Relationship/Romance Thread IV

[Micamo]

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to get at with "fight-or-flight situation" there, but I highly doubt BruceVC is referring to something along the lines of the following:

"Man, walking down this path sure is nice. You're pretty cool."

"Yeah, you too. Yay, paths..."

*Wild Tiger appears*

"OMG! A TIGER! QUICK! SEX!!! NOW!!!"

"Wait... shouldn't we probably fle-"

"NO! SEX! IT'LL HELP ME COPE WITH THE APPEARANCE OF THIS VORACIOUS TIGER!"

 

 

I mean, the situation of being a video game hero who has to deal with lethal combat several times a day (that's what I assume is the "stress" he was referring to).

[Lephys]

I mean, the situation of being a video game hero who has to deal with lethal combat several times a day (that's what I assume is the "stress" he was referring to).

I apologize. I was thrown by your phrasing is all. That, and I couldn't pass up such a humorous scenario.

 

Here's the way I see it:

 

How far off is it, really, from saying "Welp, if we're gonna die tomorrow, or the world's gonna end, then we'll try to stop it. But, tonight, I'm going to order the most expensive thing on the menu, since we have to eat dinner and sleep before tomorrow's battle anyway!"? Except there's a person involved, rather than some inanimate food.

 

But, yeah. Confronting that kind of thing makes you think about what you can't do after it's too late, is all. Doesn't mean it's preposterous for people to not have sex just because there's world craziness going on. But, it's not entirely insane for them TO do that, either, and it's not exactly an arbitrary or abrupt decision when you've been through so much alongside someone.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

What?? Go study Aristotle man.

 Uhh,I'm aware of this. I was being sarcastic. <.<

Si. I believe Micamo was pointing out, via sarcasm, that it's silly to conclude that if you don't like Bioware games, then anything that can be found in a Bioware game must be something you hate, rather than actually pinpointing what it is you don't like about them, specifically. 

Turning to sex in times of stress as a coping mechanism is a sign of a pretty serious type of nervous breakdown. It is not representative of healthy human behavior. Normal humans in a fight-or-flight situation have sex as the last thing on their minds.

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to get at with "fight-or-flight situation" there, but I highly doubt BruceVC is referring to something along the lines of the following:"Man, walking down this path sure is nice. You're pretty cool.""Yeah, you too. Yay, paths..."*Wild Tiger appears*"OMG! A TIGER! QUICK! SEX!!! NOW!!!""Wait... shouldn't we probably fle-""NO! SEX! IT'LL HELP ME COPE WITH THE APPEARANCE OF THIS VORACIOUS TIGER!"

Next time I see a tiger, I'm going to try to get the closest woman to have sex with me.

 

Thanks for the tip Lephys.

[BruceVC]

 

I mean, the situation of being a video game hero who has to deal with lethal combat several times a day (that's what I assume is the "stress" he was referring to).

I apologize. I was thrown by your phrasing is all. That, and I couldn't pass up such a humorous scenario.

 

Here's the way I see it:

 

How far off is it, really, from saying "Welp, if we're gonna die tomorrow, or the world's gonna end, then we'll try to stop it. But, tonight, I'm going to order the most expensive thing on the menu, since we have to eat dinner and sleep before tomorrow's battle anyway!"? Except there's a person involved, rather than some inanimate food.

 

But, yeah. Confronting that kind of thing makes you think about what you can't do after it's too late, is all. Doesn't mean it's preposterous for people to not have sex just because there's world craziness going on. But, it's not entirely insane for them TO do that, either, and it's not exactly an arbitrary or abrupt decision when you've been through so much alongside someone.

 

 

Yes you have articulated my point well, there are many examples of people who face stress and death and have sex as a coping mechanism. I mentioned this before but during the Blitzkrieg in the UK many  people would wait in the dark while London was being bombed and have sex as a way to deal with the stress and the fact this may be there last night. I had a teacher who never knew his father for exactly this reason.

 

So now we extrapolate this behavior to a game like Torment, the Nameless Hero is facing the greatest journey of his life and untold dangers and horrors. He is surrounded by people that are prepared to face death for him and he is attracted to and he has feelings for. Why would he not have physical relationship with one of them?

Anyway I think I have made this point enough now

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

I mean, the situation of being a video game hero who has to deal with lethal combat several times a day (that's what I assume is the "stress" he was referring to).

 

I apologize. I was thrown by your phrasing is all. That, and I couldn't pass up such a humorous scenario.

