About humans..

[morrow1nd]

I hope Obsidian gives humans nice bonuses like +1 spell casting level or +1 attack bonus with +1 all saves. Humans mostly populate and dominate the fantasy worlds but other races always have the cool abilities...

 

What are your thoughts on this subject?

[Farbautisonn]

Well, it would make sense to have the humans have some kind of bonus. The other races can live longer, are more physically / mentally adept, etc. There would have to be a reason why humans were not either "bred out" or purged from existance or living in squalor as serfs to other races.

 

Either that or give the "other races" significant drawbacks that counter the bonuses.

[Micamo]

I prefer that settings be either:

 

A. All humans

 

or

 

B. No humans

 

 

Humans mixed in with other species generally doesn't work out as well. Humans always end up as generic and faceless with nothing to define them except "they're the generic ones with nothing special about them."

[septembervirgin]

Initially, the only bonus humans got was unlimited progression in classes that permit unlimited progression as well as the wide range of attribute spread (3-18) that signifies variety. Of course, not everyone rolled three six sided dice once the Dungeon Master's Guide was released...

[AGX-17]

Humans are Humans. Humans are Us. We built the mighty cities of the world. We built the computers and networks that allow us to communicate over great distances. We put men on the moon and returned them safely to the Earth.

 

Has the Elf harnessed the power of the sun in artificial stars? No!

 

Has the Dwarf constructed a chemical structure, atom by atom, with absolute precision? No!

 

It is us, Humans, who seek to know ourselves, and to know the universe. It is us, Humans who have found the answers to our questions, and discovered the answers to be questions themselves.

 

To all those who would denigrate the humble Human, the mighty Human, look at your world, see what your people have wrought, see what they imagine to be their future, and ask yourself why Humanity should be the least of all races in your imagination.

Edited October 20, 2012 by AGX-17

[morrow1nd]

Humans are Humans. Humans are Us. We built the mighty cities of the world. We built the computers and networks that allow us to communicate over great distances. We put men on the moon and returned them safely to the Earth.

 

Has the Elf harnessed the power of the sun in artificial stars? No!

 

Has the Dwarf constructed a chemical structure, atom by atom, with absolute precision? No!

 

It is us, Humans, who seek to know ourselves, and to know the universe. It is us, Humans who have found the answers to our questions, and discovered the answers to be questions themselves.

 

To all those who would denigrate the humble Human, the mighty Human, look at your world, see what your people have wrought, see what they imagine to be their future, and ask yourself why Humanity should be the least of all races in your imagination.

 

When i was reading your post i thought i was listening a raging heavy metal music! xD

[morrow1nd]

I prefer that settings be either:

 

A. All humans

 

or

 

B. No humans

 

 

Humans mixed in with other species generally doesn't work out as well. Humans always end up as generic and faceless with nothing to define them except "they're the generic ones with nothing special about them."

 

Not this time! (: i guess..

 

sorry double post..

Edited October 20, 2012 by morrow1nd

[LadyCrimson]

Well, it would make sense to have the humans have some kind of bonus. The other races can live longer, are more physically / mentally adept, etc. There would have to be a reason why humans were not either "bred out" or purged from existance or living in squalor as serfs to other races.

 

Either that or give the "other races" significant drawbacks that counter the bonuses.

My impression has been that's how a lot of game handle the race bonuses. Humans aren't generally given anything "special" because they're the baseline, so to speak, then other races have bonuses but also weaknesses to counter it.

 

At any rate, that's the method I'm used to and I kinda like it. If Obsidian comes up with something new and interesting to try I'll be willing to check it out, however.

[Farbautisonn]

 

My impression has been that's how a lot of game handle the race bonuses. Humans aren't generally given anything "special" because they're the baseline, so to speak, then other races have bonuses but also weaknesses to counter it.

 

At any rate, that's the method I'm used to and I kinda like it. If Obsidian comes up with something new and interesting to try I'll be willing to check it out, however.

 

Problem is that giving the bonuses can make a significant impact. A good DM can allways counter them, but CRPGs arent Pen and Paper games. So there is a tendency to "stathunt" and to choose very specific races for very specific roles. Dwarven warriors, Elven wizards, drow rogues etc. Given their lifespan they can significantly "outperform" a human. An elven wizard that lives a thousand years plus can become significantly more powerfull than a human ditto that only lives for a century. Its one of the things I never fully undestood the logic of. Elven wizards should be legues beyond anything a human could ever aspire for. And yet... they arent. The only real benefit to being human in most of the traditional pen and paper games I have played is that we can outbreed the other races. We survive because we are rats.

