Yo, BG, Arcanum, Fallout, IWD...

[Solonik]

...I am real happy for you and ima let you finish, but Planescape: Torment was the best game of all time.

 

That's really the essence of this post. I have played all of these games, sans Ice Wind Dale (because I just couldn't bring myself to do it after Baldur's Gate), and they simply do not compare, despite being great in their own right. Planescape: Torment was the best of the best. I want to take this game by game.

 

Fallout was, admittedly, great. Well, Fallout 2 - I sort of ran through Fallout 1 without really knowing/caring what's going on. Something about evil mutants. In FO2, I loved that you really could go anywhere you wanted, and there was nothing keeping you from getting smoked by Power Armor clad soldiers in the first 5 minutes in the game. That, and you could steal that sniper machine-gun thing. It didn't even mess with the balance since you didn't really have the skills to use it / the ammo for it. But the fact that you could get it made the world feel that much more realistic, considering how much of a role luck plays in the real world.

 

The game also did a good job of being atmospheric and the quests seemed to have at least some point. In most games, you do not give a **** about the quest / the characters. There was also an atmosphere of mystery sometimes - you really wondered where that crashed enclave VTOL Osprey-looking craft came from, etc.

 

The NPCs were more interesting that all of the other games listed here, but I still don't really remember any of them other than Vic. Speaking of which, going through the whole slaver thing made him seem that much more valuable.

 

Also, hobo-phase: There is nothing like getting smoked by some random drug-dealing punks in the first "city" of the game. Games are ruined when you develop super powers too quickly. It's priceless when the "common" enemies actually present a real threat for a while, and the easiest solution isn't to just blast them.

 

Finally, the ending really did feel epic.

 

Arcanum: I am not sure what happened here, but I simply did not find the game interesting. At first, I was fascinated by the idea of mixing tech with magic and thought it was really clever. Loved all the little notes about how machinery stops behaving according to the laws of physics, etc. But then, the game just felt empty, despite the numerous locations. They just weren't interesting.

 

The combat was uneventful - I don't remember a single opponent, whereas the ones from fallout feel distinct. All I remember is that golems broke my sword, so I got some magic sword. My whole strategy, the whole game, was to run around and bash things with my magic sword. I got some party members, but I don't remember any of them, they ran out of arrows fast, so I gave them magic swords. We happily bashed away, not a single one of them said anything memorable. I learned to teleport around, so I teleported and bashedthings more.

 

I do remember the exiled king - he had a story. I wanted to know more / wanted to see if anything can be done about helping him and went back to "his" town/kingdom, but there was nothing. So I bashed more things with my magic sword.

 

Then there was a dragon or a necromancer, or something, it was sleeping in some magic shell or some such. I bashed it with my sword. I don't remember what happened after. That's how I remember arcanum. I don't even do drugs and did really wanted to like the game.

 

Baldur's Gate: My only explanation for people liking it is that they played it as a kid. Nothing wrong with that - I wouldn't recommend Quest for Glory to anyone over 12, but it was a great game. On the other hand, most of the characters weren't memorable (I remember the necromancer and the early thief girl - though I never quite got what her story was), and even the ones who were had very little dialogue. Combat was pretty boring. Eventually I got bored and dumped my party. Then I snuck around and backstabbed everyone, all the way to the end of the game. Actually, I don't think I ever finished. I got back to the library and was supposed to do something there, and there were some side quests before you go underground, and there was some drama going on, but the result was utter apathy.

 

PLANESCAPE: TORMENT: I wrote many points here, but then I realized nothing can do this game justice. It was the only game that was more than a game or a book - it truly made me learn a lot about myself / the real world in a way that no other book/game/movie has since or before. Everything else was icing on the cake: every character was memorable, every faction mattered, every quest had a point, items had a story you cared about, the music was great, so were the animations. Still, the writing is what made this the best game of all time for me. Not the story itself, but the ideas presented through the characters - Mebbeth (/Ravel) on ritual (habits / things we get used to), Dakkon on will, the various ways to lead life / potential mental illnesses (as shown through the incarnations), power structures - factions, the Dabbus who were virtually defenseless, yet no one dared touch, etc.

 

I can't even put it into words. As such, I almost want to delete everything I wrote because it sounds like a lot of hate for the other games, which I actually liked. It's just that nothing comes close, and I hope the new game is more of the same.

[Pshaw]

I love all these games but personally I've found that Fallout 2 has stood the test of time more than planescape.