Here's the way I see it:

How far off is it, really, from saying "Welp, if we're gonna die tomorrow, or the world's gonna end, then we'll try to stop it. But, tonight, I'm going to order the most expensive thing on the menu, since we have to eat dinner and sleep before tomorrow's battle anyway!"? Except there's a person involved, rather than some inanimate food.

But, yeah. Confronting that kind of thing makes you think about what you can't do after it's too late, is all. Doesn't mean it's preposterous for people to not have sex just because there's world craziness going on. But, it's not entirely insane for them TO do that, either, and it's not exactly an arbitrary or abrupt decision when you've been through so much alongside someone.

Yes you have articulated my point well, there are many examples of people who face stress and death and have sex as a coping mechanism. I mentioned this before but during the Blitzkrieg in the UK many people would wait in the dark while London was being bombed and have sex as a way to deal with the stress and the fact this may be there last night. I had a teacher who never knew his father for exactly this reason.

 

So now we extrapolate this behavior to a game like Torment, the Nameless Hero is facing the greatest journey of his life and untold dangers and horrors. He is surrounded by people that are prepared to face death for him and he is attracted to and he has feelings for. Why would he not have physical relationship with one of them?

Anyway I think I have made this point enough now

Perhaps after all the times he has died, his manly parts no longer function? Edited June 7, 2013 by KaineParker

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

I mean, the situation of being a video game hero who has to deal with lethal combat several times a day (that's what I assume is the "stress" he was referring to).

I apologize. I was thrown by your phrasing is all. That, and I couldn't pass up such a humorous scenario.

Here's the way I see it:

How far off is it, really, from saying "Welp, if we're gonna die tomorrow, or the world's gonna end, then we'll try to stop it. But, tonight, I'm going to order the most expensive thing on the menu, since we have to eat dinner and sleep before tomorrow's battle anyway!"? Except there's a person involved, rather than some inanimate food.

But, yeah. Confronting that kind of thing makes you think about what you can't do after it's too late, is all. Doesn't mean it's preposterous for people to not have sex just because there's world craziness going on. But, it's not entirely insane for them TO do that, either, and it's not exactly an arbitrary or abrupt decision when you've been through so much alongside someone.

Yes you have articulated my point well, there are many examples of people who face stress and death and have sex as a coping mechanism. I mentioned this before but during the Blitzkrieg in the UK many people would wait in the dark while London was being bombed and have sex as a way to deal with the stress and the fact this may be there last night. I had a teacher who never knew his father for exactly this reason.

 

So now we extrapolate this behavior to a game like Torment, the Nameless Hero is facing the greatest journey of his life and untold dangers and horrors. He is surrounded by people that are prepared to face death for him and he is attracted to and he has feelings for. Why would he not have physical relationship with one of them?

Anyway I think I have made this point enough now

Perhaps after all the times he has died, his manly parts no longer function?

 

 

 

Maybe, but I am sure I remember a part of the game where he mentions everything is in order? I may be wrong

[Ulquiorra]

Yeah there are some people/ cratures/ baing that will not have sex like this guy :

 

 

But if you look like this :

 

 

 

And in you party is a chick like this :

 

 

And she is intu you there is no posibilitty then "Don't" have sex. This mayby one night stand this mayby romantic love but if 2 atractiv and free people meet ech other ...you know what happen ...

 

I you have this type o chick in you party and she was intu you whoud enyone (beside gay people) turn her down ?!

Edited June 7, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[centurionofprix]

Edited June 7, 2013 by centurionofprix

[centurionofprix]

...

Edited June 7, 2013 by centurionofprix

[PrimeJunta]

Still don't get why there are all these romance haters. Chill out, if you want your character to be a mysanthropic loner just roleplay as such and avoid falling in love with anyone.

 

That would make sense if romance was free. But it isn't. It carries a cost. The characters have to be written with that option in mind, and with a representative selection of player-character roles in mind. All that constrains other possibilities for the characters' story arcs, not to mention writing, design, and development effort.

 

Some of us "romance-haters" feel that, resources being limited, there's more gameplay enjoyment payoff in spending that coin elsewhere, especially as one of the biggest studios in the business makes a point of servicing "romance-lovers" already.

 

Short version: if you want a BioWare romance, why not play a BioWare game? Obsidian doesn't do romance much, and when it does, it usually doesn't do it all that well, even by cRPG standards. (Exhibits A and B: Elanee and Casavir. Exhibits C and D: Safiya and Gann, two excellently-written characters that turned incredibly awkward the minute their romance arcs started.)

