Meele Mages

[Incendium]

Will melee casters be possible in this game?

 

EDIT: sorry for the typo

Edited November 13, 2012 by Incendium

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Will meele casters be possible in this game?

 

No.

 

Melee casters will be however.

[Sykid]

With the introduction of the Cooking skill, meal casters will also be possible.

[Tamerlane]

You have no idea how much I want food-based magic now.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

You have no idea how much I want food-based magic now.

 

I do. I want food based prayers as well for priests as well. All hail Raed-Vaelvaet, god of Cake!

[Pipyui]

Melee casters? Sure, why not.

Meal casters? Isn't that what I donated for?

[Incendium]

how do magic/melee hybrids work in the game?

Edited November 13, 2012 by Incendium

[Pipyui]

how do magic/melee hybrids work in the game?

 

Right well, so far as I understand it, "multiclassing" hasn't been detailed by Obsidian yet. They certainly have plans to allow for some class-fudging, like creating spellswords, but nothing is concrete yet (unless my info is dated).

There is a nice multiclassing thread where speculation and ideas are being thrown around if you are interested.

 

Edit: There you go, KaineParker

Edited November 13, 2012 by Pipyui

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

There is a nice multiclassing thread where speculation and ideas are being thrown around if you are interested.

 

I wouldn't call it nice, since the people who voted "no" to the first question seem to have misunderstood the "If you answered yes to the previous question" part of the second, and are making those who want "Mix and Match" multiclassing seem like a plurality rather than a majority over those of us who want multiclassing.

[LadyCrimson]

I've used the term myself at times, but I'm curious what others think a "melee mage/caster" means ... if you're going for melee, you're probably not tossing the fireballs and freezing hailstorms. So then do you mean, will you have enough defensive spells where you can safely whack people with a staff instead? If you're going to use a shield/mace, with an armor spell and a fire dmg to weapon and such, what makes that different from, say, a cleric?

 

Or are we talking about summoning magical swords?

[Nomine Vacans]

They were, they are and they will be...

[Jorian Drake]

I hope a "melee mage" can conjure weapons like flaming daggers or an electricity spear or acid scythe. Those would just make somehow more sense in most cases than using a standard melee weapon. Of course it depends on concept, in case of an "armored mage knight" it would be more fitting to also use physical weaponry, but in case of a mage who mostly defends itself with force fields, stoneskin, and similar, summoned weapons would be more fitting I think.

[Osvir]

A Mage in Baldur's Gate had all these spells I never really used... Ghoul Touch, Vampiric Touch, Cold Touch, Burning Hands... all magic that required to put your mage in a melee situation (cus the mage enchanted his hands). The problem when you did this was that the Mage was dead almost instantly the second he got in close (SCS, enemies target the Mage as long as he is in range of their sword/bow in any situation).

[Jorian Drake]

A Mage in Baldur's Gate had all these spells I never really used... Ghoul Touch, Vampiric Touch, Cold Touch, Burning Hands... all magic that required to put your mage in a melee situation (cus the mage enchanted his hands). The problem when you did this was that the Mage was dead almost instantly the second he got in close (SCS, enemies target the Mage as long as he is in range of their sword/bow in any situation).

Not to mention all those are low level (weak) spells which barely scratch (or at all) normal enemies, melee wizards need better defense and MUCH better melee damaging spells to be a proper close combatant

[LadyCrimson]

I hope a "melee mage" can conjure weapons like flaming daggers or an electricity spear or acid scythe. Those would just make somehow more sense in most cases than using a standard melee weapon. Of course it depends on concept, in case of an "armored mage knight" it would be more fitting to also use physical weaponry, but in case of a mage who mostly defends itself with force fields, stoneskin, and similar, summoned weapons would be more fitting I think.

Makes sense.

I guess I tend to think of "battlemages" when I start leaning towards melee. Would use some short-range attack spells but nothing very ranged, defensive spells, summoned weapons, very speed oriented. Very little healing augmentation magic wise. Even if they can wear physical armor to protect against physical harm/bullets, I might think it's appropriate for a mage to still have something like a "fire armor" that does some fire damage to melee attackers or something like that. Depends, like you said.

[Osvir]

Was going to make a topic about this but I don't want too many topics floating about... just tell me if it deserves its own topic (Wizard Mortality):

 

Rehash of an idea that was brought up before, wanted to do an "update check" what people feel now (and the crowd seem to be thinner/more specific/purposeful on the forums than what it was before).

 

Could excessive use of casting spells kill the Wizard? Not for low level spells but for some mid-range~ to high-level spells as a mechanic.

 

With the Grimoire being an off-hand item (I consider everything as being "consideration" by Obsidian in my eyes so I think even the Grimoire might not even be final even if it was talked "as if final" in Update 15) can it be combined with a dagger in your main hand for Blood Magic? What kinds of Magic does the Wizard cast with a Wand instead?

 

Related to this topic:

Tribal Magic? (Tattoos, scarification, seals/runes on Armor that let's your character cast some Magic/Templar Wizard)

 

Brand or the "Human Torch" springs to mind, being able to become an "elemental", but as a melee function.

 

Could the Grimoire's Magic be channeled through a Sword? (Sword Mage) What kinds of combinations can you use with the Grimoire? Would Grimoire+Sword be a Fighter thing or a Wizard thing? Is the Grimoire locked to the Wizard only or is it a tool for a "non-Wizard" sub-class as well?

