villain of the story Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Hey, if people throw enough money at me, I promise to make a very professional romance/sex/BDSM mod that will add multi-dimensional polygamous polyamorous depth to all the major characters in the game, companion or no companion. I already have two very talented guys working for me, one an excellent model and texture artist, the other a brilliant animator. We will bring your wildest fantasies to life in Project Eternity. Try to play nice in the sandbox. Can we throw sand into the eyes of the fans of Biowarian Romance? Edited October 19, 2012 by villain of the story 2
CrazyPea Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Relationships are at the heart of the human psyche and all fiction, including narrative driven rpgs, deal with the subject on one level or another - Even (and Especially) Planescape: Torment. This doesn't take resources/writing way from the rest of the game, because, from the narrative point of view, it IS the game. Now, not every relationship needs to be romantic, but romances are a type of relationship. And since a huge chunk of our psyche is devoted to attracting a suitable mate, it can be a powerful emotive draw; If it's handled well, a romance can keep the reader, viewer or (dare I say it) gamer on the edge of their seats. If this wasn't the case, Romeo and Juliet would had vanished into obscurity long ago. From a dramatic point of view, romances are a gold mine for creating obstacles, challenges and rationales for characters - Everything that a good (or even great) role-playing game would seek to create. Or are the vocal people on this board simply interested in the grinding of leveling and combat? In which case, why play a narrative driven rpg in the first place? As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. 4
Jasede Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Try to play nice in the sandbox. Can we throw sand into the eyes of the fans of Biowarian Romance? I second that. Edited October 19, 2012 by Jasede
Jasede Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) edit: cannot into deleting posts Edited October 19, 2012 by Jasede
FlintlockJazz Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. "That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail "Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams
CrazyPea Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. It has been implied, several times in this thread. As for prejudice, I refer you to post #525: I'd rather leave all the kiddie ghosts and flaming homos for EA games though.
FlintlockJazz Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. It has been implied, several times in this thread. As for prejudice, I refer you to post #525: I'd rather leave all the kiddie ghosts and flaming homos for EA games though. It hasn't been implied from what I have seen and that post was satirical response to another joke post, it also included pedophillia, necrophillia and the perception of biowarian romance. Lets not have this escalate beyond what it is, that leads to flaming, trolling and me throttling someone on top of a pile of dead naked people regretting the night before. "That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail "Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams
HereticSaint Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. This would be assuming the companions were incapable of being bisexual. Personally, even though I am pretty much straight I would rather there be gay and lesbian romances than none at all, including ones that cater to my specific wants and needs. As long as they were well written, which again, should be a non issue. The argument then becomes, are they worth it in the sense of the playerbase appreciating it, which, again, I believe they would for the most part and if they didn't then they could ignore it.
CrazyPea Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. It has been implied, several times in this thread. As for prejudice, I refer you to post #525: I'd rather leave all the kiddie ghosts and flaming homos for EA games though. It hasn't been implied from what I have seen and that post was satirical response to another joke post, it also included pedophillia, necrophillia and the perception of biowarian romance. Lets not have this escalate beyond what it is, that leads to flaming, trolling and me throttling someone on top of a pile of dead naked people regretting the night before. I have to disagree with you there, and as for the quote, said satically or not, it is extremely offensive, ugly and encouraging of prejudice, even if it isn't meant to be.
FlintlockJazz Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. This would be assuming the companions were incapable of being bisexual. Personally, even though I am pretty much straight I would rather there be gay and lesbian romances than none at all, including ones that cater to my specific wants and needs. As long as they were well written, which again, should be a non issue. The argument then becomes, are they worth it in the sense of the playerbase appreciating it, which, again, I believe they would for the most part and if they didn't then they could ignore it. We've already discussed bi as well, its all been one long heated exchange over what people want. Bricks have been thrown and babies sacrificed to dark gods, assassinations in the dead of night and last minute castrations, its all been done, sorry you missed it. 1 "That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail "Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams
Amentep Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) One cannot argue that you must attempt to bed every female in your party in order to defeat the dragon in the next room. Is the dragon easily distracted by hot adventurers making out? If so, bedding every female in your party in view of the dragon could lead to a really easy mega-backstab by the party rogue (who'd have to be male to explain why you weren't making out with him for sake of dragon distraction). Edited October 19, 2012 by Amentep 2 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
qloher Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Obsidian is about to make a project from lost art of the CRPG-games, and people most concerning thing about the game is romance, sex and boobplates? Thing is, romance presence or absence is now up in the air with no 100% clear statement from developers announcing they've chosen to go one way or the other. Also people here have strong opinions on the topic. Hence we have this hot discussion. With other aspects of the game we either already have a valid information on if something is there or not and how it will be implemented if it is, either people do not have strong opinions, that is to say people can easily go whatever way. Hence those are no controversy material, hence no big discussions. I mean we all agree we don't want PE to be a hack and slash for example, we all know Obsidian guys are not going to turn this into a hack and slash, hence there is nothing to talk about on that matter.