Edited June 7, 2013 by PrimeJunta

[Ulquiorra]

PrimeJunta

 

 

That would make sense if romance was free. But it isn't. It carries a cost. The characters have to be written with that option in mind, and with a representative selection of player-character roles in mind. All that constrains other possibilities for the characters' story arcs, not to mention writing, design, and development effort.

 

Some of us "romance-haters" feel that, resources being limited, there's more gameplay enjoyment payoff in spending that coin elsewhere, especially as one of the biggest studios in the business makes a point of servicing "romance-lovers" already.

 

 

Yes but pro-romancers never said "i want romance so don't make something". Pro-romancers just say that 100% logical and living character will also romance.

 

They like romance the same as you like talking or make other interactions to a npc/ praty member. So they want it to. But if obsidian someday whoud say "we cut of agression or hatered in game becose it's egostroking" im sure you whoud feel disapointed.

 

for me i whoud much more like few types of armor/ weapon simple gameplay and fully made characters (with love, sex, hate, and other traits) becouse the characters made a STORY and PLOT ... not the issues if your grandmother has hell spawn or do you have longsword +3 or stronghold ..

 

 

 

Short version: if you want a BioWare romance, why not play a BioWare game? Obsidian doesn't do romance much, and when it does, it usually doesn't do it all that well, even by cRPG standards. (Exhibits A and B: Elanee and Casavir. Exhibits C and D: Safiya and Gann, two excellently-written characters that turned incredibly awkward the minute their romance arcs started.)

 

Your conclusion aboud Obsidan romances is tru BUT not becouse the characters like elanee was 100% finished .. becouse she was not. Safiya was good in my opinion but not the best. Secodnly this isint a discusion "have 100% realistic character but no romance or 80% of character + romance" becouse if we cut dawn romance there will always be 80% of character with 20% of their brains cut down (and other organs).

 

The game is not only for buffying up your stats or leveling up. The part of role play is the most important. If i want to creae a character that is womanizer or simle guy that is seeing boobs everywhere .. and you cut dawn options to romance i will never take 100% expierience of playing my type of character ..

 

This is even worst then "we will not have mages becouse magic is egostroking" and im sure if they whoud cut down magic many players will never play this game (with is bad if anyone is couting on PE 2) ..

Edited June 7, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[motorizer]

resources being limited,

 

I'm pretty neutral on the romance thing, I think this is the first time I've looked at this thread....however, this always makes me laugh

 

362% on kickstarter of what they actually wanted to make the game, plus whatever they've made since...people are tripping over themselves to hurl money at obsidian, as well as other studios like inxile and double fine, yet every suggestion is always met with "Nooooo...limited resources" it just seems to be an excuse to try and stop them adding a feature you don't want.

 

I know they are not limitless, but how much do you think they need? $10million? $1billion?  .....they didn't seem to think so.

 

 

As far as romances go, as long as they are well written and optional then I'm fine with them

[Ulquiorra]

 

resources being limited,

 

I'm pretty neutral on the romance thing, I think this is the first time I've looked at this thread....however, this always makes me laugh

 

362% on kickstarter of what they actually wanted to make the game, plus whatever they've made since...people are tripping over themselves to hurl money at obsidian, as well as other studios like inxile and double fine, yet every suggestion is always met with "Nooooo...limited resources" it just seems to be an excuse to try and stop them adding a feature you don't want.

 

I know they are not limitless, but how much do you think they need? $10million? $1billion?  .....they didn't seem to think so

 

 

Yeah i agree.

 

We have resorces for godlikes, ciphers, chanters, paladins, stronghold, second big big city and enchanted musics and extra dungeon ... but we have no for 1 good optional romance .. is it just me .. or is this .. dumb ?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

I will give them credit for the way they handled the shuttle pilot (Steve? I can't remember his name now... been a while since I played through the game) in Mass Effect 3. Best handling of a homosexual character in a game I've ever seen. He was a character who happened to be gay. But, that didn't automatically make him flirt with everyone in sight, and make the story go "HEY, DID WE MENTION HE'S GAY?!". It was great. He was a really good character, too, even as a more minor character.

 

 

It seems I'm not the only one who disagrees with this.

[BruceVC]

 

 

resources being limited,

 

I'm pretty neutral on the romance thing, I think this is the first time I've looked at this thread....however, this always makes me laugh

 

362% on kickstarter of what they actually wanted to make the game, plus whatever they've made since...people are tripping over themselves to hurl money at obsidian, as well as other studios like inxile and double fine, yet every suggestion is always met with "Nooooo...limited resources" it just seems to be an excuse to try and stop them adding a feature you don't want.

 

I know they are not limitless, but how much do you think they need? $10million? $1billion?  .....they didn't seem to think so

 

 

Yeah i agree.

