Ammo?

[Aoyagi]

Well, it's quite simple - are we going to get ammo for guns, bows, crossbows, slingshots and whatnot or are they going to be ammo-free and shoot infinitely? If there is going to be ammo, will it be only one type (of bullets, arrows, stones) like in Diablo, leveled kinds similar to Elder Scrolls (wooden, stony, iron, steel, obsidian), enchantable like in NWN (and possibly any other D&D game)(+1 fire damage, 30% stun chance) or mix of the two above?

 

 

I hate doing polls, makes me feel like an attention woor, but this question is rather important to me and I didn't find the answer :S

Edited October 24, 2012 by Aoyagi

[Aoyagi]

No, it was a pain to micro manage the ammo for 6 party members in IE games and have dozen different ammo types that you only used +x versions. Especially in unmodded version when you only could have 100 in a bundle and inventory was full of arrows. And the bonuses were marginal you've got more from stats of character and weapon itself.

I can imagine that, stacking limitations for ammo can be a pain in the a*se, but if it was unlimited or very high? It's not very realistic, but realism is not very fun in this case, as you pointed out.

 

Edit: That also brings me to next question - will inventory be space limited, weight limited or both? But that's for another discussion ^^

Edited October 24, 2012 by Aoyagi

[Jarmo]

Replaying BG2 now with a base party of 3 + occasional temporaries and trying to keep sane while managing inventory is just pants.

With NWN system and plenty of storage bags it'd be ok. Even plenty of backpacks would be enough.

 

The problem's not maintaining enough ammo, it's the psychological inability of tossing away perfectly good magic items instead of hauling them to a shop.

Which could be fixed by not having valuable magic items in game to begin with.

 

--

BTW, it was max of 40 arrows per bunch in BG2.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Jarmo

[SeekDWay]

Some NWN style variety would be nice, but getting a Quiver of Holding later on in the game would be awesome.

[Gallenger]

I actually developed a complicated system for ammo storage in BG1 that made me not have to mess around with it all that much. Ideally, though we won't have to do that in PE. I'm not overly concerned with realism in this case - just have an ammo box in the UI which weapons draw out of (or just float them in the main inventory a la fallout 1-2).

Edited October 24, 2012 by Gallenger

[Christliar]

It's just a hassle to be honest, I prefer a no ammo approach. I have a different idea in mind for the characters who specialize in archery: Give Archery feats that transform the default ammo ala Arcane Archer's Enhance Arrow. That way we can have elemental arrows without the need to constantly buy more at every store. It can be one feat only with a toggleable Ice, Fire, Earth etc. enhancements. If you prefer status effects like daze or stun they can make a different feat for that.

[HansKrSG]

Give me ammo that I have to replenish now and again. Having 60 or 120 arrows at the ready in your quiver (as in BG and BG2 respectively) shouldn't make it too much of a hassle to replenish the stock. You will probably need to go to a shop every now and again anyway, and then you can buy new ammo at the same time.

[ReyVagabond]

Personaly, i want an ammo system, and a game that makes you want to only use ranged weapons at the start of the fight and switch to melee when you have some one in your face.

 

I want arrows to be craftable on rest/camp and to be made from diferent material, and i dont want enchanted arrors because it creates a lot of work.

Adding other properties to arrows like flame arrows, do we make them able to burn, how do i gather such arrows? do i craft them? do they consume on inpact or can the taken from the corpses.

if i can craft enchated or special arrows, how costly will it be to craft something consumable?

 

in the end i think it to much work, adding skills to add properties to the next arrow shot or the next few shots i feel its a good enough.

[Nerei]

Personally I would prefer having to do some sort of ammunition management, as long as it does not become too much irritating busywork.

Having larger stacks can help a lot on the management issues, though naturally it also needs to not be a non-issue in which case it might as well be cut. If there are going to be infinite ammunition I hope it will only be the basic type and we can still find a limited amount of better ammunition.

That said I am more concerned with balancing "special" ammunition with melee weapons as it really felt underpowered in the IE games. Sure it was nice to find a stack of fire arrows and sure I would use them if I got them for free, but it was not something I would ever consider buying. Only exception being if they where near mandatory like say for troll slaying in a group with limited acid and fire assets.

Ultimately it felt like the gold was better spent on just buying a magical sword. Even if the base damage was slightly less it was not a way too expensive finite resource.

 

Like Christliar I like the arcane archer approach to things and it is something that could make the ranger really strong as a ranged character. I found it quite disappointing that it was moderately crappy in the IE games as a ranged combatant. Heck in Neverwinter nights I'd not touch a ranger for an optimal ranged built and even in the Icewind Dale games I would probably go with a fighter.

[rjshae]

I'd be okay with managing the stock ammo at the party level, with unique ammo being managed at the individual character level. I.e. have a pool of shared, low level ammo but allow individual overrides for high end ammo.

[Blablachar]

What kind of question is that? Ammo should not only take a place in a bag, but it should have a weight as well (real arrows can be heavy as hell).

 

When it comes to the guns- again, not only bullets which we have to buy, but also black powder which we have to manage as well.

[Larkaloke]

I like having to keep track of arrows and bolts (and bullets as well, in this case). Having to come up with a different strategy if the party runs out of arrows partway through a dungeon or battle is to me more interesting than having infinite arrows, and at low levels with not much gold, you have to decide whether to stock up on arrows or acquire other useful things. Enchantable ones also offer different strategic advantages and disadvantages, so I like having those around.

 

Also, I do think they should take up room and weight in the inventory. They all have mass (sometimes quite a bit of it).