 

Planescape had an amazing story and I loved Sigil as a setting. They companions were some of the most memorable of any RPG I've ever played. But to be blunt I find the replay value somewhat limited by the fact that Nameless tends to just play best as a fighter everytime due to the training class system and the combat itself is just completely stale. These 2 main factors prevent me from getting through the game when I go back to replay it fairly consistently. As much as I love the game, and I do love it, I just can't get over these gameplay aspects enough to enjoy the story/characters as often as I'd like to.

 

Fallout 2 mainly due to it's turn-based combat and the ability to make a variety of characters that are different right from the start has more replay value than planescape. In the end as much as I will agree that planescape did plenty of things better than Fallout 2 as game it's inferior to me because it's gameplay isn't as good.

 

I don't say this to to try and say you're wrong or anything like that. Simply that from my perspective when choosing my favorite game out of those you've mentioned I have to pick fallout 2. It's the only one of them that I know if i went ahead and installed I'd be staying up too late in order to finish out The Den before turning in for the night.

[Solonik]

But to be blunt I find the replay value somewhat limited by the fact that Nameless tends to just play best as a fighter everytime due to the training class system and the combat itself is just completely stale. These 2 main factors prevent me from getting through the game when I go back to replay it fairly consistently. As much as I love the game, and I do love it, I just can't get over these gameplay aspects enough to enjoy the story/characters as often as I'd like to.

 

I personally played early fighter to mage the two times I played it (once as a kid, once as an adult - it's the only game I have replayed in my life) - I just couldn't stand the limited dialogue options of not having maximum wisdom / intelligence. I will agree that in terms of replayability value, PTS loses to FO2 hands down. Not only because of what you mentioned, but also because of the relatively linear story line. I was actually going to mention it in my post, but I feel like PTS couldn't have been what it was if it was an open world. Now more open? Maybe. As open as fallout? Probably not / not without an amazing amount of resources put into balancing and such. So, in short, I agree with you completely, but I feel that FO2 in no way compares to PTS, and I LOVE FO2.

[Pshaw]

I feel ya on needing high wisdom / intelligence for the dialogue options. Even though I tend to play a warrior I put those stats up rather high just for the memories and dialogue choices. Even with the high mental stats though by the time I can train as a mage I usually just found it better to stick to a fighter, which is why I found that aspect of the class system so frustrating.

[BBMorti]

 

 

 

CTRL + Q to Enable/Disable GoPhoto.it

Solonik I am curious.

 

Did you play a lot of FF/Chrono trigger type of games?

[Solonik]

Did you play a lot of FF/Chrono trigger type of games?

 

I haven't played either, ever, so I wouldn't know what the type would be, as I am sure you are not going for just "Japanese." Why do you ask?

[BBMorti]

I figured that would explain, in part, why you felt PST was a better game in your optic.

PST is more "Japanese" in style, compared to the others you list, but the way you described BG (my favorite) with the 'carelessness of a teenager who is talking about how tired he is of homework' it could be you simply preferred a very specific style of a game.

Edited November 12, 2012 by BBMorti

[Hormalakh]

Ever play BG2? I think that was much much better than BG1. I didn't much like BG1 myself and although I've played both 1 and 2 at one point. BG2 is the game I've played at least 3 (or maybe 4 times) fully.

[Nohurtme]

Ever play BG2? I think that was much much better than BG1. I didn't much like BG1 myself and although I've played both 1 and 2 at one point. BG2 is the game I've played at least 3 (or maybe 4 times) fully.

 

For me BG2 is one of the best games ever, I don't know why but I can play and replay and replay that game, doing different quests, classes equipment, alignments companions, etc. If I had to seriously pick just one game I could ever play again the choice would be fairly easy. Now PS:T is a pretty fantastic game, but much less variation, each time I play I feel like I'm just playing it the same way over and over again.

[Solonik]

^{@Horma: I have not, although everyone who has played both says the same thing as you. If it's the same magnitude of difference as there is between FO1 and FO2, then BG2 will definitely be worth it.}

 

PST is more "Japanese" in style, compared to the others you list, but the way you described BG (my favorite) with the 'carelessness of a teenager who is talking about how tired he is of homework' it could be you simply preferred a very specific style of a game.

 

I liked PST for the writing, not the gameplay, though I did like the gameplay. The writing is what's memorable to me. I want to be clear about that, so I am not putting down other games in aspects in which they were pretty good.