Edited November 13, 2012 by Osvir

[Kalderas]

I had melee mage in bg2. Black blade of disaster ftw. We had many great defensive spell to go with it and if you really wanted to you could make a fighter/mage. I would like to have something like that.

 

Although i would like to have more choices, more weapon summon spells with different effects. i totaly liked iwd2 druid spells. I don't ask for a ton type just "enough". Its okay even if its not a totaly offical way to go just let us have the choice to try to make it with it :D

[mcmanusaur]

Sounds like magic is overpowered to me.

 

Ugh... mage players are the worst. "Let me lead the party, but don't make me tank to do so. After all, practical considerations shouldn't dictate party formations. Oh, but do let me be a viable tank if I want to be, with magical armor and weapons. Oh, and let there be utility mages too that can compete with rogues. And of course we still want our unrivaled AoE abilities."

Edited November 13, 2012 by mcmanusaur

[Jorian Drake]

I think magic is actually underpowered in most RPG games. While you can kill off as a warrior or rogue enemies with one strong attack or well placed sneak attack, you barely see spells in games that are not on the list of most powerful or most difficult (highest level) magic that can do the same. (if there are any proper damage spells at all) THis is especially true for western games, while it can go over the top in eastern ones (although in those usually you can just as much become overpowered as a mere swordfighter too so its balanced in a way)

Developers seem to be scared of making magic what it should be: the most frightening power one can wield. The damaging spells are also too much oriented at Fire among the elements IMO. I really want a mainly Water element using battle mage.

[Jojobobo]

Meal mages - more like sandwich mages, ha!

 

I'm the first one to make a lame joke about the spelling error, right guys?

[mcmanusaur]

I think magic is actually underpowered in most RPG games. While you can kill off as a warrior or rogue enemies with one strong attack or well placed sneak attack, you barely see spells in games that are not on the list of most powerful or most difficult (highest level) magic that can do the same. (if there are any proper damage spells at all) THis is especially true for western games, while it can go over the top in eastern ones (although in those usually you can just as much become overpowered as a mere swordfighter too so its balanced in a way)

Developers seem to be scared of making magic what it should be: the most frightening power one can wield. The damaging spells are also too much oriented at Fire among the elements IMO. I really want a mainly Water element using battle mage.

Pffffft. Magic users are consistently some of the highest DPS dealers, especially if you take Area of Effect and Effect over Time spells, and they generally have more pure offensive capability than warriors (which usually have to worry about defense as well as offense). Developers scared of making magic what it should be? What a joke...

[Jorian Drake]

...

 

examples?

 

Except in Dragon Age I don't recall really strong mages/spells, especially on low levels

At the opposite you find strong warriors and rogues slashing/knifing their way past hordes even as "beginners" everywhere

Edited November 13, 2012 by Jorian Drake

[Hellfell]

Many MMOs have mages as pure dps machines.

 

In baldurs gate every battle past early game is determined by a magic duel between spell casters. Also, it's really hard to solo if you don't dual class into cleric or wizard.

 

In icewind dale the ultimate power party is 1 fighter, 2 clerics, 1 wizard for control and 2 sorcerers for huge dps.

 

dragon age has potent mages.

 

However I agree that mages should possess really impressive tricks to rain doom on their opponents.

[Osvir]

The Magic in Baldur's Gate is wicked strong and powerful.

 

I'm playing Might & Magic, the very first one, and I'm also thinking "Magic used to be so much more of a deal". I can't see what my spells are, there is no interface for it, but I have to write it down on a paper and pretty much "guess" what the spells are. I get to "name" them and so on... if I had a manual for it maybe but the point is that the PnP experience is entirely gone in Modern Games.

 

I think it would be fun with some KnDP (Keyboard N Digital Paper, eh it'll do for now) within the game, Spells that you have to note what they are, Magic is mysterious after all and I've got to say that holding up my piece of paper looking at the spells I can use feels like I'm holding a Grimoire (in a sense). The Spells suddenly have a much more important value for me as a player (because I've been trying to figure out what they do). Finding the Heal spell was awesome, and the Magic Damage spell too. I started playing M&M Blind, so I figured out all the stats as I went along. Twas a most interesting experience.... There's 16 first level spells (8 Wizard, 8 Cleric), don't know if Level 2 spells are different or if it is just 8 core spells that get stronger and stronger.... we'll see.

 

The effects where already in the game, but for me to remember what they were I had to find it out and take notes. I could probably learn by memory as well if I dedicated myself more... make Magic more personal to the Player in some way where it isn't too tedious (being able to write on a blank scroll, notes that you'd take IRL on PnP you can now take on an easily cloned/duplicated/bought blank scroll and you get a virtual PnP experience inside the game.

 

I imagine that some spells you find you won't have a clue what they are, and you have to try it out a couple of times to "understand" it, being able to take notes on the specific spell description.

[Incendium]

Casters (Mages, Wizards, Elementalists) in most games are pretty stale (this is my opinion). They are just the flashier version of other range dps that uses physical projectiles. I would like to see some more melee type casters that can enchant their weapons with magic or conjure magical weapons to fight close range at the expense of having lower range damage.