Badmojo Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 im starting to think that half of you folks have never seen a woman in real life man that is such a manly figure isn't it i can't tell it's a woman at all Sorry, those squigles do not help. It can still be a guy in drag, the only thing that even hints at a woman is the makeup, remove that and there is no difference. There isn't much boobs there to highlight, its in a V shape for the upper body (post boob area) is way to subtle and barely noticeable unless your paying attention. Now, when they are turned to sprites you will not see them AT ALL and all of them will most likely look like the same as a male or female unless all the guys have beards which I hope they are NOT going to do for every guy.
Agremont Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 im starting to think that half of you folks have never seen a woman in real life man that is such a manly figure isn't it i can't tell it's a woman at all Sorry, those squigles do not help. It can still be a guy in drag, the only thing that even hints at a woman is the makeup, remove that and there is no difference. There isn't much boobs there to highlight, its in a V shape for the upper body (post boob area) is way to subtle and barely noticeable unless your paying attention. Now, when they are turned to sprites you will not see them AT ALL and all of them will most likely look like the same as a male or female unless all the guys have beards which I hope they are NOT going to do for every guy. A guy in drag could wear a boobplate too you know. 1
nikolokolus Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Oh no you don't! How dare you try to drag the awesomeness that is beards into this abomination of a thread.
Arontala Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 I haven't read all of this gigantic thread because it usually ends up the same. Hopefully obsidian puts in a quest in the game (in one of the TWO big cities, yay for that stretch goal ) mirroring discussions like this. The white moral guild who want to banish every piece of naked skin all to champion feminism (which they harm just as bad as the other side) vs the skank guild who only want to wear skimpy outfits. Which side will you choose to help? Will you boldly step up and fund all the armorers in the city to make full covering and threaten seamstress's who make gowns which show skin? OR Will you equally boldly find and finance mages to only enchant leather thongs & bikini's and sabotage iron to known full coverer armorers? Oh the moral dilemma in-game would be unbearable! Also it would be hilarious if the outcome of this quest actually made it hard to find full covering or just the opposite 3
Furiku Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Did you know that oversexualization is not the same thing as any portrayal of sex and sexuality? Did you know that you can show a character's sex and sexuality in a way that does not reduce them to eye candy or a sex object? Opinion based, inherently subjective questions. Nobody will see or say the same thing, what someone finds "oversexualized" someone else will find not, just ask a monk or a nun. Same thing as to what you find to be "eye candy" or "sex objects"... Did you know that you can have a character who looks a certain way but challenges that stereotype; a character that is designed to challenge a stereotype? I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, you either want a stereotype non-stereotype character or you want a character that appears stereotype but isn't stereotype... or something, I never even got why people have such an obsession with generally avoiding "stereotypes" as if they are something inherently evil/bad. Did you know that you can enjoy pornography without trying to turn other things, like say, certain game genres, into porn? Nobody was asking for pornography, this image sparked a 11-page thread arguing about "boob plate": http://forums.obsidi...ew-concept-art/ If you deem this pornography, there is something wrong with you, either way you should look up a definition of pornography. Did you know that sex depicted in books/games/films does not always have the same intentions behind it as porn does? Your point? Did you know that some things, such as fetish outfits, might fit well in a hentai game, a porno, or an erotic artwork; but that doesn't mean those fetish outfits fit anywhere and everywhere? Again, your point? Who asked for "fetish outfits", who even brought them up? I'd be happy if you people stopped opening a thread every day about how feministic ideals are important and the game should totally be modeled after them and let Obsidian do their work without influencing them in any way, like with the "boob plate" thing. I haven't seen a single person asking for porn or fetish outfits, I've seen dozens of people decrying every single bit of sexualization and opening threads like this out of righteous indignation. Personally I'd like it if they take the "Game of Thrones" approach with the world, but I'd be content with whatever they come up on their own without the intereference of the PC-police secondguessing them at every step of the way. It all reminds me so much of this, just in a larger scale and with the consent of a lot of gaming publications "fighting for womens rights", all the while you're trying to shove everyone who doesn't want a PC/feminist agenda in their games into apparently "wanting to watch porn": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKzF173GqTU And frankly, I want them as far away as possible from game design, just as much as I want Jack Thompson (or people like him/similar extremists) as far away as possible. If you think about these things, you might understand why my statements are not contradictions at all. Uh...okay... Also, none of this addresses my previous points. Edited October 23, 2012 by Furiku 1