 

We have resorces for godlikes, ciphers, chanters, paladins, stronghold, second big big city and enchanted musics and extra dungeon ... but we have no for 1 good optional romance .. is it just me .. or is this .. dumb ?

 

 

Nope its not dumb and it makes sense

 

I keep saying this but I'll say it again. For me if PE doesn't have Romance/Sex than the game will be lacking that deeper interaction and immersion that you get with your party members, it would be a pity. Of course the game will still be great and entertaining but for me it will be lacking something

[Nonek]

Personally i've always found deeper interactions and immersion comes from realistic depictions of characters, not the teen romances we are usually subjected to, i've certainly never thought thought of a character as lacking because they have no romantic feelings for my protagonist. If the only method of getting to know characters is through romance/sex then i'll be majorly disappointed with the game, your colleagues may simply not be attracted to your character, and that's fine I certainly wouldn't hold it against them.

 

If requiring stress relief through sex, simply visit a bawdy house, one assumes the bigger cities will have them in abundance.

[Ulquiorra]

Personally i've always found deeper interactions and immersion comes from realistic depictions of characters, not the teen romances we are usually subjected to, i've certainly never thought thought of a character as lacking because they have no romantic feelings for my protagonist. If the only method of getting to know characters is through romance/sex then i'll be majorly disappointed with the game, your colleagues may simply not be attracted to your character, and that's fine I certainly wouldn't hold it against them.

 

If requiring stress relief through sex, simply visit a bawdy house, one assumes the bigger cities will have them in abundance.

 

And you think that people made couples becouse sex of teen romances from entire time ?

 

You think that 2 people can't be in "love" or deep relationship witch sexual desire with not going to "bawdy house".

 

If you think so then i deeply sorry for you ... and let me have this irrational illusion ... you got fire ball i got romance

Edited June 7, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[PrimeJunta]

 

resources being limited,

 

I'm pretty neutral on the romance thing, I think this is the first time I've looked at this thread....however, this always makes me laugh

 

362% on kickstarter of what they actually wanted to make the game, plus whatever they've made since...people are tripping over themselves to hurl money at obsidian, as well as other studios like inxile and double fine, yet every suggestion is always met with "Nooooo...limited resources" it just seems to be an excuse to try and stop them adding a feature you don't want.

 

I know they are not limitless, but how much do you think they need? $10million? $1billion?  .....they didn't seem to think so.

 

 

As far as romances go, as long as they are well written and optional then I'm fine with them

 

 

Resources != money. Also time, ideas, creativity. Write a character as a romantic interest means NOT writing that character as something else. A player not pursuing the romance line will be interacting with a half a character. Rhett Butler is not the same character as Dirty Harry, and you can't "add a romance sub-plot" to Dirty Harry without fundamentally changing who Dirty Harry is.

 

We all have preferences about how those resources ought to be used. I consider romance subplots generally a waste of time. I won't throw a hissy fit if they're in (although I probably will if there's another Elanee or Casavir in there!) but I'd rather have them focus on something else. They, naturally, will do as they see fit.

[Lephys]

It seems I'm not the only one who disagrees with this.

Well, then I'm sad to discover that I'm apparently the only one who doesn't disagree with it, haha. *shrug*

 

It was purely my opinion. Nothing more. It does make me think that maybe I missed something, though, or that I'm remembering it incorrectly. Mayhaps I need to re-evaluate.

 

Some of us "romance-haters" feel that, resources being limited, there's more gameplay enjoyment payoff in spending that coin elsewhere, especially as one of the biggest studios in the business makes a point of servicing "romance-lovers" already.

Try as I might, I'm really failing to see, here, how a relationship between any NPC and your main Player Character is ANY different simply for having personal/romantic interest as a basis.

 

I mean, are you suggesting that it would be fine for a character to potentially be influenced by your interactions to the point of deciding that your life is more important than theirs, and sacrificing themselves at some desperate point in the story to prevent you from dying, as long as it has nothing whatsoever to do with any amount of personal affection?

 

It just seems to me that they could spend just as much time writing oodles of stuff that amounts to the same so-called "problems" without actually having any romance or personal affection in the story, whatsoever.

 

Hell, what about family "love" relationships? Not the same thing, but OODLES of pure personal affection. The only difference is pretty much the potential for sex (which you don't even HAVE to spend resources to portray/represent in the actual gameplay/"footage," itself, really).

