Quests that are unsolvable for certain characters

[Jojobobo]

So I was curious if this issue bothered anyone else or not: Say you are given a quest, and it is forever out of your means to solve because of how you've built your character. You didn't realise this when you accepted the quest, and now you don't have a save you can revert to before you took it on as the realisation it is now impossible only dawned on you quite late. Short of killing the quest giver which for this example you don't want to do - maybe they're a really useful merchant or something - you cannot fail the quest. It is always going to be there in your journal, staring you in the face for the rest of the game, almost mocking your inability to accomplish what a different character could.

 

This bothers the crap out of me for no particular reason apart from I like resolution. Even if I fail a quest, that's more resolution than not being able to do anything about it at all. I hate looking at pointless quest entries in my journal every god damn time I open it up, and there's quite a few games where this has happened to me in the past. Does this irritate anyone else or is it just me?

 

Solutions that spring to mind are for one have all quests solvable by any character type or if they're not then the quest isn't open to that character type in the first place. Or just have another means of failing the quest short of killing the quest giver. Maybe there are others, I don't know and I don't particularly care; all I care about is there is some means of resolving every quest for every character even if that means failing the quest. /rant

[Pipyui]

I think this bothers everybody to some degree. I doubt there will be quests that your party can't handle, even if your PC himself isn't suited for them. For that regard though, I would like to be able to fail quests, either accidentally or intentionally. Even if this means just being able to drop quests from my journal (should I have to return to the quest giver to explain my failure? I don't know).

[80Maxwell08]

When I opened this I thought you were talking about having different quests depending on character builds. I'n not very good at guessing.

 

On topic I agree with you. I don't mind some quests not being available depending on certain classes or races but I certainly don't want quests that are unsolvable. If I can't do the quest it shouldn't give it to me. I am a bit curious how a quest would be impossible considering having different companions and the adventurer's hall though but is it right to force someone to use those even for side quests? Maybe if you talk to the quest-giver they should say something about you not having the right skill they need or talking to themselves about how they wish someone who could sneak around or bake.

[Hormalakh]

So I was curious if this issue bothered anyone else or not: Say you are given a quest, and it is forever out of your means to solve because of how you've built your character. You didn't realise this when you accepted the quest, and now you don't have a save you can revert to before you took it on as the realisation it is now impossible only dawned on you quite late. Short of killing the quest giver which for this example you don't want to do - maybe they're a really useful merchant or something - you cannot fail the quest. It is always going to be there in your journal, staring you in the face for the rest of the game, almost mocking your inability to accomplish what a different character could.

 

This bothers the crap out of me for no particular reason apart from I like resolution. Even if I fail a quest, that's more resolution than not being able to do anything about it at all. I hate looking at pointless quest entries in my journal every god damn time I open it up, and there's quite a few games where this has happened to me in the past. Does this irritate anyone else or is it just me?

 

Solutions that spring to mind are for one have all quests solvable by any character type or if they're not then the quest isn't open to that character type in the first place. Or just have another means of failing the quest short of killing the quest giver. Maybe there are others, I don't know and I don't particularly care; all I care about is there is some means of resolving every quest for every character even if that means failing the quest. /rant

 

Seeing as how you've got an Arcanum portrait as your avatar, I thought you'd have at least mentioned that Arcanum does a good job of this. You can have quests that are mentioned but not accepted unless the NPC giving it to you does a skill check and you pass that check. Then you have two people giving the same quest on opposite sides of the coin (good vs evil for example) and when you finish that qust, you automatically botch one or the other and it shows it on your quest journal in that way.

 

That was a good way of doing this.

[Jojobobo]

Seeing as how you've got an Arcanum portrait as your avatar, I thought you'd have at least mentioned that Arcanum does a good job of this. You can have quests that are mentioned but not accepted unless the NPC giving it to you does a skill check and you pass that check. Then you have two people giving the same quest on opposite sides of the coin (good vs evil for example) and when you finish that qust, you automatically botch one or the other and it shows it on your quest journal in that way.

 

That was a good way of doing this.

Naah, I got lazy. But yes that is a nice example of how Arcanum dealt with it.