henofthewoods Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Ok wait, one minute the white knights have been bitching that RPG's are only created for men, that the games are all sexist, no games are created for women! Now you are saying they have traditionally been gender neutral? Which is it? it might blow your mind to find this out but i don't represent everyone who has posted against your ideas shocking i know Besides, I was pointing to creating games TARGETED to the dominate demographic which will be men. There is a huge female audience for these games. just because your brain defaults people into being male doesn't mean everyone is. In fact, every core female gamer I know is a fan of rpgs and you'd be pretty hard pressed to find one that isn't. I also like how you constantly mention whiteknights and stuff as if this, when it gets down to it, actually has to do with feminism. However, trying to draw in more player from different groups is always bad, it turns dull and stupid. Look at bio(ea)ware games to see what happens when you try to please everybody and not offend anybody. Now compare that too the witcher 2 which is decidely made for a particular demographic. yeah bioware has totally caved into the evil feminist's anti-sex schemes and that half the world's population apparently aren't allowed to share interests or anything like that. i'm not saying guys aren't allowed to have things targeted towards guys, it's just there has been absolutely no indication that women aren't in the demographic they're trying to reach, which I was under the impression was simply fans of old school rpgs, which have a pretty large audience. Sorry, s(he) is ugly. When they are put in small sprite form in the game you wont be able to tell if its a guy or a girl. There is NOTHING wrong with making characters sexy/attractive. I am sorry if this offends some prudes and white knights, but honestly even if obsidian caves to this, you will complain about something else about females, and then something else, and something else until the game turns into a PC wet dream game. I have no interest playing that game thank you very much. oh my gosh im sorry you won't be able to tell if one character is female in sprite form im not sure how your genitals will cope pro-tip: if the only thing keeping you from thinking a character is attractive is not prominently displaying boobs, then the character is just unattractive to you. most male characters in video games aren't attractive to women either and i don't really see any female gamers exclaiming that all male characters should be hot bishonen men. I have no idea why any fan of a male-prominent medium would be so ready to repel women in such a manner when others would be pretty excited to get them. go watch some porn holy cow Edited October 23, 2012 by henofthewoods 3
MantisDreaming Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 There is lots of pigeon-holing decent folks into the "white knight" genre, but I think those doing all this name calling are misunderstood in more ways than one. Namely, since when did "white knights" do anything other than jam swords into 'heretic' faces and spread disease? Those fruitlessly championing the objectification of digital womankind are the true "white knights" here.
Rink Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Well if this topic only exists, because some people think they have to protect women from something, then pick 30 women and let them choose their RPG-outfit. Since most women quite like to look feminine and not like a man, maybe the result will be something more in the direction of "female formed"-platemail maybe it will be not, but if that is the problem, I am sure it will give results. Maybe there is some sort of compromise between both sides (like... in almost every other game) and maybe the green shirt girl can define that In RPGs girls and guys both do tend to wear armor that is not only practical but also estetic. Same counts for weapons, as many of the weapons featured in RPGs would not be practical against some armortypes or not be used in a setting were everyone wears some armor anyway (and fighting is not realistic anyway, because you shouldn't lose HP with every hit but only hit very rarely and then usually be quite wounded or dead already) or are misinterpreted like "morning star" being a ball on a chain. I don't mind as long as it looks good and is implemented nicely. And I like variety in weapons and also armor even if that means there may not be an alternative on every level for the armor I am wearing. But in the end the characters will be proabably less than 1 inch tall on screen. So just make it so I can still see if that is a woman at all there. Do a better job than with Imoen please :D http://img545.images...15/69693003.png Edited October 23, 2012 by Rink
henofthewoods Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Those fruitlessly championing the objectification of digital womankind are the true "white knights" here. it's kind of depressing when any man who thinks something is over the top and infantile is viewed as trying to get with the ladies. do you guys seriously have that low impression of yourselves? 6
Arontala Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Well if this topic only exists, because some people think they have to protect women from something, then pick 30 women and let them choose their RPG-outfit. Since most women quite like to look feminine and not like a man, maybe the result will be something more in the direction of "female formed"-platemail maybe it will be not, but if that is the problem, I am sure it will give results. Maybe there is some sort of compromise between both sides (like... in almost every other game) and maybe the green shirt girl can define that In RPGs girls and guys both do tend to wear armor that is not only practical but also estetic. Same counts for weapons, as many of the weapons featured in RPGs would not be practical against some armortypes or not be used in a setting were everyone wears some armor anyway (and fighting is not realistic anyway, because you shouldn't lose HP with every hit but only hit very rarely and then usually be quite wounded or dead already) or are misinterpreted like "morning star" being a ball on a chain. I don't mind as long as it looks good and is implemented nicely. And I like variety in weapons and also armor even if that means there may not be an alternative on every level for the armor I am wearing. But in the end the characters will be proabably less than 1 inch tall on screen. So just make it so I can still see if that is a woman at all there. Do a better job than with Imoen please :D http://img545.images...15/69693003.png Well those were older games so the technology was limited but yeah I can't tell which charachter is imoen and I played BG 1 back in the days (I used to use her as an archer mostly, wasn't a big fan of multi class imoen later on. I'm not a multi class fan at all tbh).