Amentep Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Thing is, romance presence or absence is now up in the air with no 100% clear statement from developers announcing they've chosen to go one way or the other. I'm pretty sure the statements they've made (at least the ones I've read) have summed up to "Romances can be tricky to do right, but inclusion of any will be dependent on how the characters and story shape up". In other words they'd only include them if they make sense for the game and they think they can do them in a way that - to them - works. 1 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
CrazyPea Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. This would be assuming the companions were incapable of being bisexual. Personally, even though I am pretty much straight I would rather there be gay and lesbian romances than none at all, including ones that cater to my specific wants and needs. As long as they were well written, which again, should be a non issue. The argument then becomes, are they worth it in the sense of the playerbase appreciating it, which, again, I believe they would for the most part and if they didn't then they could ignore it. We've already discussed bi as well, its all been one long heated exchange over what people want. Bricks have been thrown and babies sacrificed to dark gods, assassinations in the dead of night and last minute castrations, its all been done, sorry you missed it. IT IS a highy emotive subject. And to be honest I'm hoping that Obsidian don't listen to anything posted in these threads. But, I'm afraid, that like many other games companies in the past, they will. And if the only people to speak out are those who are against such things, they will get a skewed idea of what people want. 1
Althernai Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Wow, this thread got ugly fast. Sometimes I'm grateful for the thread length limits -- hopefully a few more posts should be enough to get it locked.
HereticSaint Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. This would be assuming the companions were incapable of being bisexual. Personally, even though I am pretty much straight I would rather there be gay and lesbian romances than none at all, including ones that cater to my specific wants and needs. As long as they were well written, which again, should be a non issue. The argument then becomes, are they worth it in the sense of the playerbase appreciating it, which, again, I believe they would for the most part and if they didn't then they could ignore it. We've already discussed bi as well, its all been one long heated exchange over what people want. Bricks have been thrown and babies sacrificed to dark gods, assassinations in the dead of night and last minute castrations, its all been done, sorry you missed it. I've been around for at least a bit of that. I don't see how a companion who is open to advances of either sex make it so, 'half the companions are romancable'. At the end of the day, I think they will do what is best for the game according to them. But if there's even a 0.00001% chance that even a microscopic amount of their decision making would be garnered from all of the romance threads I want it to be known that there are people that enjoy and support such options. Honestly, if there weren't people posting so vehemently about their opposition to it then it probably wouldn't of even popped up in my head. Edited October 19, 2012 by HereticSaint 1
CrazyPea Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. This would be assuming the companions were incapable of being bisexual. Personally, even though I am pretty much straight I would rather there be gay and lesbian romances than none at all, including ones that cater to my specific wants and needs. As long as they were well written, which again, should be a non issue. The argument then becomes, are they worth it in the sense of the playerbase appreciating it, which, again, I believe they would for the most part and if they didn't then they could ignore it. We've already discussed bi as well, its all been one long heated exchange over what people want. Bricks have been thrown and babies sacrificed to dark gods, assassinations in the dead of night and last minute castrations, its all been done, sorry you missed it. I've been around for at least a bit of that. I don't see how a companion who is open to advances of either sex make it so, 'half the companions are romancable'. At the end of the day, I think they will do what is best for the game according to them. But if there's even a 0.00001% chance that even an microscopic amount of their decision making would be garnered from all of the romance threads I want it to be known that there are people that enjoy and support such options. Honestly, if there weren't people posting so vehemently about their opposition to it then it probably wouldn't of even popped up in my head. You have hit the nail on head - that's exactly how I feel.
qloher Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Thing is, romance presence or absence is now up in the air with no 100% clear statement from developers announcing they've chosen to go one way or the other. I'm pretty sure the statements they've made (at least the ones I've read) have summed up to "Romances can be tricky to do right, but inclusion of any will be dependent on how the characters and story shape up". In other words they'd only include them if they make sense for the game and they think they can do them in a way that - to them - works. And that is exactly what I've told. Officially romances are nor confirmed, nor denied for the time being.