 

As far as BG - a lot of people love it an are offended by my opinion on it. I really did feel like I tried to enjoy it and hoped it would get better the whole game, but it just didn't, for me. To me, an RPG is a story first and foremost. If it manages to teach me something, all the better. BG felt so standard, so painfully trite. I tried talking to characters, I tried paying attention to the world, but I just didn't care. As far as weapons and skills - it seemed like some boring, natural progression of picking up whatever had more damage - so even the gameplay didn't feel interesting.

 

I realize I sound like a troll, but I hope I don't fully come of that way, because I mean what I say and actually do feel bad to talk that way about something people like, especially since people who created it may see this forum. In the end, I think by the time I played BG, it just felt like every other game, ever.

 

 

Now PS:T is a pretty fantastic game, but much less variation, each time I play I feel like I'm just playing it the same way over and over again.

 

I really don't think PST is meant to have any replay value tbh.

 

edit: I guess I should say this - I am not a gamer. I play games, and I don't have anything against gamers, but I have played D&D once in my life. I play maybe 5% of the major PC games that come out (dont own consoles at all), and don't have a single game installed on my computer atm. Most games, to me, are a way to pass time when I am being lazy, not something I particularly look forward to or think about. PST was just ****ing magical to me, for a lack of a better word.

 

And again, I am not out to offend anyone, though I realize that my first post can offend people - I just wanted to stress how much PST stands out to me, personally.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Solonik

[Utukka]

^{@Horma: I have not, although everyone who has played both says the same thing as you. If it's the same magnitude of difference as there is between FO1 and FO2, then BG2 will definitely be worth it.}

 

BG 2 = AWESOME. I've thought about doing BG1 again since I haven't played that in years(don't remember it being near as good as BG2), then doing some more runs of BG2.

[Hormalakh]

Yeah as someone who absolutely loves BG2 and backed this game because of that game, I would have to say I thought BG1 was mediocre at best. I only played it once just to understand why my character is who he/she is and the background of some of my companions. Otherwise, yep. BG1. Felt much the same way you did.

 

In other news, I have got to play PST.

 

Edit: Turned down the hyperbole.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Hormalakh

[Rostere]

All the people who played Arcanum seem to have had the same issue - "lol I used build X which is totally OP". Now, aside from the Harm spell which actually is pretty OP in the original game, there are lots of different builds in Arcanum which are very viable. Since it's a Troika game, it has also grown a lot with the unofficial fan patches. It's really a great game, you just need to replay it with different characters to realize that - in my opinion, it's more replayable than Fallout.

[Hormalakh]

All the people who played Arcanum seem to have had the same issue - "lol I used build X which is totally OP". Now, aside from the Harm spell which actually is pretty OP in the original game, there are lots of different builds in Arcanum which are very viable. Since it's a Troika game, it has also grown a lot with the unofficial fan patches. It's really a great game, you just need to replay it with different characters to realize that - in my opinion, it's more replayable than Fallout.

 

I loved Arcanum too, enough to replay the whole thing again. I do believe that some of his criticism is valid. There isn't enough depth to companions, the world can sometimes seem too daunting, magic can seem overpowered (although I've always played as a technologist). It's a great game and I really think it's one of those games that gets better the more you replay it, especially for the cRPG connoisseur.

 

Edit: Wanted to use the word connoisseur.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Hormalakh

[Rostere]

All the people who played Arcanum seem to have had the same issue - "lol I used build X which is totally OP". Now, aside from the Harm spell which actually is pretty OP in the original game, there are lots of different builds in Arcanum which are very viable. Since it's a Troika game, it has also grown a lot with the unofficial fan patches. It's really a great game, you just need to replay it with different characters to realize that - in my opinion, it's more replayable than Fallout.

 

I loved Arcanum too, enough to replay the whole thing again. I do believe that some of his criticism is valid. There isn't enough depth to companions, the world can sometimes seem too daunting, magic can seem overpowered (although I've always played as a technologist). It's a great game and I really think it's one of those games that gets better the more you replay it, especially for the cRPG connoisseur.

 

Edit: Wanted to use the word connoisseur.

