snort ground up roots, smoke herbs for mind altering effects. (Example: Immune to pain for a short time and forego damage to stamina, health is still affected)
  
• Serve as a guide on hallucinogenic trips at campsites which can unlock innate soul powers of companions (similar to dream sequences in BG)
  

Could there be synergies between classes?

• Extract lethal poisons for fighters and thieves to coat their daggers and arrows.
  
• Preform ancient rituals which drive spirit-sensitive characters (such as barbarians and other druids) into a frenzy.
  
• Help break in an animal that could otherwise be difficult for a ranger to tame. (dire wolf / bear etc.)
  
• Use of these skills could be a great time to trigger banter between companions.
  

Summoning

• Tame and bring along animals who serve the druid.
  
• Tame an eagle (not as great in combat compared to a wild dog or something but great for scouting?)
  

Happy holidays!