jarpie Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Relationships are at the heart of the human psyche and all fiction, including narrative driven rpgs, deal with the subject on one level or another - Even (and Especially) Planescape: Torment. This doesn't take resources/writing way from the rest of the game, because, from the narrative point of view, it IS the game. Now, not every relationship needs to be romantic, but romances are a type of relationship. And since a huge chunk of our psyche is devoted to attracting a suitable mate, it can be a powerful emotive draw; If it's handled well, a romance can keep the reader, viewer or (dare I say it) gamer on the edge of their seats. If this wasn't the case, Romeo and Juliet would had vanished into obscurity long ago. From a dramatic point of view, romances are a gold mine for creating obstacles, challenges and rationales for characters - Everything that a good (or even great) role-playing game would seek to create. Or are the vocal people on this board simply interested in the grinding of leveling and combat? In which case, why play a narrative driven rpg in the first place? As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. Why should every game have romances? Does every film or book have romances? would film like The Treasure of Sierra Madre get any better if we would add romances into it? What about 2001: A Space Odyssey (both book and film), and what about The Thing by John Carpenter? Would it make games like Ultima 4-7 any better if companions of Avatar would be romanceable? Would it add anything to the story of Ultima 5 which is about oppression, moral absolutes and corruption of men (and women)? or Ultima 6 which is about racist prejudices and co-existance, and consequences of what you have done in the previous games? Does your whole life revolve around romantic relationships? if not, why should it in games? There are so many potential stories what are possible in Project Eternity without including romances. 3
FlintlockJazz Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. No one's even said that don't start flinging that around. The argument is that if there are romances in the game they WOULD have to cater to all which would lead to at least half the companions needing to be romanceable hence why they don't want it in at all. This would be assuming the companions were incapable of being bisexual. Personally, even though I am pretty much straight I would rather there be gay and lesbian romances than none at all, including ones that cater to my specific wants and needs. As long as they were well written, which again, should be a non issue. The argument then becomes, are they worth it in the sense of the playerbase appreciating it, which, again, I believe they would for the most part and if they didn't then they could ignore it. We've already discussed bi as well, its all been one long heated exchange over what people want. Bricks have been thrown and babies sacrificed to dark gods, assassinations in the dead of night and last minute castrations, its all been done, sorry you missed it. IT IS a highy emotive subject. And to be honest I'm hoping that Obsidian don't listen to anything posted in these threads. But, I'm afraid, that like many other games companies in the past, they will. And if the only people to speak out are those who are against such things, they will get a skewed idea of what people want. And if the only people who speak out are for it you get the same problem. I hope Obsidian are not using ANY of the threads on these forums to guage what people want. The main problem with this thread in particular is that the argument is going round and round, with others handing out knives to those in the back... 1 "That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail "Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams
Amentep Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Thing is, romance presence or absence is now up in the air with no 100% clear statement from developers announcing they've chosen to go one way or the other. I'm pretty sure the statements they've made (at least the ones I've read) have summed up to "Romances can be tricky to do right, but inclusion of any will be dependent on how the characters and story shape up". In other words they'd only include them if they make sense for the game and they think they can do them in a way that - to them - works. And that is exactly what I've told. Officially romances are nor confirmed, nor denied for the time being. Yes, I was concurring with you with my own elaboration. I am curious if anyone had heard otherwise (and frankly I agree with their approach; stuff shouldn't be put in the game just for the sake of putting it in - it has to work) 1 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
CrazyPea Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Relationships are at the heart of the human psyche and all fiction, including narrative driven rpgs, deal with the subject on one level or another - Even (and Especially) Planescape: Torment. This doesn't take resources/writing way from the rest of the game, because, from the narrative point of view, it IS the game. Now, not every relationship needs to be romantic, but romances are a type of relationship. And since a huge chunk of our psyche is devoted to attracting a suitable mate, it can be a powerful emotive draw; If it's handled well, a romance can keep the reader, viewer or (dare I say it) gamer on the edge of their seats. If this wasn't the case, Romeo and Juliet would had vanished into obscurity long ago. From a dramatic point of view, romances are a gold mine for creating obstacles, challenges and rationales for characters - Everything that a good (or even great) role-playing game would seek to create. Or are the vocal people on this board simply interested in the grinding of leveling and combat? In which case, why play a narrative driven rpg in the first place? As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. Why should every game have romances? Does every film or book have romances? would film like The Treasure of Sierra Madre get any better if we would add romances into it? What about 2001: A Space Odyssey (both book and film), and what about