I think there is enough depth (but not for all companions - the companions in Arcanum range between full-fledged companions and mere "henchmen"), but not enough conversation. I don't think magic is that OP (with exception of Harm) compared to any other sensible build. Even then, you're basically as powerful in combat with Molotovs, pistol, bow, just charisma to get henchmen, or other stuff. Some individual spells/ technological recipes are pretty useless but I think that's a lesser problem... No one ever bashed D&D because they thought, I don't know... "Skull Trap" was a useless spell.

[Razsius]

I really don't understand why everyone seems to love Planescape. I just don't. I've hit Curst... finally. I have to say for a goodly chunk of this game it has been a slog. A slow creeping death through the seemingly endless amount of fetch/delivery quests. Now some of them have some wit to them but more often then not they are more of the "Why am I everyone's runner again?" type. Delivering flyers, coming up with an answer to a stone warrior's question only to find him a worse trainer then the one in the previous zone, getting a guy's outfit for a costume party, delivering a message between siblings and the list of utterly epic quests goes on (let me go grab my pillow real quick here). Occasionally through the slew of atrocious questing you get a memory or two which is basically just enough to drive a man dying of thirst slightly insane. But hey there's always combat right? No, that's lackluster as well until you hit the Modron Maze. Yep, that's right folks a randomly generated dungeon where literally every single room in said dungeon is exactly the same. All rooms contain between 1-3 constructs and because Chris Avellone has a hand in this game they have to talk to you every *single* time you enter a new room. This is, of course, completely not infuriating.

 

Next, we have companions who come equipped with such riveting banter involving Morte staring at Annah's tail, Annah complaining about Grace and Morte telling me to dump Mr. Human Torch (aka Ignus) and here I was getting tired of Jan repeatedly ribbing Keldorn (absolutely hilarious), Keldorn telling a rather grisly story of his past to a too eagar Anomen (he even shut me up) and Imoen sharing experiences and stories that only two Bhaalspawn could really understand (Imoen being vulnerable was one of the best parts of the game... you got to watch her heal from it as well). Getting anyone besides Morte to talk is like tearing down a brick wall by hand (and yes I know I have to talk to *them*... the lazy bastards). I mean when Grace isn't trying to beat off her nature with a stick she... err wait *is* she even doing that? I can't tell. Why should I care about Deionarra's love again? Wait, I made a weapon to kill *myself* because...? I'm looking for my mortality so I can... what? Mr. I Think of Fire 100% of the Time follows me because...?

 

Brass tax: I don't like games based entirely on mystery (games ending in no Naku Koro Ni being the exception).

 

I'd really like to know what's so compelling about Planescape.

[TheMake]

Heh, ever play ToEE? Now that's some atrocious fetch-questing.

 

What follows is the -very accurate- template that can be applied to almost every side quest in ToEE: *enter craftsman X's house, take on solving a ridiculously trivial matter* > *stop by the druid's house* > *stop by the temple* > *go back to craftsman X's house* rinse and repeat ad nauseum. Best thing about them though was that they rewarded you with nothing 99% of the time. Nothing at all. They never paid you for the legwork, you didn't get exp or alignment shifts... Nothing. Mostly just opened up follow-up fetch quests.

 

I think PS:T's "fetch-quests" were pretty good? You never could take them at face-value. they always either had a cool twist, multiple approaches \ outcomes or tied in with other quests. For instance, what seems like a simple fed-ex quest turns out to be you trying to get rid of the equivalent of pandora's box all the while resisting the urge to take a peek inside? Helping some guy cursed with chronic flatulence, and in turn get cursed yourself - then come back with a vengeance? I think all of them were at least clever.

[Solonik]

Yeah as someone who absolutely loves BG2 and backed this game because of that game, I would have to say I thought BG1 was mediocre at best. I only played it once just to understand why my character is who he/she is and the background of some of my companions. Otherwise, yep. BG1. Felt much the same way you did.

 

I will definitely try BG2 at some point then!

 

 

All the people who played Arcanum seem to have had the same issue - "lol I used build X which is totally OP". Now, aside from the Harm spell which actually is pretty OP in the original game, there are lots of different builds in Arcanum which are very viable. Since it's a Troika game, it has also grown a lot with the unofficial fan patches. It's really a great game, you just need to replay it with different characters to realize that - in my opinion, it's more replayable than Fallout.

 

I agree with you as well - it probably is pretty replayable, but the thing is - I don't remember a single location. I think there was a city named Tula, and the only reason I remember that is because there was major production city called that in the USSR and it was a production city, I think. As far as NPCs - some girl followed me and got sad and wanted magic water not to be sad. This was the extent of her character. Then there was an evil elf from the tree that decided to be my friend. I am not sure why. They really wasted arrows though, so I gave them magic swords and necromancer armor (of some sort - I think it drained health from opponents, or something).

