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Update #29: Fulfillment and the Pros and Cons of Nostalgia and Realism

project eternity update 29 armor fulfillment josh sawyer darren monahan

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#301
Krios

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Thanks for update on fulfilment site. Will this mean when the fulfilment page goes live, the donations will close? It has been some time since the kickstarter ended. Should be more than enough time for anyone wanting to get on board, to get on board. Also will be kickstarter site be updated anymore? Or should I just come here for updates?

#302
Gyges

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Werent there supposed to be an update today? Or was that a bi-weekly thing?

#303
rjshae

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Werent there supposed to be an update today? Or was that a bi-weekly thing?

Per the original message:

Our next design update will be in two weeks and will focus on lore and story elements. Thanks for reading!

Anything else, we get when we get.

#304
Ieo

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Our next design update will be in two weeks and will focus on lore and story elements. Thanks for reading!

Anything else, we get when we get.


Hmm. I'm torn. Lore is interesting and will color the directions that a story might go. But I don't want to be spoiled about the story specifically (I mean, went into the Baldur's Gate series and Planescape Torment completely blind--quite the experience).

~siiiiiiiiiigh~ Might have to skip the next update. :ermm:

As for update frequency, I honestly wouldn't mind once a month. I expect the work after this design stage to be rather mundane and extremely technical, something we have no need to know about.... so I'd actually rather they sketch out the basics of their update content releases all the way to 2014, and once a month seems about right for that for the top end of frequency.

#305
Nomine Vacans

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~siiiiiiiiiigh~ Might have to skip the next update. :ermm:

I think that the basic lore and concepts is what every character should have some superficial ideas or at least to heard something about it. Therefore there is no point to avoid any lore updates, especialy on early stage like this.

#306
Cantousent

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Yeah, I tend to think that whatever we see in this particular forum, will be common knowledge. I can definitely see what you're saying, Ieo, especially since I feel the same way, but I think Comedian is right.

#307
Jorian Drake

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No worries. Josh, Chris, and all the others know how bad spoiling a story can be, I assume the info will be mostly everyday knowledge about the world and its lore, nothing too revealing.
Although I do hope they might go more into detail on the ability to customize character/shield, and what there is to know about owning land/castle (if possible even a whole city) in the game, I always loved the possibility to own and upgrade territory like in BG2 or NWN2 and would love to see this option explored more with a more detailed option allowing to train and equip (city/castle) guards with quality gear with your CoA/banner on it. Plus construct some additional buildings for yourself or NPC housing.

Edited by Jorian Drake, 08 November 2012 - 08:48 PM.


#308
Ieo

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~siiiiiiiiiigh~ Might have to skip the next update. :ermm:

I think that the basic lore and concepts is what every character should have some superficial ideas or at least to heard something about it. Therefore there is no point to avoid any lore updates, especialy on early stage like this.

Yeah, I tend to think that whatever we see in this particular forum, will be common knowledge. I can definitely see what you're saying, Ieo, especially since I feel the same way, but I think Comedian is right.


Oh, I have no problem with lore per se (I did know a bit of the lore for Baldur's Gate at least), but there was mention of "story elements." :) So I'm just hemming and hawing about that, however nebulous the term might be for the purposes of an update...

#309
Dawn_

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I wonder when we will see Chris tied up to a chair with only food and water forced to play Arcanum for 24 hours.

That's the update i am the most impatient to see.


I imagine this as Chris on a sunday; someone ring at his door; he open; then 3 guys with mask kidnap him and take him in a car.
He then get wake up tied up on a chair in an old basement with Tim picking up the bag he had over his head playing a remake of the joker to him (with make up and all "So, you've never played Arcanum?!").

Edited by Dawn_, 09 November 2012 - 03:33 AM.


#310
Jorian Drake

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I wonder when we will see Chris tied up to a chair with only food and water forced to play Arcanum for 24 hours.

That's the update i am the most impatient to see.

Actually:

I demand a youtube video playthrough series about him playing Arcanum from start till end with some comments, I am damn sure many only gave money for the project to see him play it to begin with XD

Without such a proof there won't be evidence he ever got forced to play it from start until end.

#311
Thumister

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For me; I guess it depends on what you're trying to achieve. I probably most enjoyed the armor system in Mythus where you had "body areas" (chest, armor, head, legs, etc.) and you attached armor to those (curiass, greaves, helmet, etc.). Rather than 1 armor score for a player, you had an armor score for each area that was a total for all the armor on that body area. That was kind of a pain for humans to keep track of on a character record sheet, but something that a computer keeps track of very easily. I don't really feel like the goal needs to be to exactly recreate the feeling of D&D, which frankly had kind of a limiting armor system as you point out. Of course, if that actually *is* the goal, then I'm fine with that too. :D

#312
Cantousent

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I'm not judging, only noting, that I don't understand why folks care about one of the dev team playing arcanum or whatnot. I guess I can understand wanting someone to play the game because of the examples, both good and bad, that it can provide, but I don't understand why it seems *so* important to some folks. Probably most of you are just joking around about it.

I think the game I'd like most folks to have played would be the gold box SSI games, but I don't think someone who didn't play computer games back in the day would understand.

