Monks in Project Eternity

[Acre]

Ugh, please no asians in this game. How am I supposed to take it seriously if the heroes aren't Europeans?

[jezz555]

I'm not saying that it has to be entirely historically accurate, but if the world is inspired by Medieval Europe and the cultural environment (architecture, dress, technology) resembles Medieval Europe the introduction of a class that is oriental in origin feels out of place. I believe that Obsidian will implement them in a both appropriate and engaging way, I'm just curious as to how people suggest an essentially out-of-place class is to be fit in to the game.

 

Traveller from a far-off land, pretty simple imo.

Excuse me for being happy you are not one of the game writers. Doesn't get more easy and cliché than that x.x

 

You're excused, now lets hear your idea

Edited November 16, 2012 by jezz555

[Jorian Drake]

Ugh, please no asians in this game. How am I supposed to take it seriously if the heroes aren't Europeans?

...

 

I myself quite enjoyed Jade Empire, among other games

[Vargr]

This isn't medieval Europe.

 

Jade Empire wasn't ancient China, but I still didn't see any european medieval-inspired Knights in Full Plate or ANY sort of european influence.

 

To me, an obviously eastern-flavored Monk in a setting like P:E sticks out like a sore thumb, just like a western medieval knight would have felt

out of place in Jade Empire.

[Jorian Drake]

This isn't medieval Europe.

 

Jade Empire wasn't ancient China, but I still didn't see any european medieval-inspired Knights in Full Plate or ANY sort of european influence.

 

To me, an obviously eastern-flavored Monk in a setting like P:E sticks out like a sore thumb, just like a western medieval knight would have felt

out of place in Jade Empire.

 

actually yes, yes you did, one with a firearm

[jezz555]

This isn't medieval Europe.

 

Jade Empire wasn't ancient China, but I still didn't see any european medieval-inspired Knights in Full Plate or ANY sort of european influence.

 

To me, an obviously eastern-flavored Monk in a setting like P:E sticks out like a sore thumb, just like a western medieval knight would have felt

out of place in Jade Empire.

 

unless theres an explained reason he's out of place. For example the fact that he came from another part of the world

[Vargr]

This isn't medieval Europe.

 

Jade Empire wasn't ancient China, but I still didn't see any european medieval-inspired Knights in Full Plate or ANY sort of european influence.

 

To me, an obviously eastern-flavored Monk in a setting like P:E sticks out like a sore thumb, just like a western medieval knight would have felt

out of place in Jade Empire.

 

actually yes, yes you did, one with a firearm

 

Honestly? I stand corrected then. Damn it! And I thought it was such a damn good point to make!

 

That's what you get for not playing through a game all the way through!

 

I will get around to it some day...

[Jorian Drake]

or the reason may be that there is no medieval asia/europe in the setting, and their cultures and homes just happen to resemble RL ones and fit exactly into the setting

 

 

because ya know, the setting was made to be like that to begin with

[jezz555]

or the reason may be that there is no medieval asia/europe in the setting, and their cultures and homes just happen to resemble RL ones and fit exactly into the setting

 

 

because ya know, the setting was made to be like that to begin with

 

Except that ethnic groups develop as a result of climate and geography and you can't just put a bunch of different cultures in a games, but make them all white guys, it's a little racist. Kind of goes back to that whole realism thing everyone was talking about...

[Acre]

It's gonna be too complicated if they actually add different human cultures. Just make humans Euros and let the rest of em have an animal stand-in. Pandas n stuff

 

Actually let's just have two races: Men and Others

[Oerwinde]

This isn't medieval Europe.

 

Jade Empire wasn't ancient China, but I still didn't see any european medieval-inspired Knights in Full Plate or ANY sort of european influence.

 

To me, an obviously eastern-flavored Monk in a setting like P:E sticks out like a sore thumb, just like a western medieval knight would have felt

out of place in Jade Empire.

 

actually yes, yes you did, one with a firearm

 

Honestly? I stand corrected then. Damn it! And I thought it was such a damn good point to make!

 

That's what you get for not playing through a game all the way through!

 

I will get around to it some day...

 

To be fair in the game he was out of place. He was basically a conquistador going off about the savages he is encountering. How everyone has bare feet and none of their warriors has the good sense to wear plate armor. Voiced by John Cleese as well. It was a fun part of the game. But my point, was that the game treated him like he was out of place, because he was. If PE is 99% based on western Europe, but has asian inspired monks shoved in there, they will feel out of place, so unless they explain it properly or have some sort of blended culture...