 

I did find the first 30 minutes of the game really compelling though, and then I just didn't know what was going on. I killed some zombies for someone, did something in the north, fought some golems in ruins, went to some island, killed some pirated, paid for a ship, there was a ghost in there somewhere, helped some beastmen defend themselves from hunters for some reason...it's all a blur.

 

-------------

 

@Razsius - how dare you!? Or at least, that would be my response, theoretically. Point-by-point time, I guess:

 

"I really don't understand why everyone seems to love Planescape. "

 

Because it's one of the few games that makes you think, if you pay attention to it. Think about yourself, think about what it takes to become someone. Some say that's taking it way too seriously, and I disagree.

 

""Why am I everyone's runner again?"

 

Because you chose to be, because you wanted the crap xp, because that's what games are for, right? Grinding for xp? Except this one is not, which is why we love it.

 

"Delivering flyers"

 

Didn't he just offer you some coin (JINK - which reminds me, dat lingo!) for it? I didn't do it.

 

"stone warrior's question only to find him a worse trainer then the one in the previous zone"

 

You had the options right there. Also, you don't have to do anything in the Festhall, I don't think, except maybe get your stuff from your room.

 

"getting a guy's outfit for a costume party"

 

I guess you like being a ***** for the wealthy? Didn't do this one either.

 

SPOILERSSSS

 

As far as good quests - Mebbeth's quests come to mind. You hate them if you treat them like a go-getter quest, you love them, if you actually think about the point they are making. Or raiding your own tomb. Or Cry for Trees guy - his quest actually makes a very interesting point. These points is what made the game.

 

As far as combat being horrible - I don't see it as being any worse than any other such game. It's well animated, each character has unique moves. Why you hatin?

 

"Wait, I made a weapon to kill *myself* because...? I'm looking for my mortality so I can... what? Mr. I Think of Fire 100% of the Time follows me because...?"

 

These actually all have very good answers. Also, you didn't have to make that weapon, or go in that tower. Nor do you have to be friends with fire boy. You can always just get what you need and kill him on the spot. Hell, it might not even be a bad idea...

 

"Next, we have companions who come equipped with such riveting banter involving Morte staring at Annah's tail, Annah complaining about Grace and Morte telling me to dump Mr. Human Torch (aka Ignus)"

 

Some of it was pretty clever. In fact, a lot of it was pretty clever. Also, the characters will talk a lot more as the game goes on. If you just hit curst, you probably didn't even start enjoying the game. The Hive is kind of an introduction. I actually put the game down twice before I got out of the Mortuary, but I am really glad I picked it up again.

 

"because Chris Avellone has a hand in this game they have to talk to you every *single* time you enter a new room. "

 

You go too far! Oh, and you didn't have to go to the maze either, unless you wanted another spell and stuff for the cube, which you could dump. Though he also said funny things, sometimes.

 

 

"Why should I care about Deionarra's love again?"

 

You shouldn't if you don't want to - it's also explained clearly, except you already missed it since you are in Curst. If you want spoilers, I will tell you her story, because I actually remember it, whereas I can't even remember who the BG characters you listed are.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Solonik

[thidrums]

 

 

Baldur's Gate: My only explanation for people liking it is that they played it as a kid. Nothing wrong with that - I wouldn't recommend Quest for Glory to anyone over 12, but it was a great game. On the other hand, most of the characters weren't memorable (I remember the necromancer and the early thief girl - though I never quite got what her story was), and even the ones who were had very little dialogue. Combat was pretty boring. Eventually I got bored and dumped my party. Then I snuck around and backstabbed everyone, all the way to the end of the game. Actually, I don't think I ever finished. I got back to the library and was supposed to do something there, and there were some side quests before you go underground, and there was some drama going on, but the result was utter apathy.

 

 

 

BG1 no memorable characters? Misc and Boo are the most memorable characters of RPG pc gaming history.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozv1RcQJAHA

[Soranor]

When I first played BG1 I made it to Baldur's Gate and then stopped playing - maybe because I felt the urge to visit every single unimportant home to see if I could find something valuable in a barrel so I was overwhelmed and lost interest. Still I really liked the game. But then came BG2 which I played through 4 times in a row. I loved it. A few years later I replayed BG1 and BG2 together and today I'm in the middle of my second BG1 playthrough with lots of mods. I have a 3rd character planned and will take all 3 of them through modded BG2 as well. So what I want to say is you should really try BG1 with mods, especially BG1Tutu or BGT.