The Thing by John Carpenter? Would it make games like Ultima 4-7 any better if companions of Avatar would be romanceable? Would it add anything to the story of Ultima 5 which is about oppression, moral absolutes and corruption of men (and women)? or Ultima 6 which is about racist prejudices and co-existance, and consequences of what you have done in the previous games? Does your whole life revolve around romantic relationships? if not, why should it in games? There are so many potential stories what are possible in Project Eternity without including romances. Did you read the lines: Now, not every relationship needs to be romantic, but romances are a type of relationship. And since a huge chunk of our psyche is devoted to attracting a suitable mate, it can be a powerful emotive draw; If it's handled well, a romance can keep the reader, viewer or (dare I say it) gamer on the edge of their seats. ... From a dramatic point of view, romances are a gold mine for creating obstacles, challenges and rationales for characters - Everything that a good (or even great) role-playing game would seek to create. I'm not saying every relationshi[ in the game has to be romantic. What I am saying is that relationships drive the narrative and that romantic relationships have can drive the the narrative too. You mentioned 3 movies in your post - for those three, I gave you thousands that do include romantic relationships and are better for it - everything from Casablanca, the 39 steps (hitch**** original), to The Empire strikes back (... well,,, apart from the whole brother/sister kiss - ewww), The dark Knight (the dilema of bats chosing between his love and Harvey dent). I could list many more... Edited October 19, 2012 by CrazyPea
FlintlockJazz Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 I've been around for at least a bit of that. I don't see how a companion who is open to advances of either sex make it so, 'half the companions are You are arguing with the wrong person, I was just telling CrazyPea about that particular argument. 1 "That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail "Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams
jarpie Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Relationships are at the heart of the human psyche and all fiction, including narrative driven rpgs, deal with the subject on one level or another - Even (and Especially) Planescape: Torment. This doesn't take resources/writing way from the rest of the game, because, from the narrative point of view, it IS the game. Now, not every relationship needs to be romantic, but romances are a type of relationship. And since a huge chunk of our psyche is devoted to attracting a suitable mate, it can be a powerful emotive draw; If it's handled well, a romance can keep the reader, viewer or (dare I say it) gamer on the edge of their seats. If this wasn't the case, Romeo and Juliet would had vanished into obscurity long ago. From a dramatic point of view, romances are a gold mine for creating obstacles, challenges and rationales for characters - Everything that a good (or even great) role-playing game would seek to create. Or are the vocal people on this board simply interested in the grinding of leveling and combat? In which case, why play a narrative driven rpg in the first place? As for diversity and equality: Why should romance options only be available to straight people? Believe it, or not, plenty of players aren't actually straight. Or do you believe (this is an open question, not aimed anyone specific), that THEY should get THEIR own game and stop spoiling OURS? If so, welcome to being prejudiced. Why should every game have romances? Does every film or book have romances? would film like The Treasure of Sierra Madre get any better if we would add romances into it? What about 2001: A Space Odyssey (both book and film), and what about The Thing by John Carpenter? Would it make games like Ultima 4-7 any better if companions of Avatar would be romanceable? Would it add anything to the story of Ultima 5 which is about oppression, moral absolutes and corruption of men (and women)? or Ultima 6 which is about racist prejudices and co-existance, and consequences of what you have done in the previous games? Does your whole life revolve around romantic relationships? if not, why should it in games? There are so many potential stories what are possible in Project Eternity without including romances. Did you read the lines: Now, not every relationship needs to be romantic, but romances are a type of relationship. And since a huge chunk of our psyche is devoted to attracting a suitable mate, it can be a powerful emotive draw; If it's handled well, a romance can keep the reader, viewer or (dare I say it) gamer on the edge of their seats. ... From a dramatic point of view, romances are a gold mine for creating obstacles, challenges and rationales for characters - Everything that a good (or even great) role-playing game would seek to create. The examples I gave didn't have anykind romance at all, and all of those are -very- highly regarded as films and/or books. 2001: A Space Odyssey was sixth in the Sight & Sound poll, which is held every ten years for film makers and film critics. My point was that not every RPG should have romances, so why this specific game should? Edited October 19, 2012 by jarpie
Jarmo Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Why should every game have romances? Does every film or book have romances? would film like The Treasure of Sierra Madre get any better if we would add romances into it? What about 2001: A Space Odyssey (both book and film), and what about The Thing by John Carpenter? Would it make Citizen Kane or Star Wars any better if they had romances? Oh.. wait they did. No not every movie or game needs to have them and the inclusion doesn't automatically make them better. Not every movie has swordfighting either and that doesn't make them bad movies. But hey, if we go and look up a list of 100 best films of all time, would you guess how many of those would, and how many would not have romance in there? Not necessarily as the central theme, but in there anyway. My guess is that most would.
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