[Hormalakh]

or the reason may be that there is no medieval asia/europe in the setting, and their cultures and homes just happen to resemble RL ones and fit exactly into the setting

 

 

because ya know, the setting was made to be like that to begin with

 

Except that ethnic groups develop as a result of climate and geography and you can't just put a bunch of different cultures in a games, but make them all white guys, it's a little racist. Kind of goes back to that whole realism thing everyone was talking about...

 

I don't think that this has actually ever been proven. It's just one theory of why certain "ethnic groups" are the way they are. There are many exceptions to this rule in RL.

 

Even now in America and many parts of the world, we have mixed ethnicities within one geographical location.

[Hormalakh]

It's gonna be too complicated if they actually add different human cultures. Just make humans Euros and let the rest of em have an animal stand-in. Pandas n stuff

 

Actually let's just have two races: Men and Others

Wow. You know how unbelievably racist that is? Why don't we make all the Chinese-looking people "pandas" and all the black-looking people "monkeys?" I'm sorry its too complicated for your pea-brain to distinguish between peoples of different cultures and ethnicities without designating them into animals.

 

Edit: I guess "Not sure if trolling" would have been appropriate. Sarcasm doesn't read well in text.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Hormalakh

[Atreides]

^I think Acre's being sarcastic.

 

Maybe monk orders are like university anime clubs. They think asian culture's cool and cosplay sometimes. Maybe a few masters even went there for the experience and brought back some real knowledge that they share.

[Rostere]

The real question to me is still why monks do not use any weapons. What is it with their fighting technique which disallows the use of weapons? Obviously it must have something to do with them imbuing their bodies with some kind of magic. There should be a solid reason why it isn't possible to enchant weapons in the same fashion, and why ordinary fighters do not also learn monastic fighting for defensive purposes. Maybe it takes a lot of time to learn to fight like a monk, or maybe you need to be gifted in some way. If Obsidian can explain how and why people are fighting half- naked with their bare fists against knights in plate armour I think that the exact cultural background for monks will be easy. The only reason people think it is a problem is that they themselves associate monks with East Asia while they believe PE will mirror European cultures.

[PrimeJunta]

Because only nobles are allowed to carry weapons?

[Rostere]

Because only nobles are allowed to carry weapons?

 

That is a great idea. (and, it has historical support for its credibility )

[Atreides]

Maybe it's precisely because most enemies are heavily armoured or in plate and are used to fighting against others that way. Monks are a niche to exploit the norm, and focus on evasion and disabling/disarming moves, turning the enemy's momentum against them. I'm sure warriors also practice for situations where lose their weapons. Monks take it to the next level.

[kenup]

Ugh, please no asians in this game. How am I supposed to take it seriously if the heroes aren't Europeans?

...

 

I myself quite enjoyed Jade Empire, among other games

I didn't, though I wouldn't mind a good story in a Far East setting.

 

Nor do I really mind unarmed kicking ass monks in P:E. But if everyone dresses and thinks medieval european(though they do have the concept of reincarnation), it's hard to make sense of someone wearing kimonos(Keokogi etc). As I said, IMO background options will help divert from the DnD cliché.

[Umberlin]

Except that ethnic groups develop as a result of climate and geography and you can't just put a bunch of different cultures in a games, but make them all white guys, it's a little racist. Kind of goes back to that whole realism thing everyone was talking about...

 

What cultures are they putting in the game again? Because so far it all seems entirely fictional to me, with any basis in real world cultures being purely a source of inspiration. Beyond that they're free to mix, match and say who developed what in their world freely. They can introduce a fictional Asian culture that developed the Monk's martial arts and surrounding lore, sure, but they don't have to. The Monk, their form of martial arts, and all their surrounding lore can be the result of any story Obsidian would look to tell, actual real world cultures and what they developed need never come into it. Elves could have developed martial arts and all that is the Monk in P:E for all we know, and it's simply been passed onto Humans.

 

If Monks and Forton have eastern elements to them, then Obsidian obviously have a place for that in P:E. If they don't have a place for that in P:E, then there wouldn't be any eastern elements to them. Simple and plain.

 

This isn't medieval Europe.

 

Jade Empire wasn't ancient China, but I still didn't see any european medieval-inspired Knights in Full Plate or ANY sort of european influence.