[Jarmo]

Nah, humans are the baseline. The norm.

You can't give bonuses to the baseline. Or insanity.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Humans should have no special abilities besides a "quick learner" or "skilled" ability that gives them an extra feat and/or skill points at character creation. Also, they should have no negatives, which other races can have.

[AGX-17]

Nah, humans are the baseline. The norm.

You can't give bonuses to the baseline. Or insanity.

 

Humans are the baseline, the norm, in reality. They need not be in a fantasy world. I know their traditional role is as jack-of-all-trades/flexible, but PE could shake things up in those sorts of areas. I'd like to see humans as less magically inclined and more technological/inquisitive. Dwarves can keep their precious metals and fine craftsmanship, but curiosity and ingenuity in machinery and sciences seem like a perfect fit for humanity. Humans would have good reason to invent muskets and cannon if they were unskilled in magicks, for example.

Edited October 21, 2012 by AGX-17

[Karkarov]

Well are we even sure any race gets actual racial bonuses yet? If races are getting them then yes they should give humans some type of bonus too.

[Takamori]

 

Just saying

[Frenetic Pony]

In D&D you have every other race, and then you have humans which in pure statistics and ability wise pretty much always end up making every other race look at least a bit worse.

 

Try to balance them and try to make sure they aren't the standard against which every other race is judged. I don't think there's ever been a popular story or setting, fantasy or otherwise, in which humans aren't the benchmark against which every other race is to ultimately prove inferior. Even the stories where humans are downtrodden have them rising up and winning and being great. Just having them be, another race, would be refreshing in and of itself.

[Tychoxi]

if there are any kind of race bonuses, then yes, every single race should have different bonuses (or, uh, whatever you call the reverse of a bonus? that too).

[AGX-17]

 

Just saying

 

Not even a fan of 40k, but.... FOR THE EMPEROR!!!!

 

 

if there are any kind of race bonuses, then yes, every single race should have different bonuses (or, uh, whatever you call the reverse of a bonus? that too).

 

It's called a penalty.

Edited October 21, 2012 by AGX-17

[TheDogProfessor]

I would like to see "humans" that have specific characteristics; humans that have evolved differently to humans in our world. They might have a spell-resistance or some specific talents or something.

[morrow1nd]

I would like to see "humans" that have specific characteristics; humans that have evolved differently to humans in our world. They might have a spell-resistance or some specific talents or something.

 

hmm may be something like soul resistance ?

 

Nah, humans are the baseline. The norm.

You can't give bonuses to the baseline. Or insanity.

 

Why not ? Different worlds different rules. Things can be different in PE and they should be! (:

Edited October 21, 2012 by morrow1nd

[curryinahurry]

Racial aspects are but one factor that should be considered in character creation. This has been touched on in other threads, but considering that the devs have already mentioned (using the example of Boreal Dwarves) that cultural and regional differences also play a factor in how races develop and interact, we should see that also reflected in character creation. Characters could potentially get bonuses (and minuses) to various skills and abilities based on choices made regarding the race, region, culture, class and even trade during the creation process. This way a, as an example, dwarven character from a coastal urban area could be markedly different from one coming from a rural, mountainous one.

[Umberlin]

That bonus feat, and four extra skillpoints (plus an additional one skill point every level beyond creation), for being a Human at creation, hardly felt baseline to me.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Umberlin

[OldRPG'sAreGood]

I always thought human dominance to come from the ability to adapt into almost every situation and enviroment, so no for bonuses from me. Dwarves and elves and the rest seem more like specialists in their respective enviroments and fields, but who lack the ability to fit into near everywhere. So I hope these races have both bonuses and penalties.

[morrow1nd]

That bonus feat, and four extra skillpoints (plus an additional one skill point every level beyond creation), for being a Human at creation, hardly felt baseline to me.

 

"four extra skill points !" might be useful when playing with a DM.. (:

[Fimbul]

man is the measure of all things

...meaning we are point zero on the scale to measure advantages and disadvantages in this particular context.

Would feel kind of forced if humans had any advantages but quick learning or something like that.

 

game: humans have +1 strength.

random human: Well I don't feel very strong...

game: humans have +1 dexterity.

random human: Actually I'm kind of clumsy...

game: humans have +1 intelligence.

random human: Deeerrrp

game: humans learn rather fast.

random human: Uhm well we better DO, since we don't live as long as other races.

[Sensuki]

I actually didn't mind 4E's solution of a +2 to any attribute you like.

 

Humans as a more sandbox race is an interesting idea, get less overall bonuses than other races but get to put them anywhere you like etc