Relationship/Romance Thread IV

[Ulquiorra]

I'm glad love is winning over sex. >.>;

 

Propably becouse "sex-scenes" are the only thing that someone coud say is in some way "ego-strocking" ... (im not talking about biowere sex-scenes but even a scene when everithing goues black .. and next morning you wake up next to someone (in most cases girl))

 

i think that sex is wery important part of romance but not as important from role playing side of romance ... for example you have romance .. game ends .. bla bla bla ... ending credits ... but at the end we have a scene "10 youer later ... your wife (a girl you romance in game) and your son ble ble ble)

 

So if you to have a son .. that meat you have sex .. but it isn't shown ... or forced ..

 

Everybody knows everything .. etc.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[GrumpyOldschooler]

I believe any kind of sex in all it's nice, beautiful, happy, sad, ugly, hideous forms would be good to explore, since it rarely gets explored in RPGs aside obligatory brothels and prostitutes. It doesn't need to be animated or shown at all though. Black screen is perfectly fine. The effects of it and dialogue is more interesting than the act anyway. Romance-wise I prefer good-old Baldur's Gate style. I don't really care much as long as there is no modern BioWare-style fanfiction-grade crap. Homosexual stuff is fine and can even be pretty good, but the way BioWare does it just sucks.

 

Also please no political-correctness on this field, if such is required (can't see why though, this being an indie tittle) I think it's better to throw whole sex and romance part out.

[Ulquiorra]

I believe any kind of sex in all it's nice, beautiful, happy, sad, ugly, hideous forms would be good to explore, since it rarely gets explored in RPGs aside obligatory brothels and prostitutes. It doesn't need to be animated or shown at all though. Black screen is perfectly fine. The effects of it and dialogue is more interesting than the act anyway. Romance-wise I prefer good-old Baldur's Gate style. I don't really care much as long as there is no modern BioWare-style fanfiction-grade crap. Homosexual stuff is fine and can even be pretty good, but the way BioWare does it just sucks.

 

Also please no political-correctness on this field, if such is required (can't see why though, this being an indie tittle) I think it's better to throw whole sex and romance part out.

 

 

Becouse sewyer sad this is "ego-stroking"

[GrumpyOldschooler]

 

I believe any kind of sex in all it's nice, beautiful, happy, sad, ugly, hideous forms would be good to explore, since it rarely gets explored in RPGs aside obligatory brothels and prostitutes. It doesn't need to be animated or shown at all though. Black screen is perfectly fine. The effects of it and dialogue is more interesting than the act anyway. Romance-wise I prefer good-old Baldur's Gate style. I don't really care much as long as there is no modern BioWare-style fanfiction-grade crap. Homosexual stuff is fine and can even be pretty good, but the way BioWare does it just sucks.

 

Also please no political-correctness on this field, if such is required (can't see why though, this being an indie tittle) I think it's better to throw whole sex and romance part out.

 

 

Becouse sewyer sad this is "ego-stroking"

 

I think Sawyer didn't mean all forms implied sex, since for example I don't think getting raped by a super mutant (a fine example of using sex as a part of a quest btw.) is ego-stroking. Note that I said that sex (and hell, even romance too, since no real romance is a happy-go-lucky fairy tale) should be explored in all it's uglier ways too.

 

Another fine example is that in Fallout you could sell yourself for some extra cash and in Arcanum you were forced to have sex (or steal the pass/kill him) with the owner of male-exclusive club to get in as a female. These are just some examples how sex can be used in creative ways to enchange the quests. Sex doesn't necessarily mean sugar-coated romance designed to stroke player's ego. It could very well be an asset to get what you want or even a weapon. Sometimes a weapon against you too as used by arm wrestling mutant in Fallout2.

 

Also we could argue that every "good ending" (which nets you nice compliments and huge rewards) to a quest is ego-stroking. Atleast my ego is getting stroked and I think many other egos are too.

 

Hell, New Vegas (an Obsidian game btw.) had an ending where you could literally conquer the game world by yourself. That was some of the most extreme ego-stroking stuff ever done in an RPG. Though one could argue it was created as a parody of ego-stroking, since it was so extreme and over the top.

