The "Unofficial" P.E. Relationship/Romance thread

[Gecimen]

I, at least to a small extent understand where you are coming from. (Hell, do you really think the raiders in Fallout who capture people don't do six, twitsted things to them before killing them and then EATING them).

 

But people are so conditioned to find rape such an abhorent crime that its even worse than death and cannibalism and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon, no matter how mature a world they want to develop.

 

No, you fully understand where I'm coming from. There's no other reason I would consider rape in any game and it was just one word out of my 100+ word post that some smart guy picked.

[jarpie]

I love romantic happy endings and endings with marriage or families. I'll be the first to admit that I am a hopeless romantic, and I love those few times I can really relish in it.

 

First and foremost, if there is a romance option for PE, it should be just that; an option. Possibly a gameplay toggle. That way, people like me can have what we want, but others that do not want that in their game can simply turn it off.

 

I would love to see a complex questline/dialogue that leads from strangers, to acquaintances, to lovers. Is this hard to do well? Yes. Does it have to impact the game? Of course not. There's a lot of development and writing time untill 2014, and obsidian knows what they're doing.

 

I know I'm going to get jumped on for this, but I liked how the mass effect romances were almost separate from the rest of the game. Maybe romances can't be started untill we have the stronghold? The stronghold could act like the ship in ME2. Quest hub, shops, ect. but what if it's also a place where you can really get to know the companions? Those of us that want to go down that path can, and if the option is toggled, people can talk to their companions without fear of starting a romance they don't want.

 

No game has handled romances perfectly. While some of the dialogue was cheesy, and some of the animations.. unnecessary, I applaud BW for taking the chances it did. Travelling with people, regardless of reasons, can cause all sorts of stress and anxiety, ask anyone that has performed on a show. You spend the majority of your days with people of mixed sexes, and there's bound to be some attraction.

 

The trick is writing that. It's tough, and likely impossible if you haven't experienced it yourself. But I still think it should be attempted, if only to push that narrative closer to being realistic.

 

 

That is exactly the thing we do not want in PE and I very much doubt, and I'd be almost certain that PE won't have stuff like that. Have you maybe tried Sims Medieval?

 

But if it were a toggle-able option, you could choose to turn it off. For you, it simply wouldn't exist.

 

Edit: Ah, so you want romances, just not those like in Bioware games. Fine, how would you want the dialogue to work? I only suggested the stronghold as a means of keeping the two things a bit separated. having a companion talk to you randomly is a novel idea, but it can get old and sometimes distracting.

 

This brings back the argument me and others have been bringing; it takes the resources from doing the other stuff, such as writing non-romance dialogue and doing other kind of mechanics.

 

As I have said before, I am not against romances like they were done in PS:T but I don't want romances like in Bioware games.

[Fear]

I wholeheartedly recommend the "Harvest Moon" series too for 'Pick your own relationship partner' games. They're really cutesy and fun! :D

 

Emotions, love, and family ties are great, I just personally never found them mixing so well with the whole Kill-the-dragons-and-save-the-world 'serious RPG' stick. I mean, they do, but as a focal point, they can fall kind of flat next to the fate of the entire world/universe/etc... Flirty lines here and there is the most I throw in whenever I'm finding myself as part of an adventuring party. Imply something, make fellow companions feel good about themselves, and then focus on what is at the pointy end of the blade. Mass Effect felt forced and awkward to me, every time. Avoiding it was not as simple as I hoped it would be though.

Even if it were a toggle-able option does not change the fact that the options have to be provided, and that means time and resources spent on content that most of the target audience may not even care for primarily, skimming on other content that has also a rightful place in the project AND would be for everyone.

 

Furthermore there is a reason why rape is not touched even with a ten-feet-pole by most. If one knows to be unable to treat it with the required seriousness and gravity that it deserves you risk downplaying the heinous act of physical and psychological violence that it is; at best, and portraying it as a desirable if not heroic act at the very worst. While I thankfully was spared the first-hand personal experience with it so far I still feel strongly about the topic and it resonates deeply within me and I find it disturbing on a very personal level.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Fear

[Gecimen]

To those who oppose any kind of romances, know that they sell games and we need the game to sell if we want more games from Obsidian.