[Rosveen]

Yes. If you're given a quest, there should be a way to legitimately solve it or fail it. There's nothing more annoying than quests stuck in your journal.

[Kecaw]

Well i second to you on that, but if it's possible i would like to see some different play in the same quest (depending on your character class/race/aligment or even gender) BUT saying that the quest should be solvable for everyone or if you balls it up to fail hard.

[Sacred_Path]

Like others said, having a full party should remedy all problems (unless they required your whole party to sneak... which is a good idea). But in principle it's almost essential for single player games.

[Thangorodrim]

I think there should be some class specific quests (based on your main character) and possibly some race specific quests ... I don't have a problem with level specific quests either (you have to have a minimum level or renown before being offered one of these quests) ... however, I think if you don't meet the criteria of the quest then it shouldn't even be offered to you ...

 

they should also try and make sure there aren't broken quests ... this was something that drove me crazy in Elder Scrolls Oblivion when the character I needed for a quest had been killed ... those really drove me crazy, especially since some of them were important side quests

[Heresiarch]

I think if you have a quest that you could finish in the first place, but cannot do so anymore should be marked as failed. So you don't break your head over it, trying to find a way to complete the quest that isn't there.

[Archmage Silver]

There needs to be a certain amount of these, otherwise the replayability factor of the game is resting solely on choosing a different class and a different set of companions. In my opinion the situations these kind of quests should be present in are as follows:

• Class-Specific Quests - Wizards Aren't Paladins¹
  
• Fame/Infamy Quests - Your Reputation Precedes You ²
  
• Skill/Attribute Quests - Barbarians Make Poor Diplomats³
  
• Affiliation/Guild Quests - You're Not An Insider ⁴
  

1. Classes should have at least one class-specific quest, e.g. Paladins should get a quest from their Order. No sense in other classes being able to get, much less solve these quests.

2. You'll get a certain reputation with people depending on how you act in the world. If you're known locally as a ruthless mercenary who isn't shy to butcher anyone who gets in your way, you're not likely to do much business with the pacifist priests in the Temple District.

3. If you have an unkempt appearance and your oratory skills are less-than-convincing, you'd be hard pressed to find employment with anyone seeking a diplomatic solution to a problem.

4. If you join the Thieves Guild in one city, the City Guard in that city might not offer you any work. Try the other city, and the City Guard there might not care about your affiliations in the other city.

 

That's my take on this topic.

[Odd Hermit]

As long as there is some way to discard or hide them. It is annoying having quest junk clutter your journal and/or inventory in any game.

 

I think it makes your choices a bit more meaningful if you're limited by them occasionally. Of course, it's wasted content if they put too much of it in with too specific requirements, so there has to be a balance of sorts.

[Hassat Hunter]

Everything should be solvable, if not ideally of course. Doing otherwise and having it permanently stuck in your journal, heck no!

 

If for some reason a quest is somehow not for you it definitely should never be given to you in the first place.

I wouldn't mind getting a quest though you cannot finish "properly", except with another class, so when you try it it fails on you. Nice hint for what there is else to do a next game, and remind the player (s)he can't do everything.

For example to save NPC1 you need to cast a certain spell. Don't have that (since no wizard) the NPC dies, quest failed...

[Starglider]

If you got into this situation it would be because the designers over-focused on the protagonist and failed to let the other party members behave realistically. If you need a specific skill, class, race or gender for a particular task you should be able to recruit a companion who can do the task for the group. Although wherever possible there should be multiple ways of solving each problem.

[temporalTemptation]

I think most quests should have multiple ways of solving them but certain quests will just be harder, if not impossible, to solve based on how you've acted or how you've built your character. However, it shouldn't come across as arbitrary, there should be a clear causal link between the way your characters are and the quest that they can't solve. That said, there should be enough ways of solving something so that it doesn't feel like you're forever sealing off solving certain quests every time you take an action.

 

Also, on a personal note, I really like the idea of completely imposssible quests. For example, as a joke, a barkeeper asks every adventurer that comes his way asking after quests, to fetch him a left-handed beer mug for one of his customers. Of course, there's no such thing as a left-handed beer mug, and he's essentially trolling you, expecting you to run across the city, searching for this non-existent item, looking like a plonker as you ask after it. I don't know why, but something about NPCs tricking you, not out of greed or maliciousness, but out of pure whimsy strikes me as appealing.