Edited April 25, 2013 by GrumpyOldschooler

[NWN_babaYaga]

I dont need a romance in a rpg but funny or edgy companions for sure. A crazy dumb dude who randomly attacks villagers because of his terrible migraine or the creepy guy who stalks every woman, disappears by night (in towns) and is back in the morning totally exhausted or a bit bloody etc.

Edited April 25, 2013 by NWN_babaYaga

[Lephys]

I don't really care much as long as there is no modern BioWare-style fanfiction-grade crap. Homosexual stuff is fine and can even be pretty good, but the way BioWare does it just sucks.

 

Also please no political-correctness on this field, if such is required (can't see why though, this being an indie tittle) I think it's better to throw whole sex and romance part out.

I will give them credit for the way they handled the shuttle pilot (Steve? I can't remember his name now... been a while since I played through the game) in Mass Effect 3. Best handling of a homosexual character in a game I've ever seen. He was a character who happened to be gay. But, that didn't automatically make him flirt with everyone in sight, and make the story go "HEY, DID WE MENTION HE'S GAY?!". It was great. He was a really good character, too, even as a more minor character.

[BruceVC]

I want Romance but without the Sex aspect it would be a little pointless. This happened in Planescape where despite courting several party member all I got was a kiss. I found this unrealistic, so I prefer the BG2 implementation of Romance\Sex

[Sensuki]

I have a feeling you're gonna be disappoint.

[Ulquiorra]

I have a feeling you're gonna be disappoint.

 

This will not be the first time im disappointed by some game

[Chairchucker]

I want Romance but without the Sex aspect it would be a little pointless. This happened in Planescape where despite courting several party member all I got was a kiss. I found this unrealistic, so I prefer the BG2 implementation of Romance\Sex

 

You found it unrealistic that someone could develop a romantic interest in someone else and not immediately have sex with them?

 

My opinion is roughly the opposite of yours.

[eschaton]

For roleplaying purposes, the game should provide options to be anything from a lecherous lout to celibate, straight or gay, and not restrict you in any manner.

 

However, the responses of the NPCs should be realistic.  Modern Bioware romances steadily got worse and worse because the characters acted more like fantasy dolls than people.  Essentially every one you could make a pass at you could end up bedding, if you played the "mating game" right.  DAII was the worst in terms of this, because it even threw sexual orientation out the window seemingly.  

 

So I'd say the ideal is that you can attempt to "seduce" anyone in your party.  Assuming you're playing, for example, a straight male, chances are that only one companion would be potentially interested in you (who could depend upon how you create your character, and how you roleplay the early portions).  If you're playing a straight female, you'd probably be able to get half the men in the party to sleep with you if you really tried, but most would never actually want to "romance" you, and you might scare away the one who has if you come on too strong (or repulse them if they see you making a pass at someone else).  

[Rahelron]

Still don't get why there are all these romance haters. Chill out, if you want your character to be a mysanthropic loner just roleplay as such and avoid falling in love with anyone.

[BruceVC]

 

I want Romance but without the Sex aspect it would be a little pointless. This happened in Planescape where despite courting several party member all I got was a kiss. I found this unrealistic, so I prefer the BG2 implementation of Romance\Sex

 

You found it unrealistic that someone could develop a romantic interest in someone else and not immediately have sex with them?

 

My opinion is roughly the opposite of yours.

 

 

No I found it unrealistic that person could traverse the planes, meet alien creatures, kill demons, discover he is immortal but somehow not have sex with a party member who is inextricably linked to him and he is attracted to

[Ulquiorra]

 

 

I want Romance but without the Sex aspect it would be a little pointless. This happened in Planescape where despite courting several party member all I got was a kiss. I found this unrealistic, so I prefer the BG2 implementation of Romance\Sex

 

You found it unrealistic that someone could develop a romantic interest in someone else and not immediately have sex with them?

 

My opinion is roughly the opposite of yours.