[HereticSaint]

I love romantic happy endings and endings with marriage or families. I'll be the first to admit that I am a hopeless romantic, and I love those few times I can really relish in it.

 

First and foremost, if there is a romance option for PE, it should be just that; an option. Possibly a gameplay toggle. That way, people like me can have what we want, but others that do not want that in their game can simply turn it off.

 

I would love to see a complex questline/dialogue that leads from strangers, to acquaintances, to lovers. Is this hard to do well? Yes. Does it have to impact the game? Of course not. There's a lot of development and writing time untill 2014, and obsidian knows what they're doing.

 

I know I'm going to get jumped on for this, but I liked how the mass effect romances were almost separate from the rest of the game. Maybe romances can't be started untill we have the stronghold? The stronghold could act like the ship in ME2. Quest hub, shops, ect. but what if it's also a place where you can really get to know the companions? Those of us that want to go down that path can, and if the option is toggled, people can talk to their companions without fear of starting a romance they don't want.

 

No game has handled romances perfectly. While some of the dialogue was cheesy, and some of the animations.. unnecessary, I applaud BW for taking the chances it did. Travelling with people, regardless of reasons, can cause all sorts of stress and anxiety, ask anyone that has performed on a show. You spend the majority of your days with people of mixed sexes, and there's bound to be some attraction.

 

The trick is writing that. It's tough, and likely impossible if you haven't experienced it yourself. But I still think it should be attempted, if only to push that narrative closer to being realistic.

 

 

That is exactly the thing we do not want in PE and I very much doubt, and I'd be almost certain that PE won't have stuff like that. Have you maybe tried Sims Medieval?

 

But if it were a toggle-able option, you could choose to turn it off. For you, it simply wouldn't exist.

 

Edit: Ah, so you want romances, just not those like in Bioware games. Fine, how would you want the dialogue to work? I only suggested the stronghold as a means of keeping the two things a bit separated. having a companion talk to you randomly is a novel idea, but it can get old and sometimes distracting.

 

This brings back the argument me and others have been bringing; it takes the resources from doing the other stuff, such as writing non-romance dialogue and doing other kind of mechanics.

 

As I have said before, I am not against romances like they were done in PS:T but I don't want romances like in Bioware games.

 

Here's the problem, the stance you are taking on it is this:

 

I get what I want, you don't get what you want is my ultimate goal.

 

 

Here's the stance of at least some (most, if not all) people who want romances:

 

We aren't asking for romances to be invasive, dating sims, or like what Bioware did, we want deeping, meaningful dialogue in intimate relationships that we can enjoy.

 

Now you are saying that is unreasonable because it takes away from other parts of the game, well, what the hell do the parts you want do then?

[kenup]

To those who oppose any kind of romances, know that they sell games and we need the game to sell if we want more games from Obsidian.

So you want the game to do anything in order to sell more? FPS games sell as well, should PE change from it's current goal to become a MW clone?

[Blackstream]

I think if you just go with the (from what I can tell because I've only watched a few lets plays) planescape torment route and have a ton of dialogue responses, it solves all issues anyways. You have to click on the flirty options to even go down that route, and even if the girl/guy initiates on you, you can choose to be disinterested from the start. It's a much more natural way to go about things, and I think it'd make everyone happy.

 

To make my suggestion more clear, if when a companion says something, you have like 5-10 dialogue options, and only a few are flirty or whatever, you could just not pick those options, and after you've explored all the lore and such, pick the "Let's keep walking now" option and whatever.

 

Which is what I expected they'll be doing from the start. Everything the devs have said so far has pointed to a more natural, more rich, much fuller experience than we're used to. I doubt the Aerie of this game is just gonna every 2 game hours pop up the next stage of the relationship dialogue where your only options are to tell her off and possibly make her leave the party, or to be a decent human being and eventually have her baby.