[Hassat Hunter]

And then you craft a left-handed beer mug and show him who's boss

[Crusader_bin]

What you described is essentially a bug. 15 people on the pool likes bugs, huh...

 

I don't even like the looped quests, ie. for every bandit scalp you get gold, or things like that. I am a completionist and I like to do every quests I can with current build, hanging quests are an eyesore for me.

 

That is I might accept one of those quests, as long as they are intentional and - let's say - are not a fetch quests. I just find it hard to imagine what it could be... Even the quest like the above with the mug should have SOME sort of a way to complete it. Like roasting the barkeeper with a fireball or just bad mouthing him if you play evil characters or doing a wisdom check and proving all his mugs are - in fact - only left handed (for good characters).

 

Just what I think.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Crusader_bin

[PsychoBlonde]

What really gets my goat about unsolvable quests is when they let you pick up the quest and complete 80-some percent of it and only THEN, after you've done all the grunt work clearing the demons out of the privy pit and they're dangling the reward in front of you, only THEN do you find out that YOU CANNOT COMPLETE THIS QUEST AND IT WILL HOVER UNCOMPLETED IN YOUR JOURNAL FOREVER BWAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

THAT, I hate with the white-hot heat of 10,000 suns.

 

If, on the other hand, you cannot even GET the quest if you do not fulfill the requirements, I don't mind in the least. It can even be a lot of fun on playthrough #2 to come to an area that seemed to lack interest and, whoa, surprise bonus quest!

[AGX-17]

So I was curious if this issue bothered anyone else or not: Say you are given a quest, and it is forever out of your means to solve because of how you've built your character. You didn't realise this when you accepted the quest, and now you don't have a save you can revert to before you took it on as the realisation it is now impossible only dawned on you quite late. Short of killing the quest giver which for this example you don't want to do - maybe they're a really useful merchant or something - you cannot fail the quest. It is always going to be there in your journal, staring you in the face for the rest of the game, almost mocking your inability to accomplish what a different character could.

 

This bothers the crap out of me for no particular reason apart from I like resolution. Even if I fail a quest, that's more resolution than not being able to do anything about it at all. I hate looking at pointless quest entries in my journal every god damn time I open it up, and there's quite a few games where this has happened to me in the past. Does this irritate anyone else or is it just me?

 

Solutions that spring to mind are for one have all quests solvable by any character type or if they're not then the quest isn't open to that character type in the first place. Or just have another means of failing the quest short of killing the quest giver. Maybe there are others, I don't know and I don't particularly care; all I care about is there is some means of resolving every quest for every character even if that means failing the quest. /rant

 

I don't believe Obsidian intends to design PE in such a way. They have repeatedly said they want all builds to be viable (try paying attention to their updates,) and that they want players to have equal access to both combat and non-combat skills without being forced to choose between one or the other.

[Hassat Hunter]

15 people on the pool likes bugs, huh...

You'd be surprised how many people like bugs. Especially exploits.

 

The amount of times I was asked NOT to fix a bug in TSL or re-introduce it in a new version is astounding.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

I think it's poor game design if a character can not solve a quest. There should always be at least one method to complete a task, whether through diplomatic means, fighting, presenting a token or barter of some kind, etc. Just because they're the wrong class, or lack a proficiency shouldn't exclude them immediately from achieving the task at hand. They may have to find another solution, but the character(s) should always be able to avance.

[Corvus Metus]

If I can't do a quest, I shouldn't get it. If something happens, I'm required to talk to a certain NPC, and I've killed that person, I should get a "quest failed" comment.

[TrashMan]

I don't mind it.

It feels like real life to not be able to accomplish everything and solve every problem.

 

 

And to remove it for the Jounral, isnt' there almsot always a Drop Quest bottun these days? Problem solved.

[Hassat Hunter]

isnt' there almsot always a Drop Quest bottun these days? Problem solved.

I certainly hope there wont be one in PE. This isn't a MMORPG after all.