[Brother Pain]

I really liked the setting, plot, characters, and even language (always loved the Sigil cant) of Planescape: Torment and still consider them all some of the best in computer games ever.

It's one of the few games that has successfully awed me with it's vistas outside of using pretty graphics engines (exiting the Morgue is still memorable), and the twists were actually surprising.

That said, I honestly always felt it would have been better as a slightly non-linear adventure game. The fights in the game actually get in the way of the good stuff (everything but the combat) and I've never made it past the Curst Prison due to the long and annoying forced combat section at the start.

It doesn't help that AD&D 2nd Ed. is one of my least favorite PnP systems* of course.

 

In other words, despite the excellent writing, gameplay-wise Fallout and Arcanum are very much superior, though I'll certainly agree that PS:T is the best of all the IE games.

 

(* I've never tried AD&D 1st Ed. outside of the Gold Box games, I've never played Cinnabar or FATAL, and AD&D is probably better than anything from Palladium, but that's not exactly high praise.)

[kabaliero]

i played bg1 and was fascinated

traveling\exploring was my fav part

don't remember how many times

 

waited anxiously for bg2

played iwd to ease the pain of waiting for bg2

 

feasted on bg2 numerous times

entered modding communities, dl'ed mods, modded the game

all to make it harder\more interesting

once was a time when i used my huge portrait collection to manually give each character, or type of character (commoner, guard etc) a dialogue portrait

that took me a whole day, but was sure worth it

not to mention all the romance\banter triggerplay

 

ahh.. was in my 16-19 back then

 

loved ps:t but in a diffrent way

 

fallouts were not so memorable but, also, great ofc

 

arcanum... let's just say, the final boss convinced me to kill everyone

[Razsius]

Because it's one of the few games that makes you think, if you pay attention to it. Think about yourself, think about what it takes to become someone. Some say that's taking it way too seriously, and I disagree.

 

If you're talking about the identity issue thing then even the BG series does that only in a slightly different way ("Do my genes make me who I am?"). I suppose one of the problems is i'm a lot older then I used to be back when this was released. I've already basically encountered media that does the identity topic *way* better then this game does.

 

""Why am I everyone's runner again?"

 

Because you chose to be, because you wanted the crap xp, because that's what games are for, right? Grinding for xp? Except this one is not, which is why we love it.

 

"Delivering flyers"

 

Didn't he just offer you some coin (JINK - which reminds me, dat lingo!) for it? I didn't do it.

 

"stone warrior's question only to find him a worse trainer then the one in the previous zone"

 

You had the options right there. Also, you don't have to do anything in the Festhall, I don't think, except maybe get your stuff from your room.

 

"getting a guy's outfit for a costume party"

 

I guess you like being a ***** for the wealthy? Didn't do this one either

 

So the solution to bad quests is to not play the game? I thought I was trying to unlock memories which could be encountered basically anywhere (at least until mortality became an issue all of a sudden). Apparently, playing the game is "doin it rong" I guess...

 

As far as good quests - Mebbeth's quests come to mind. You hate them if you treat them like a go-getter quest, you love them, if you actually think about the point they are making. Or raiding your own tomb. Or Cry for Trees guy - his quest actually makes a very interesting point. These points is what made the game.

 

As far as combat being horrible - I don't see it as being any worse than any other such game. It's well animated, each character has unique moves. Why you hatin?

 

You go too far! Oh, and you didn't have to go to the maze either, unless you wanted another spell and stuff for the cube, which you could dump. Though he also said funny things, sometimes.

 

As far as Mebbeth's quest goes I generally don't need a game to patronize me about patience. I *really* don't need it to do it twice (the stone man if you have low int). The other two were generally worth it especially Cry for Trees. I ended up stopping at his "oasis" for a few minutes just to kind of gather my thoughts on the Planescape matter.

 

As far as combat goes, every spell is instant cast and it's generally not worth your while to position Annah for a backstab. Combat is basic and trite at best and mind numbingly repetitive at worst. Your solution to the longest combat i've encountered yet was to skip it. That tells me much about it.