[Hatori1181]

This brings back the argument me and others have been bringing; it takes the resources from doing the other stuff, such as writing non-romance dialogue and doing other kind of mechanics.

 

As I have said before, I am not against romances like they were done in PS:T but I don't want romances like in Bioware games.

 

Two points:

First, you're making an assumption. We really don't have a definite release date, and noone has allotted the money to development teams, nor are we likely to know when they do. If writing is prioritized, as I feel it should be, the getting a team of writers will make the entire project better. Romances included.

 

Second point:

If the Bioware games are so terrible, what should be done instead? What, in your opinion, is a good example of romances in a game?

 

Edit again: you mentioned PS:T. I haven't played PS in years, but what I remember of the "romance" was very dark and emo. (god, I hate using that term, but it's what comes to mind.) I'm tired of dark and edgy. I can't remember the last time the hero of a game was just that. The goddamned hero. No dark and tragic past, no bleeding wrists love story, no sacrificial end. Just a person that is called up either by a higher power or their own initiative to fight against a rising tide of evil, save the day and maybe, just maybe, find someone that can understand them for who they are and what they've been through, because they shared the same experiences.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Hatori1181

[Mrakvampire]

So you want the game to do anything in order to sell more? FPS games sell as well, should PE change from it's current goal to become a MW clone?

 

So now we start comparing romances to FPS. Good arguments. Next step - "Romances - are devil! Burn those, who propose them!"

Edited October 18, 2012 by Mrakvampire

[HereticSaint]

To those who oppose any kind of romances, know that they sell games and we need the game to sell if we want more games from Obsidian.

So you want the game to do anything in order to sell more? FPS games sell as well, should PE change from it's current goal to become a MW clone?

 

I think asking for well written romance dialogues between at least a few characters of different gender is far from anything. Hyperbole is bad.

 

On top of that, if they have to sacrifice small things for them to sell MANY more copies, then the answer is yes. Because I want sequals. Obviously there's a line, but you rather exaggerate.

[kenup]

So you want the game to do anything in order to sell more? FPS games sell as well, should PE change from it's current goal to become a MW clone?

 

So now we start comparing romances to FPS. Good arguments. Next step - "Romances - are devil! Burn those, how propose them!"

I didn't compare "romances" to anything. The logic in his post says "Do X thing, just to sell more.", that's what I challenged.

[Living One]

By 'we' who don't want Bioware-style romances in PE. You are obviously trying to suggest that I suffer from somekind of personality disorder, very decent of you.

 

And those "who don't want Bioware-style romances in PE" allowed you to speak for them? Hivemind, obviously.

No, I never tried to suggest anything like that, that was just a simple question about why do you dare to speak for others.

He means people of refined tastes,of course.

 

Are you sure? Maybe you should ask him, before answering on his behalf? Hivemind?

Biowarians talking about hiveminds.The irony.

 

Edit:

"Romances - are devil! Burn those, how propose them!"

Finally something that makes sense.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Living One

[Mrakvampire]

I didn't compare "romances" to anything. The logic in his post says "Do X thing, just to sell more.", that's what I challenged.

 

You can't challenge logic with unlogical statements.

[Mrakvampire]

Biowarians talking about hiveminds.The irony.

 

I speak only for myself, never for others. And please, stop using names like 'Biowarians' or 'Biodrones'. Thank you in advance.

[HereticSaint]

So you want the game to do anything in order to sell more? FPS games sell as well, should PE change from it's current goal to become a MW clone?

 

So now we start comparing romances to FPS. Good arguments. Next step - "Romances - are devil! Burn those, how propose them!"

I didn't compare "romances" to anything. The logic in his post says "Do X thing, just to sell more.", that's what I challenged.

 

Again, romances aren't, "anything".