 

 

No I found it unrealistic that person could traverse the planes, meet alien creatures, kill demons, discover he is immortal but somehow not have sex with a party member who is inextricably linked to him and he is attracted to

 

 

Your character can be atracted but she may be not. But still it whoud be almost imposible for character meets aliens, demons, dragons, killed 10 00 000 00 orcs saved world at least 2 times and still had never meet any chick (even outside the party) thet he is atracted to (and so is she)

[AGX-17]

Still don't get why there are all these romance haters. Chill out, if you want your character to be a mysanthropic loner just roleplay as such and avoid falling in love with anyone.

The main experience of this for most people recently is coming from Bioware, and Bioware's characters (DAII's being the worst offenders,) seem to be increasingly designed around wanting to crash into your character crotch-first. Even innocuous-looking dialogue in the infamous dialogue wheels often leads to responses from characters along the lines of "Oh, you do want to fondle my throbbing phallus, wonderful! Let us proceed to the fondling in suspiciously modern underwear scene posthaste!" in DAII. It goes without saying that Obsidian's not about to pull that sort of crap, but at the same time it's known that MCA, for example, hates having to write romances in games, so if a writer's not into it to begin with, it's not going to end up being very good.

 

 

 

 

I want Romance but without the Sex aspect it would be a little pointless. This happened in Planescape where despite courting several party member all I got was a kiss. I found this unrealistic, so I prefer the BG2 implementation of Romance\Sex

 

You found it unrealistic that someone could develop a romantic interest in someone else and not immediately have sex with them?

 

My opinion is roughly the opposite of yours.

 

 

No I found it unrealistic that person could traverse the planes, meet alien creatures, kill demons, discover he is immortal but somehow not have sex with a party member who is inextricably linked to him and he is attracted to

 

Maybe he had high enough wisdom to consider the negative implications of an immortal who loses his memory every time he dies and resurrects becoming romantically involved with a person who he might outlive by millennia, if not eternity.

Edited June 5, 2013 by AGX-17

[Micamo]

The main experience of this for most people recently is coming from Bioware, and Bioware's characters (DAII's being the worst offenders,) seem to be increasingly designed around wanting to crash into your character crotch-first. Even innocuous-looking dialogue in the infamous dialogue wheels often leads to responses from characters along the lines of "Oh, you do want to fondle my throbbing phallus, wonderful! Let us proceed to the fondling in suspiciously modern underwear scene posthaste!" in DAII. It goes without saying that Obsidian's not about to pull that sort of crap, but at the same time it's known that MCA, for example, hates having to write romances in games, so if a writer'

[Rahelron]

 

The main experience of this for most people recently is coming from Bioware, and Bioware's characters (DAII's being the worst offenders,) seem to be increasingly designed around wanting to crash into your character crotch-first. Even innocuous-looking dialogue in the infamous dialogue wheels often leads to responses from characters along the lines of "Oh, you do want to fondle my throbbing phallus, wonderful! Let us proceed to the fondling in suspiciously modern underwear scene posthaste!" in DAII. It goes without saying that Obsidian's not about to pull that sort of crap, but at the same time it's known that MCA, for example, hates having to write romances in games, so if a writer'

 

 

1- Obsidian is not bioware.

2- MCA is not the only writer Obsidian has.

[Ulquiorra]

The main experience of this for most people recently is coming from Bioware, and Bioware's characters (DAII's being the worst offenders,) seem to be increasingly designed around wanting to crash into your character crotch-first. Even innocuous-looking dialogue in the infamous dialogue wheels often leads to responses from characters along the lines of "Oh, you do want to fondle my throbbing phallus, wonderful! Let us proceed to the fondling in suspiciously modern underwear scene posthaste!" in DAII. It goes without saying that Obsidian's not about to pull that sort of crap, but at the same time it's known that MCA, for example, hates having to write romances in games, so if a writer's not into it to begin with, it's not going to end up being very good.

 

1. The first games in D&D setting that had romances was BG 2 and Torment.

2. Biowere "optional" romances and all "D&D" type of romances where created long after first romances in games for example in most jrpg's like final fantasy.

3. We all know that in this side are almost no-one from "Biowere romance fanboys/girls" This forum is stricty anti-biowerish so jo implication is not good.

4. The funny thing is that the most og "biowere" romance hater are people that never played then (so why even you know they where bad ?)