 

These actually all have very good answers. Also, you didn't have to make that weapon, or go in that tower. Nor do you have to be friends with fire boy. You can always just get what you need and kill him on the spot. Hell, it might not even be a bad idea...

 

While I can't even begin to understand the search for mortality I do know a fair bit about Ignus. The thing is his two answers to Ravel were "Burn" and "Burn". He might've been someone once but he certainly ain't much now. He's also the only pure companion mage that i've found and I wanted one in my party. Slim pickings when it comes to companions *really* sucks. As for making a weapon to kill myself. The *only* reference to it was Deionarra's prophecy. That's a pretty piss poor method to get the option to even show up if I do say so myself despite what it might *later* entail. "Oh look! I just so happened to have randomly picked up the key to unlock this door."

 

Some of it was pretty clever. In fact, a lot of it was pretty clever. Also, the characters will talk a lot more as the game goes on. If you just hit curst, you probably didn't even start enjoying the game. The Hive is kind of an introduction. I actually put the game down twice before I got out of the Mortuary, but I am really glad I picked it up again.

 

Looking at the map makes me think about 2/3 of the game is done and while I don't mind a back ended game, this is getting a tad ridiculous. Well at the very least it's nice to know that what I basically expected is true. /sigh

 

You shouldn't if you don't want to - it's also explained clearly, except you already missed it since you are in Curst. If you want spoilers, I will tell you her story, because I actually remember it, whereas I can't even remember who the BG characters you listed are.

 

No, I do know what little they gave me of Deionarra's backstory it's just they gave you so very little it's hard to make any real connection to her character. Second hand sources of information really doesn't help either. One of my biggest beefs is you can't go back and ask her ghost about her father, the stone, etc. It's has to be the biggest waste of a slightly different romantic foray ever. Like much of your companion history and a lot of even the memories I have found it seems to be up to me the player to basically fill in the blanks. There's what 6+ unique ways that people point you to Lothar and yet Deionarra who has her own damn theme can't get periodically undated dialogue options? Reminds me of the difference between a Tad Williams fantasy novel and a Brandon Sanderson novel. Tad spends reams of paper describing an experience to you. Sanderson *shows* you in 3 sentences. So much wasted writing... tch.

[AGX-17]

The game also did a good job of being atmospheric and the quests seemed to have at least some point. In most games, you do not give a **** about the quest / the characters. There was also an atmosphere of mystery sometimes - you really wondered where that crashed enclave VTOL Osprey-looking craft came from, etc.

 

I take it you never actually got that far in F2. It came from Navarro. It's called a Vertibird. You steal blueprints for them. From the guys who maintain them at Navarro. One of them is named Raul. Very mysterious.

Edited November 12, 2012 by AGX-17

[Wirdjos]

Spoilers maybe? Don't read further if you're playing P:T for the first time and don't want any information on the ending.

 

You shouldn't if you don't want to - it's also explained clearly, except you already missed it since you are in Curst. If you want spoilers, I will tell you her story, because I actually remember it, whereas I can't even remember who the BG characters you listed are.

 

No, I do know what little they gave me of Deionarra's backstory it's just they gave you so very little it's hard to make any real connection to her character. Second hand sources of information really doesn't help either. One of my biggest beefs is you can't go back and ask her ghost about her father, the stone, etc. It's has to be the biggest waste of a slightly different romantic foray ever. Like much of your companion history and a lot of even the memories I have found it seems to be up to me the player to basically fill in the blanks. There's what 6+ unique ways that people point you to Lothar and yet Deionarra who has her own damn theme can't get periodically undated dialogue options? Reminds me of the difference between a Tad Williams fantasy novel and a Brandon Sanderson novel. Tad spends reams of paper describing an experience to you. Sanderson *shows* you in 3 sentences. So much wasted writing... tch.

 

As far as Deionarra goes, did you finish the game? I thought the point of her character was that you weren't supposed to care about her if YOU as the player didn't care about her. That far I agree with Solonik, but you don't miss really that until the very last battle. Deionarra didn't really have much of a personality. That's what I learned from her backstory. The incarnation that actually knew her really didn't like her and you're free to feel the same way. I just felt sorry for her. All she does is test the real aligment of the player which is one of the things that makes P:T a really great game. It plays with the idea of aligment, both in D&D and in the real world. By allowing you to make decisions that affect your aligment and then adding in gameplay mechinics that make that relevent, the player gets a chance to question the effect of morality on the world at large and, more importantly, on the individual.