 

Also, this thread is about to die. 8(

[Nonek]

 

Personally i've always found deeper interactions and immersion comes from realistic depictions of characters, not the teen romances we are usually subjected to, i've certainly never thought thought of a character as lacking because they have no romantic feelings for my protagonist. If the only method of getting to know characters is through romance/sex then i'll be majorly disappointed with the game, your colleagues may simply not be attracted to your character, and that's fine I certainly wouldn't hold it against them.

 

If requiring stress relief through sex, simply visit a bawdy house, one assumes the bigger cities will have them in abundance.

 

And you think that people made couples becouse sex of teen romances from entire time ?

 

You think that 2 people can't be in "love" or deep relationship witch sexual desire with not going to "bawdy house".

 

If you think so then i deeply sorry for you ... and let me have this irrational illusion ... you got fire ball i got romance

 

 

Pardon old boy, not understanding your banter.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Frankly, the inclusion or exclusion of one type of relationship in PE ranks very low on the list of priorities I have for PE. Project Eternity will likely be the best game I play in 2014 no matter if there are no romances or if the PC can romance every NPC with more than 3 lines. The likelihood of what amounts to a few lines of dialogue breaking the game is infinitesimally miniscule.

 

I heavily dislike the BioWare romances(which range from bad Twilight-esque ego stroking to digital sex dolls) but I put the blame more on Bioware for employing sub-par writers than on the type of relationship that they are attempting to depict. Romance can add quite a bit to a story(even a video game) if done well, but it rarely is decent because unfortunately most writers are not very good at writing. Project Eternity is going to be written by Chris Avellone and George Ziets, so something tells me that the writing talent is definitely above average.

 

On the implementation of relationships, it is very bad design if the only way the PC can get to know their companions is by pursuing one type of relationship. There should be multiple types of relationships(like rivalries, friendships, mentor-student, etc.) for each companion so the player can experience a relatively equal amount of content instead of getting three one-liners because they didn't feel that the PC would want to be ass-kissingly friendly to every NPC.

[eremita]

Jeez, just don't force them (devs) to anything, that's the worst aproach. If dev writes a character and at some point feels it should be romanced, by no means, let him do it. If you feel it's right/natural for particular situation/characters, I don't see any problem. What I'm trying to say is that in regards of writing nothing good would come from conceptual "regulations". "There has to be something/doesn't have to be something without any further thinking" aproach is the best way to screw up something possibly unique... 

[FlintlockJazz]

 

Personally i've always found deeper interactions and immersion comes from realistic depictions of characters, not the teen romances we are usually subjected to, i've certainly never thought thought of a character as lacking because they have no romantic feelings for my protagonist. If the only method of getting to know characters is through romance/sex then i'll be majorly disappointed with the game, your colleagues may simply not be attracted to your character, and that's fine I certainly wouldn't hold it against them.

 

If requiring stress relief through sex, simply visit a bawdy house, one assumes the bigger cities will have them in abundance.

 

And you think that people made couples becouse sex of teen romances from entire time ?

 

You think that 2 people can't be in "love" or deep relationship witch sexual desire with not going to "bawdy house".

 

If you think so then i deeply sorry for you ... and let me have this irrational illusion ... you got fire ball i got romance

 

Sorry but this sounds like you are making a strawman argument here.  He never claimed any of the things you have stated.

[Amentep]

Nope its not dumb and it makes sense

 

I keep saying this but I'll say it again. For me if PE doesn't have Romance/Sex than the game will be lacking that deeper interaction and immersion that you get with your party members, it would be a pity. Of course the game will still be great and entertaining but for me it will be lacking something

If it has interesting, responsive character interactions that are entirely platonic, I'm not sure how you've lost anything.

 

Romantic relationships are part of the human story; I think artificially including or excluding them is a mistake - like making a painting without the color blue for no clear reason beyond not liking the color blue.

 

That said its entirely possible to create a story that is still well done without romantic relationships, just like its possible to make a painting without the color blue. The difference is between understanding how to use your tools and having a solid plan or just being arbitrary.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Amentep

[Ulquiorra]

 

If it has interesting, responsive character interactions that are entirely platonic, I'm not sure how you've lost anything.

 

 

In reality i don't see an option for plationic love unless it's one sided or "child love".

 

Tell me .. can you see 100% platonic love relationshipbeteen two people that have more then 18 years old and both of you know of feeling you have for ech other and you realy "love" one another ?

 

In reality this is domething like sexual frustration (for both genders) so if you love someone .. it whoud be soo strange to make him feel good ? ( and you by the way )

 

Im only talking about reality now .. i don't want sex scenes in PE ... only a evindence that something like this occurs ... this is not porno

Edited June 10, 2013 by Ulquiorra