5. MCA is not only writher for example Zient helped create the romance from NWN2 Mask campain and whoud be good writher for that.

6. If some writher dont like writhing about humans interactions in general or even talking (for example like to write combat narration or other narrated events) does it mean that in game shoud be none talking to a companions ?

7. The most funny thing is that nobody mention Jrpgs romances they where better then western and they had been in this type of games way before western (like biowere) romances.

[Micamo]

Dammit, the forum decided to eat my post and it's too late to edit. Sorry about that, I'll just re-post what I was trying to say there:

 

- Bioware games have romance arcs.

 

- I hate Bioware games.

 

- Therefore, if Eternity has romance arcs, I will hate Eternity.

 

Flawless implication there. Look, it's fine to argue Eternity shouldn't have romance arcs (maybe you think the tone isn't right for them or they'd distract from other companion interactions) but to say Eternity shouldn't have them because Bioware did it poorly is just plain silly.

 

Also, while I'm posting I might as well give my opinion: I don't really care, honestly. If a game has that sort of thing, sure, I'll do it. If it doesn't, I won't miss it.

 

Two asides: First, why does everyone point out Dragon Age 2 when there are bioware games that are far, FAR worse examples?

 

Second... I'm not gonna call myself a JRPG affectionado, but I've never, ever played a JRPG with romance arcs that I would call anything but horrible. They're always just taken for granted. Of course the heroine falls in love with the hero, that's just how stories work, there's no reason to explain it or justify it or build up to it or play with it at all, it just happens.

[Ulquiorra]

Second... I'm not gonna call myself a JRPG affectionado, but I've never, ever played a JRPG with romance arcs that I would call anything but horrible. They're always just taken for granted. Of course the heroine falls in love with the hero, that's just how stories work, there's no reason to explain it or justify it or build up to it or play with it at all, it just happens.

 

Falling in "love" isint a crime. I agre that in JRPGs where romances that where not good or iritaiting. But JRPGs are like Anime, there are awsome animes and silly ones.

 

I watched harem animes that have 8-12 girls falling in love with some kid that is bringing nothing to the table. But i also seen romances where a partagonist was a character that whoud EAT 12 this kind or boys with i move .. (im talking about personality not power).

 

Still even if this is biowere romances i whoud still live and play them ... The worst romance i ever seen was Elanee romance from NWN2. Even lesbian/ alien cross romance from Mass Effect 1 was better ... sigh ...

[Chairchucker]

 

 

I want Romance but without the Sex aspect it would be a little pointless. This happened in Planescape where despite courting several party member all I got was a kiss. I found this unrealistic, so I prefer the BG2 implementation of Romance\Sex

 

You found it unrealistic that someone could develop a romantic interest in someone else and not immediately have sex with them?

 

My opinion is roughly the opposite of yours.

 

 

No I found it unrealistic that person could traverse the planes, meet alien creatures, kill demons, discover he is immortal but somehow not have sex with a party member who is inextricably linked to him and he is attracted to

 

 

The Nameless one is inextricably linked to every one of his party members. Did you find it unrealistic that he didn't have sex with Ignus? The inextricable link is not necessarily linked to an urge to fornicate in any of those examples. Including the example of Annah. Including the example of Grace. And most of what you've written there has absolutely nothing to do with sex. He traversed the planes and killed demons so obviously he's going to want to have sex? Complete nonsense.

 

And the idea that love implies that two characters will have sex immediately is a very mass media influenced one.

[Rahelron]

Dammit, the forum decided to eat my post and it's too late to edit. Sorry about that, I'll just re-post what I was trying to say there:

 

- Bioware games have romance arcs.

 

- I hate Bioware games.

 

- Therefore, if Eternity has romance arcs, I will hate Eternity.

 

Flawless implication there.

 

 

What??

 

Go study Aristotle man.

 

A valid implication would have been:

- I hate all games that feature romance arcs.

- Project eternity will feature romance arcs.

- I'll hate project eternity.

But the first premise is false: you said that you hate bioware games, not games that feature romance arcs, didn't you?

So this inference is invalid.

 

Second possibility:

- All games that feature romance arcs are bioware games.

- I hate bioware games.