 

Here's the ridiculous leap you made as another anology

 

Me: "I would streak for a million dollars"

 

You: "You would join the porn industry for a million dollars?!?!?!?!?!?!" (Although yours is even more ridiculous).

[kenup]

To those who oppose any kind of romances, know that they sell games and we need the game to sell if we want more games from Obsidian.

So you want the game to do anything in order to sell more? FPS games sell as well, should PE change from it's current goal to become a MW clone?

 

I think asking for well written romance dialogues between at least a few characters of different gender is far from anything. Hyperbole is bad.

 

On top of that, if they have to sacrifice small things for them to sell MANY more copies, then the answer is yes. Because I want sequals. Obviously there's a line, but you rather exaggerate.

Not everything has to have a direct sequel, but aside from that,

 

No good writer makes sacrifices for the masses. They write what they want, and those that matter love it.

Edited October 18, 2012 by kenup

[jarpie]

I love romantic happy endings and endings with marriage or families. I'll be the first to admit that I am a hopeless romantic, and I love those few times I can really relish in it.

 

First and foremost, if there is a romance option for PE, it should be just that; an option. Possibly a gameplay toggle. That way, people like me can have what we want, but others that do not want that in their game can simply turn it off.

 

I would love to see a complex questline/dialogue that leads from strangers, to acquaintances, to lovers. Is this hard to do well? Yes. Does it have to impact the game? Of course not. There's a lot of development and writing time untill 2014, and obsidian knows what they're doing.

 

I know I'm going to get jumped on for this, but I liked how the mass effect romances were almost separate from the rest of the game. Maybe romances can't be started untill we have the stronghold? The stronghold could act like the ship in ME2. Quest hub, shops, ect. but what if it's also a place where you can really get to know the companions? Those of us that want to go down that path can, and if the option is toggled, people can talk to their companions without fear of starting a romance they don't want.

 

No game has handled romances perfectly. While some of the dialogue was cheesy, and some of the animations.. unnecessary, I applaud BW for taking the chances it did. Travelling with people, regardless of reasons, can cause all sorts of stress and anxiety, ask anyone that has performed on a show. You spend the majority of your days with people of mixed sexes, and there's bound to be some attraction.

 

The trick is writing that. It's tough, and likely impossible if you haven't experienced it yourself. But I still think it should be attempted, if only to push that narrative closer to being realistic.

 

 

That is exactly the thing we do not want in PE and I very much doubt, and I'd be almost certain that PE won't have stuff like that. Have you maybe tried Sims Medieval?

 

But if it were a toggle-able option, you could choose to turn it off. For you, it simply wouldn't exist.

 

Edit: Ah, so you want romances, just not those like in Bioware games. Fine, how would you want the dialogue to work? I only suggested the stronghold as a means of keeping the two things a bit separated. having a companion talk to you randomly is a novel idea, but it can get old and sometimes distracting.

 

This brings back the argument me and others have been bringing; it takes the resources from doing the other stuff, such as writing non-romance dialogue and doing other kind of mechanics.

 

As I have said before, I am not against romances like they were done in PS:T but I don't want romances like in Bioware games.

 

Here's the problem, the stance you are taking on it is this:

 

I get what I want, you don't get what you want is my ultimate goal.

 

 

Here's the stance of at least some (most, if not all) people who want romances:

 

We aren't asking for romances to be invasive, dating sims, or like what Bioware did, we want deeping, meaningful dialogue in intimate relationships that we can enjoy.

 

Now you are saying that is unreasonable because it takes away from other parts of the game, well, what the hell do the parts you want do then?

 

How about "Brothers in Arms"-camaraderie, the actual story and plot, deal with deeper issues - for example a game where main character is suffering from amnesia, it could deal with "Is the man more than sum of his memories?" - but PE probably won't go this route but something else like that would grand, antagonistic relationships with NPCs (not necessarely companions), a well written dialogue with NPCs and companions, dealing with the souls in the game meaningful way (as how they affect the personalities of people).