Dream Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 And I think you'll find that plenty of them either don't give a **** about boob plates or would prefer to play good looking characters. Very possible. Although I don't see what good looks has got to do with the discussion. And anyway, I'm just voicing my very own personal opinion. Not anyone elses. Kinda hard to tell a character is good looking if they look exactly the same as a dude in full plate. Yes if the face is covered it would be kind of hard to see if the character is good looking. But that doesn't change if you add boobs to the armor. Sure the sex becomes more apparent, but she could still look like an old crone in the face. If the face isn't covered, then the sex and possible attractivness of the character would still be apparent, even if the armor isn't obviously female. Also as pointed out by others, there are way to make armor look feminine without boobplates. The female form is much more than breasts. Most chicks prefer more feminine looking armor (boob plates and all) in video games since they're, you know, video games and not real life. The people who hate on boob plates are part of the (extreme) minority for both genders. 1
Agremont Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Most chicks prefer more feminine looking armor (boob plates and all) in video games since they're, you know, video games and not real life. The people who hate on boob plates are part of the (extreme) minority for both genders. If you say so. I doubt it's "extreme" minority but whatever. And again, feminine is more than just boobs. The armor is plenty female in the concept of PE. Edited October 23, 2012 by Agremont 2
Lord of Lost Socks Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 It's not the mens fault women are oversexualized. It's the womens fault for being so god damn sexy. That's my opinion. 1 My thoughts on how character powers and urgency could be implemented: http://forums.obsidi...nse-of-urgency/
Larkaloke Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 I certainly don't prefer "feminine-looking" armour, and of the small number of people I know who like to see that sort of armour, not one of them is female. I find it looks ridiculous, and also far more silly than attractive. I've got no problem at all with non-armour outfits being dresses or skimpy or what-have-you (although I'd still prefer if not all of them were), but I like armour and weapons to be realistic. I also have no problem with there being a few suits of such bizarre armour lying around, or a few NPCs wearing it (although I reserve the right to laugh at them). The great majority of armour, however, should in my opinion be realistic; and the great majority of people wearing it would probably choose functional armour over "look guys I'm female so I'm wearing this weird armour to make sure everyone knows that always, just don't stab me in the more ill-protected areas okay!". I realise you can handwave the lesser protection value of the armour with magic, but I can never help but think it would be better still if the base armour was functional in that case... Now, I don't really see this as being much of a potential problem in this game. The models won't be at large enough size to tell all that clearly. I'd certainly rather that armour looks realistic and reasonable in the inventory screen, but it seems likely enough that it will be all right that I'm not really worried about it. The recent concept art all looks fine. I must admit I also fail to see why it would be a problem if you can't tell immediately from looking at the model (in armour) whether a character is male or female. You have a portrait to go by (at least if they're in the party), you have s name and likely some context if you're speaking with them, and in a combat situation I just don't see how it's that important. If you can't tell with non-armoured characters, yeah, maybe, but in armour? I don't get it. im starting to think that half of you folks have never seen a woman in real life man that is such a manly figure isn't it i can't tell it's a woman at all I'm thinking that some of you have never seen actual platemail or don't quite understand its function or how it's worn. Its function being to deflect blows (which the shape one normally finds it in works quite well for), and a person wears a fair amount of padding underneath the armour, to cushion impact from blows that do connect. The armour does not exactly fit the form of the person wearing it, whether they are male or female. 1
Andwit25 Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) There is NOTHING wrong with making characters sexy/attractive. I am sorry if this offends some prudes and white knights, but honestly even if obsidian caves to this, you will complain about something else about females, and then something else, and something else until the game turns into a PC wet dream game. I have no interest playing that game thank you very much. I completly agree that there is nothing wrong with sexy armor. However if platemail on a female looks like the illegimate offspring of a string bikini and a frying pan, it is only fair that the males of the setting should charge into battle wearing nothing but a full metal speedo. Edited October 23, 2012 by Andwit25 2
NoxNoctum Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) . Edited October 23, 2012 by NoxNoctum
Forlorn Hope Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 OE will end up doing three female gods: One clad in full plate mail (not boobplate!) wearing a burqa, one wearing nothing but a pair of double d's and make up and the third will be something in between the other two. Of course each deity will have their loyal worshippers and missionaries spread across the world. I like this post, and I like you. lol Haha, thank you for your kind words. The forums are going crazy! Well it's good people are passionate about this game... I guess. "Maybe your grandiose vocabulary is a pathetic compensation for an insufficiency in the nether regions of your anatomy."