#313
Ramnexus

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Looking at this issue from a different perspective, there is a lesson from the field of modern military science that occurs to me. It goes something like this in order of priority for the soldier:

1 don't be there (be aware where the enemy is looking and avoid them)
2 don't be seen by the enemy (use camouflage & concealment)
3 don't be hit by the enemy (take cover - manouvre)
4 don't let the round penetrate (body armor)
5 don't let the round kill (highest protection to most vital spots)

Ok so this goes beyond a discussion of armor protection (which is really point 4) but perhaps some of the relative benefits of different armor are that they aid in points 1, 2, 3 and 5. So the rough ranger with the weather-worn hide may score low on point 4, but he scores a lot higher on 2 and 3 than his mate in field plate.


#314
Hoku

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As a general thing, connecting the characteristics and/or properties of something, such as an armor, to something else, such as a culture, a school of magic or a creature, does have the benefit of further defining the thing which is referred to, which can give both starting points from which to add lore, or ways to give the player a sense of the relevant lore without actually letting it take up "too much" space in the game, and so is in my opinion often the best way to go, based on constructive function and efficiency.

Meaning that if a high-class chainmail is made out of "Valyrian Steel", one immediately imagines "Valyria" as a country of skilled blacksmiths, which means that they're a strong and straightforward people, not minding to get their hands dirty, who know how to appreciate skill and craftsmanship.
If "Valyria" is a place to which you can never arrive, one will then have gotten a rather detailed image of the people and culture without you having to write a single line about it, while, if you *are* able to ge there, it gives you the opportunity to chock the player by, for example, completely crushing his image upon arrival.
Etc.

#315
Cykoth

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On to the Armor topic.....I think some science background might help with reasons to wear different types of armor. I'm assuming that there will be various types of elemental damage in the game. Fire, Ice, Electrical, Poison, Acid that sort of thing. I think persons in heavy plate armor would be at a severe disadvantage to the conductivity of metal.


I like this approach, it makes each armor type feel unique.

Something similar has already been seen in Arcanum and Fallout. For example, Arcanum's plate armors caused the wearer to suffer more damage from electrical attacks while Fallout's metal and Tesla armors were better at deflecting laser beams than most other armor types.

Scientifically that's backwards. The better conductivity of metal armor would cause electrical attacks to channel around the wearer and into the ground.

http://jockohomo.tum...h-voltage-tesla

Heat and cold would be a problem though; they should just go right through to the inner padding.

I submit that it is not scientifically backwards, unless you assume that by wearing plate armor you are essentially wearing a perfect Faraday cage which would in fact ground electrical attacks leaving the wearer perfectly intact. But the ability to be perfectly grounded I would suggest is extremely remote, and that in fact you would be cooked like a lobster wearing plate.

#316
Cykoth

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I'm not judging, only noting, that I don't understand why folks care about one of the dev team playing arcanum or whatnot. I guess I can understand wanting someone to play the game because of the examples, both good and bad, that it can provide, but I don't understand why it seems *so* important to some folks. Probably most of you are just joking around about it.

I think the game I'd like most folks to have played would be the gold box SSI games, but I don't think someone who didn't play computer games back in the day would understand.

Ah the goldboxes! I miss those....they were a huge improvement graphically and tactically over The Bards Tale and Eye of the Beholder.

#317
loufoque

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This has probably been said before, but the obvious way to make armor more unique is to have different types of damage, and make different armor protect differently against certain types of damage.
This way, you might have to switch armor depending on what enemy type you're most likely to fight.

It can be different types of non-magic damage (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning, ranged, thrown), magic damage (elemental) or situational (backstab and other trickery) all combined together.

This would also allow to make different weapon types really useful.

#318
loufoque

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You might want to consider ranged/thrown as piercing to simplify things.
You could also add a few replaceable gem slots on the armor for added protection against magic or other effects. They could be replaced according to the user's needs for more situational customization.

#319
Cantousent

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they were a huge improvement graphically and tactically over The Bards Tale and Eye of the Beholder.

That's true, but I sometimes miss those old games also. I especially remember enjoying the Eye of the Beholder. I should see if there's a GoG version I can play.

I can see ranged/thrown in two different ways. I think Firearms maybe should be a category in its own right since, although it is piercing, it's effects are greater than a starndard piercing projectile like an arrow or spear and have effects different in kind.

#320
mcmercy

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Hi!

Maybe you should consider the thing that each type of armor has special abilities beside the simple idea of protection. You told about the issue that a plate mail gives you a penalty on dexterity, this sounds realistic. Think about designing armor for special purpose. For example a hide or fur armour could give you a bonus on frost resistance so this would be your best choice when fighting in snowy areas or against a frost dragon, prefered by vikings or barbarians from the north. A plate mail could give resistance to electric magic but prevent you from swimming, we see the witch hunters on the plains with that. Leather gives you a bonus when sneaking while metal armour makes some noise. So the player might have different armours for different situations or even better choose different companions for a given quest. I think companions should be unique, in the first way it sound great when every character can wear every armour but it makes them ordinary. I think a knight should look like a knight and a wizard like a wizard and not vice versa. And a wizard in plate mail is just a paladin isn't he?





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