 

Then you didn't play very much of it. You can even get a western style weapon in Jade Empire, off of a western styled character.

 

Ugh, please no asians in this game. How am I supposed to take it seriously if the heroes aren't Europeans?

 

So only games starring white people of obviously European decent can be taken seriously? I do hope you're being sarcastic.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Umberlin

[kenup]

Then you didn't play very much of it. You can even get a western style weapon in Jade Empire, off of a western styled character.

He was one NPC. And a joke on top of that. He wasn't a representative of the game's setting and class system.

[Jorian Drake]

or the reason may be that there is no medieval asia/europe in the setting, and their cultures and homes just happen to resemble RL ones and fit exactly into the setting

 

 

because ya know, the setting was made to be like that to begin with

 

Except that ethnic groups develop as a result of climate and geography and you can't just put a bunch of different cultures in a games, but make them all white guys, it's a little racist. Kind of goes back to that whole realism thing everyone was talking about...

 

I don't think that this has actually ever been proven. It's just one theory of why certain "ethnic groups" are the way they are. There are many exceptions to this rule in RL.

 

Even now in America and many parts of the world, we have mixed ethnicities within one geographical location.

 

let's not even mention all the historical emigrations, heck my nation wouldn't even exist without those (although this can be said about most of them too)

[Umberlin]

Then you didn't play very much of it. You can even get a western style weapon in Jade Empire, off of a western styled character.

He was one NPC. And a joke on top of that. He wasn't a representative of the game's setting and class system.

 

If he didn't somehow fit into the world, he wouldn't have been there. He was representative of a larger world, cultures beyond the your character was a part of, and the amount of him simply didn't matter. Even one of him disproves what the poster was suggesting.

[Jorian Drake]

Then you didn't play very much of it. You can even get a western style weapon in Jade Empire, off of a western styled character.

He was one NPC. And a joke on top of that. He wasn't a representative of the game's setting and class system.

 

Let me note that he would have been more important, if an early planned variant of Jade Empire 2 would have been made, it would have been about an envoy going to the home of that character to sign a trade deal and make a diplomatic introduction, so while the char was funny he was indeed a part of the setting, a member of an existing culture/nation of that world, unlike (as example) throwing in Arnie as Terminator into the game as an easter egg /cameo.

[Umberlin]

or the reason may be that there is no medieval asia/europe in the setting, and their cultures and homes just happen to resemble RL ones and fit exactly into the setting

 

 

because ya know, the setting was made to be like that to begin with

 

Except that ethnic groups develop as a result of climate and geography and you can't just put a bunch of different cultures in a games, but make them all white guys, it's a little racist. Kind of goes back to that whole realism thing everyone was talking about...

 

I don't think that this has actually ever been proven. It's just one theory of why certain "ethnic groups" are the way they are. There are many exceptions to this rule in RL.

 

Even now in America and many parts of the world, we have mixed ethnicities within one geographical location.

 

let's not even mention all the historical emigrations, heck my nation wouldn't even exist without those (although this can be said about most of them too)

 

Indeed, trickle migrations that build up to large numbers over the years, and mass migrations of peoples from a particular area of the world to another, are not an unfounded concept. It's happened repeatedly in actual history, in amounts small to large. There'd be no fault in a fantasy setting using such an element to explain multiple cultures in one area.

 

For an example in a fictional setting; Guild Wars 2 - itpresented a mixed society and areas of their major city dedicated to some of the different cultures (take the Elonan area of the city, for example, with buildings and decorations in Elonan style, separate from the local mix of Krytan and Ascalon style). There are even Canthan elements there, and the people being mixed is a part of the story the game presents. The city is a mix of four cultures (Canthan, Elonan, Ascalonian and Krytan). Even Cantha in the first game represented a mix of cultures with the Kurzicks and Luxons being quite different from one another, and different still from the peoples of Shing Jea Island and Kaineng City (even Shing Jea and Kaineng had elements differing from one another).

 

Let me note that he would have been more important, if an early planned variant of Jade Empire 2 would have been made, it would have been about an envoy going to the home of that character to sign a trade deal and make a diplomatic introduction, so while the char was funny he was indeed a part of the setting, a member of an existing culture/nation of that world, unlike (as example) throwing in Arnie as Terminator into the game as an easter egg /cameo.

 

That would have been neat to see. I've always been a little sad they seem to have abandoned Jade Empire setting, for the many flaws the first game had, there was potential there.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Umberlin