[Tamerlane]

I like having to keep track of arrows and bolts (and bullets as well, in this case). Having to come up with a different strategy if the party runs out of arrows partway through a dungeon or battle is to me more interesting than having infinite arrows, and at low levels with not much gold, you have to decide whether to stock up on arrows or acquire other useful things. Enchantable ones also offer different strategic advantages and disadvantages, so I like having those around.

 

Also, I do think they should take up room and weight in the inventory. They all have mass (sometimes quite a bit of it).

When was the last time you ran out of (mundane) arrows in the middle of a dungeon or a battle?

 

Because for me, the answer to that question is "never".

[Taletotell]

I like the ammo need. I would like ammo to be retrievable from enemy corpses a percent of the time. Even magic stuff. I would like a feat to make ammo (5 arrows a day) and slings should have unlimited (rocks are plentiful) but weak ammo. Throwing knives have to be retrievable. That made me crazy on BG. It made them almost useless.

I think these changes would keep the balance, help archers keep equipped and not become crappy fighters when you are deep in a monster hole.

[Xinxspuz]

I definitely liked the realism of having ammo in the BG series of games, although it made me shy away from using throwing knives and darts most of the time. It was just too much of a hassle to refill quiver slots in the middle of a fight.

Finding the Infinite Ammo Quivers in ToB eliminated some headaches (ever run out of primary arrows and have Imoen switch to Arrows of Explosion in the middle of a fight?), but also made the game just a tad less enjoyable. Archers became mobile turrets that required little or no management.

Maybe have a tiered series of quivers? Instead of just "20 arrows" and then "Never runs out of ammo", you could find/upgrade your quiver as the game progresses - at middle levels, maybe it holds 40 arrows, or 60, but still runs out eventually? That would somewhat alleviate the problem of filling up inventory space with ammo, while still making you pay attention to how many arrows you have. Thoughts?

[Jarmo]

Actually I'd be fine with ammo having (some) weight, if you could stack unlimited amount into one slot.

So I'd have 40 normal arrows taking a slot, 110 +1 arrows taking another and 17 acid arrows taking yet another.

 

Just do away with the BG system where you have only room left for either a ruby necklace or a full plate armor. (but not 2 necklaces, because of no)

I really hate the situation where I could still carry extra 500lbs (giant strength) but can't fit 6 lousy paralytic bolts anywhere.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Jarmo

[ComMcNeil]

When was the last time you ran out of (mundane) arrows in the middle of a dungeon or a battle?

 

Because for me, the answer to that question is "never".

 

for me, the fear of running out of arrows really limited the use of ranged weapons for me in BG2. My Imoen had a short bow, yes, but either did cast, or not really use it at all.

 

I would argue that it may be better to just have "magical quivers" that produce amunition, but have amunition with enchants or sth., just be it like an additional item upgrade for ranged guys.

[Cultist]

Half-Life 2 syndrome for me. Ended up with full ammo and dragged saw with me as long as possible. And Baldur's Gate 2 is no different - get all arrows you can but never waste them, try to conserve every arrow you can.

I'm for unlimited ammo. That is kind of excessive micromanagement IMO and arrows as far as I remember NEVER had reasonable prices in the shops.

[Aoyagi]

Oh, I forgot to include the option Two Worlds uses - quivers, which have unlimited ammo but vary with damage and/or magic attributes.

[Carmelle]

Personally, I absolutely despise ammo management. It becomes far too much work, especially with parties of several characters. I do like the quiver approach mentioned by Aoyagi though.

 

For a happy medium, perhaps quivers that magically regenerated ammo over time (outside fights) or something. So you'd have some ammo for each fight, but would have to be careful with how you managed the ammo within a fight itself. Then the ammo management is restricted to strategic use within combat instead of managing an inventory with no real addition to enjoyment, only realism (eg. "oh crap I forgot to buy arrows at the shop DAMMIT" or "didn't buy enough arrows, UGHH" and your ranged character becoming useless.)

[Nomine Vacans]

Unlimited ammo is kinda lame and softcore'ish in my opinion. If you want to use advantages what ranged weapon gives you then you have to pay a price in form of ammo managment.

[Infinitron]

We already had a poll about this: http://forums.obsidi...s-limited-ammo/

Edited October 25, 2012 by Infinitron

[Aoyagi]

We already had a poll about this: http://forums.obsidi...s-limited-ammo/

Daym, I searched for it but apparently, not very thoroughly... :/

[DangerousFat]

I would prefer to have a single ammo item that represents the ammo, but doesn't expend. These could be more rare than ammo usually is or more expensive in shops since a single one confers infinite ammo. The benefit would be if you want flaming arrows, you just need the flaming ammunition item or to enchant a regular ammunition item into flaming or whatever you want. I would even go so far as to make it a generic ammunition item that would be bolts if the character uses a crossbow or arrows if it's a regular bow, bullets if it's a sling, or ball ammo if it's a firearm. Of course, the ammo item could be specific to the weapon type, but it would definitely simplify the gameplay, the inventory, and lower the art requirements by making generic ammunition items.

 

I definitely don't want to have to deal with like 50 stacks 10 different kinds of ammo. I find it annoying and tend to just sell off most of it anyway.

[Zombra]

I like ammo management.

 

I don't like multiple kinds of ammo. I only have a few +2 arrows, should I equip them in case the next fight is hard? Should I use my +1 arrows - I have more of them? Or should I use cheap default arrows? What about special use ammo like fire bolts? Poison bolts? Suddenly different kinds of ammo are taking up 6 of my inventory slots and I never know which ones to use.

 

So I am for one type of ammo per weapon type (arrows, bullets, bolts, whatever), with enchantments and so forth going on the weapons themselves.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Zombra