Theobeau Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 How cow, 18 pages on this topic! Putting aside boob plates, chainmail bikinis and realism in fantasy cRPGs is 18 pages some sort of record for this PE meme? - Project Eternity, Wasteland 2 and Torment: Tides of Numenera; quality cRPGs are back !
UncleBourbon Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 How cow, 18 pages on this topic! Putting aside boob plates, chainmail bikinis and realism in fantasy cRPGs is 18 pages some sort of record for this PE meme? I think the last thread reached 26 pages, and there were even earlier ones.
Elerond Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 And I think you'll find that plenty of them either don't give a **** about boob plates or would prefer to play good looking characters. I think you meant to say ridiculous looking character as if they in your opinion prefer first draft of the Candegund with it's comical bumb for double D breasts instead of second draft where Cadegund is really has very good, healthy and feminine looking and without need for silicon implanted breasts from plastic surgeon. 2
FlintlockJazz Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 Let me sum up my feelings on the matter: I find oversexualisation insulting to ME. It implies that people buy games for the titties and only want to play goodlooking perfect people or steroid he-men, and that I'm not only stupid to go along with it but that I would also have no interest in an authentic experience (this includes how they have been making everything more anime too and over the top). I've even known women who have been pro sexualisation, saying "Well I want to look good too!" I usually respond with "Well if we ever fight I'll know to just stab you in the tit then." They never seem to answer my calls after that for some strange reason... 1 "That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail "Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams
NOK222 Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) man that is such a manly figure isn't it i can't tell it's a woman at all Oh some one is suddenly blind for the sake of their argument. I'm thinking that some of you have never seen actual platemail or don't quite understand its function or how it's worn. Its function being to deflect blows (which the shape one normally finds it in works quite well for), and a person wears a fair amount of padding underneath the armour, to cushion impact from blows that do connect. The armour does not exactly fit the form of the person wearing it, whether they are male or female. Thank you. I found some google pics. a bit form fitting, but cool and feminine without any silliness Saint Joan of Arc, mind you she isn't meant to be feminine. Cadegund seems to draw some inspiration here. This pic I like, there is some "boob" armor but it's subdued. This however is leather armor, fitting for a barbaric woman. Who cares who looks feminine and who doesn't? "LOL I WANT TO SEE CADEGUND's BOOBS" is what half of you are saying. I don't think she's supposed to be feminine in the first place, it's coming across as "I've never had a girlfriend in real life" Let me reitoriate how I and other people arguing against boob armor never really made a case against leather armor or mage robes, I don't know why half of you are so hostile. Edited October 23, 2012 by NKKKK 2 Ka-ka-ka-ka-Cocaine!
ImRhoven Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 There is NOTHING wrong with making characters sexy/attractive. I am sorry if this offends some prudes and white knights, but honestly even if obsidian caves to this, you will complain about something else about females, and then something else, and something else until the game turns into a PC wet dream game. I have no interest playing that game thank you very much. Your insecurities are showing. I'm actually offended that the only reasons you can come up with for other men to disagree with you and dislike ridiculous armors is because they are either prudes or disingenuous, and just trying to make good with the ladies. Not everyone is so dominated by their lizard brain as you seem to be. It's really sad that some people on here keep on insisting that consistency = PC = a bad thing. 2
Slaunyeh Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 What, europe, what? Where? That's not the europe I live in! Please tell me that's not true. Maybe he meant the Vatican (and even there, I'm not so sure).
Auxilius Posted October 23, 2012 Posted October 23, 2012 I got an idea! Make every character in PE a man! With beards. Awesome beards. Like the ZZ Top. See? Problem solved, let's go home guys. 3
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