- I hate games that feature romance arcs.

But since the first premise is false the whole inference is fallacious.

 

 

A valid implication with your premises would have been:

- Bioware games have romance arcs.

- I hate Bioware games.

- Therefore, if Project eternity is a Bioware game, I will hate it.

But since Project Eternity is not a Bioware game you can stay shure you won't hate it.

 

 

As you see logic never faults: put the blame of crappy romance arcs on Bioware, not on romances themselves.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Rahelron

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

I want Romance but without the Sex aspect it would be a little pointless. This happened in Planescape where despite courting several party member all I got was a kiss. I found this unrealistic, so I prefer the BG2 implementation of Romance\Sex

 

You found it unrealistic that someone could develop a romantic interest in someone else and not immediately have sex with them?

 

My opinion is roughly the opposite of yours.

 

 

No I found it unrealistic that person could traverse the planes, meet alien creatures, kill demons, discover he is immortal but somehow not have sex with a party member who is inextricably linked to him and he is attracted to

 

 

The Nameless one is inextricably linked to every one of his party members. Did you find it unrealistic that he didn't have sex with Ignus? The inextricable link is not necessarily linked to an urge to fornicate in any of those examples. Including the example of Annah. Including the example of Grace. And most of what you've written there has absolutely nothing to do with sex. He traversed the planes and killed demons so obviously he's going to want to have sex? Complete nonsense.

 

And the idea that love implies that two characters will have sex immediately is a very mass media influenced one.

 

 

You clearly didn't understand my point so I'll explain it slowly. Sex is normal and in times of stress sex is a coping mechanism. We already know that the Nameless one had relationships with people so logically he would have had sex in his travels, you mustn't see sex as taboo in Planescape. If he is on this great journey of self discovery and gets to the point where he may end his existence he would obviously want to experience some sort of physical  closeness to a member of the party who he already had an emotional connection with . So yes the logical corollary of this would be sex. In my case this was with Annah. You seem fine with the parts of his personality and actions that include killing demons and visiting strange worlds but the thought of the Nameless One wanting to have sex is nonsense to you. No offense but I find your view on this matter bizarre

 

I also like my RPG experience  to be similar to the fantasy books I read and enjoy. I like Conan and in that world he has sex with various people and it makes sense.

 

Oh and I would have liked to have sex with Ignus if there was an emotional  connection but for me there wasn't

[Micamo]

What??

 

Go study Aristotle man.

 

Uhh,I'm aware of this. I was being sarcastic. <.<

 

You clearly didn't understand my point so I'll explain it slowly. Sex is normal and in times of stress sex is a coping mechanism.

 

Turning to sex in times of stress as a coping mechanism is a sign of a pretty serious type of nervous breakdown. It is not representative of healthy human behavior. Normal humans in a fight-or-flight situation have sex as the last thing on their minds.

 

Anyway unless you go out of your way to rest all the time to advance the clock Planescape: Torment doesn't take very long in in-game time. Realistically speaking I'd say Annah got too fond of TNO too quickly. Besides, the arc didn't need it, it was fine the way it was.

[Lephys]

 

What??

 

 

Go study Aristotle man.

 

Uhh,I'm aware of this. I was being sarcastic. <.<

 

Si. I believe Micamo was pointing out, via sarcasm, that it's silly to conclude that if you don't like Bioware games, then anything that can be found in a Bioware game must be something you hate, rather than actually pinpointing what it is you don't like about them, specifically.

 

Turning to sex in times of stress as a coping mechanism is a sign of a pretty serious type of nervous breakdown. It is not representative of healthy human behavior. Normal humans in a fight-or-flight situation have sex as the last thing on their minds.

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to get at with "fight-or-flight situation" there, but I highly doubt BruceVC is referring to something along the lines of the following:

 

"Man, walking down this path sure is nice. You're pretty cool."

"Yeah, you too. Yay, paths..."

*Wild Tiger appears*

"OMG! A TIGER! QUICK! SEX!!! NOW!!!"

"Wait... shouldn't we probably fle-"

"NO! SEX! IT'LL HELP ME COPE WITH THE APPEARANCE OF THIS VORACIOUS TIGER!"