 

Enough for you?

Edited October 18, 2012 by jarpie

[HereticSaint]

I love romantic happy endings and endings with marriage or families. I'll be the first to admit that I am a hopeless romantic, and I love those few times I can really relish in it.

 

First and foremost, if there is a romance option for PE, it should be just that; an option. Possibly a gameplay toggle. That way, people like me can have what we want, but others that do not want that in their game can simply turn it off.

 

I would love to see a complex questline/dialogue that leads from strangers, to acquaintances, to lovers. Is this hard to do well? Yes. Does it have to impact the game? Of course not. There's a lot of development and writing time untill 2014, and obsidian knows what they're doing.

 

I know I'm going to get jumped on for this, but I liked how the mass effect romances were almost separate from the rest of the game. Maybe romances can't be started untill we have the stronghold? The stronghold could act like the ship in ME2. Quest hub, shops, ect. but what if it's also a place where you can really get to know the companions? Those of us that want to go down that path can, and if the option is toggled, people can talk to their companions without fear of starting a romance they don't want.

 

No game has handled romances perfectly. While some of the dialogue was cheesy, and some of the animations.. unnecessary, I applaud BW for taking the chances it did. Travelling with people, regardless of reasons, can cause all sorts of stress and anxiety, ask anyone that has performed on a show. You spend the majority of your days with people of mixed sexes, and there's bound to be some attraction.

 

The trick is writing that. It's tough, and likely impossible if you haven't experienced it yourself. But I still think it should be attempted, if only to push that narrative closer to being realistic.

 

 

That is exactly the thing we do not want in PE and I very much doubt, and I'd be almost certain that PE won't have stuff like that. Have you maybe tried Sims Medieval?

 

But if it were a toggle-able option, you could choose to turn it off. For you, it simply wouldn't exist.

 

Edit: Ah, so you want romances, just not those like in Bioware games. Fine, how would you want the dialogue to work? I only suggested the stronghold as a means of keeping the two things a bit separated. having a companion talk to you randomly is a novel idea, but it can get old and sometimes distracting.

 

This brings back the argument me and others have been bringing; it takes the resources from doing the other stuff, such as writing non-romance dialogue and doing other kind of mechanics.

 

As I have said before, I am not against romances like they were done in PS:T but I don't want romances like in Bioware games.

 

Here's the problem, the stance you are taking on it is this:

 

I get what I want, you don't get what you want is my ultimate goal.

 

 

Here's the stance of at least some (most, if not all) people who want romances:

 

We aren't asking for romances to be invasive, dating sims, or like what Bioware did, we want deeping, meaningful dialogue in intimate relationships that we can enjoy.

 

Now you are saying that is unreasonable because it takes away from other parts of the game, well, what the hell do the parts you want do then?

 

How about "Brothers in Arms"-camaraderie, the actual story and plot, deal with deeper issues - for example a game where main character is suffering from amnesia, it could deal with "Is the man more than sum of his memories?" - but PE probably won't go this route but something else like that would grand, antagonistic relationships with NPCs (not necessarely companions), a well written dialogue with NPCs and companions, dealing with the souls in the game meaningful way (as how they effect the personalities of people).

 

Enough for you?

 

This all sounds incredibly interesting.

 

Here's my thing, I personally enjoy romance. I'm not saying it -HAS- to be in the game, I am saying that there shouldn't be this wall of people going, "OMG YOU WANT ROMANCE LOLOLOLOLOL BIOWARE LOLOLOLOL YOU FAP TO CARTOONS, LOLOLOLOL ETC". I'm saying they shouldn't leave it our BECAUSE of these people.

 

Glad we could reach some sort of understanding at least.

[jarpie]

This brings back the argument me and others have been bringing; it takes the resources from doing the other stuff, such as writing non-romance dialogue and doing other kind of mechanics.

 

As I have said before, I am not against romances like they were done in PS:T but I don't want romances like in Bioware games.

 

Two points:

First, you're making an assumption. We really don't have a definite release date, and noone has allotted the money to development teams, nor are we likely to know when they do. If writing is prioritized, as I feel it should be, the getting a team of writers will make the entire project better. Romances included.

 

Second point:

If the Bioware games are so terrible, what should be done instead? What, in your opinion, is a good example of romances in a game?

 

Edit again: you mentioned PS:T. I haven't played PS in years, but what I remember of the "romance" was very dark and emo. (god, I hate using that term, but it's what comes to mind.) I'm tired of dark and edgy. I can't remember the last time the hero of a game was just that. The goddamned hero. No dark and tragic past, no bleeding wrists love story, no sacrificial end. Just a person that is called up either by a higher power or their own initiative to fight against a rising tide of evil, save the day and maybe, just maybe, find someone that can understand them for who they are and what they've been through, because they shared the same experiences.

 

How about something else what Bioware is doing? This is Obsidian's game, not Bioware's. Have you ever played any games by Obsidian? Is Fallout: New Vegas anything like what Bioware has done?

[Mrakvampire]

This is Obsidian's game, not Bioware's.

 

Yes, sure. But they clearly stated that they want it based on IE games, that were originally created by Bioware.

[jarpie]

This is Obsidian's game, not Bioware's.

 

Yes, sure. But they clearly stated that they want it based on IE games, that were originally created by Bioware.

 

Like Planescape: Torment and Icewind Dale 1+2 were? Oh wait...no, no they were not.

[kenup]

This is Obsidian's game, not Bioware's.

 

Yes, sure. But they clearly stated that they want it based on IE games, that were originally created by Bioware.

hahahaahahahahaha! Nice one!

[Mrakvampire]

Like Planescape: Torment and Icewind Dale 1+2 were? Oh wait...no, no they were not.

 

Yes, cause BG 1 is the father of those games and PS:T and IWD - are children of BG 1.

[Hatori1181]

This brings back the argument me and others have been bringing; it takes the resources from doing the other stuff, such as writing non-romance dialogue and doing other kind of mechanics.

 

As I have said before, I am not against romances like they were done in PS:T but I don't want romances like in Bioware games.

 

Two points:

First, you're making an assumption. We really don't have a definite release date, and noone has allotted the money to development teams, nor are we likely to know when they do. If writing is prioritized, as I feel it should be, the getting a team of writers will make the entire project better. Romances included.

 

Second point:

If the Bioware games are so terrible, what should be done instead? What, in your opinion, is a good example of romances in a game?

 

Edit again: you mentioned PS:T. I haven't played PS in years, but what I remember of the "romance" was very dark and emo. (god, I hate using that term, but it's what comes to mind.) I'm tired of dark and edgy. I can't remember the last time the hero of a game was just that. The goddamned hero. No dark and tragic past, no bleeding wrists love story, no sacrificial end. Just a person that is called up either by a higher power or their own initiative to fight against a rising tide of evil, save the day and maybe, just maybe, find someone that can understand them for who they are and what they've been through, because they shared the same experiences.

 

How about something else what Bioware is doing? This is Obsidian's game, not Bioware's. Have you ever played any games by Obsidian? Is Fallout: New Vegas anything like what Bioware has done?

 

That doesn't have any bearing on what I asked. I'm not comparing the gameplay, I'm using bioware as an example of romances in a game.

[Althernai]

I haven't played PS in years, but what I remember of the "romance" was very dark and emo. (god, I hate using that term, but it's what comes to mind.) I'm tired of dark and edgy. I can't remember the last time the hero of a game was just that. The goddamned hero. No dark and tragic past, no bleeding wrists love story, no sacrificial end.

I don't think the PS:T romances were particularly dark or emo. It's just that the game itself was a tragedy so the romances necessarily did not end well. And I agree with you about "dark and edgy". It worked in PS:T, but that was a decade ago and it's really been overused since then. At this point it would be more original to do something like the Baldur's Gate series.