Humanoid Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) the logic you used makes no sense. Barring an enemy being ressurected, you NEVER kill the same enemy twice. It's also why weaker enemies are worth less xp than tougher monsters and why a kobold is worth more if you face him at level 1 than if you face him at level 10. Capiche? In your scenario above, you kill the enemies only once. If you sneak past them multiple times you should get less xp each time 9if any at all) because you already learned/proved you can sneak past them. It's just a simple observation of what's missed when the argument of "doing something" needing to inherently be worth XP is made. I certainly don't back it, but it also illustrates the flaw of the argument that balancing doesn't matter in a single-player game. And while it's not a point I had intended, it's interesting to me now to observe that reducing the XP reward for a hypothetical repeat-sneak is sort of double-dipping on the penalty, unless as a parallel, the second kobold you face at level one is worth less than the first. Edited October 16, 2012 by Humanoid L I E S T R O N GL I V E W R O N G
Humanoid Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I voted for... but I do have a concern about say an encounter with a group of enemies (for example a very tough enemy adventuring party) that is not assigned to a quest. Will defeating these guys give no experience then? I'd be kind of disappointing if I spent a lot of time setting up a good strategy and upon finally beating these guys to receive no xp. Probably easiest to think with a game designer's hat on. What are those hypothetical adventurers doing to have been put into the game? Maybe they have a quest item on them, even if you don't have an official quest to retrieve it. Maybe they're on a quest of their own, which you now know about and can now do in their stead. Or maybe it just turned out they were public enemy number one in a neighbouring region. In any of the above, or any other, cases, the encounter would have links to some future outcome (they may be the beginning of a chain, or you may have blundered into a chain midway through), not just something placed there for the hell of it. L I E S T R O N GL I V E W R O N G
Providence Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 YES, xp kills are for MMOs and Mass Effect and evil stuff that no self-respecting role-player should cherish!! I want to get the same xp sneaking and bribing through the entire game as the guy who defeats things! Also, why would they want to get XP for actually engaging in combat and killing stuff... it's not like they can then improve combat skillz on level up, LOL. Tactical combat encounters? Who cares. If some wish to engage in tactical encounters and use TaKTiks to defeat foes.. so be it. But don't you dare to ask to be rewarded with xp for killing, mmkey? It's dirty and IMBA (how will you BALANZ??) and you can grind because PE will be a grindable MMO liek Warcraft... oh, wait, sorry, maybe it won't be.. but regardless - NO XP FOR KILLZ! It's evil and it hurts you and your familiy (and friends possibly). 1
Hormalakh Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) the logic you used makes no sense. Barring an enemy being ressurected, you NEVER kill the same enemy twice. It's also why weaker enemies are worth less xp than tougher monsters and why a kobold is worth more if you face him at level 1 than if you face him at level 10. Capiche? In your scenario above, you kill the enemies only once. If you sneak past them multiple times you should get less xp each time (if any at all) because you already learned/proved you can sneak past them. Not the same enemy, but same enemy type and challenge rating. I thought that one way around this problem would be to 1- either change it so you don't get xp for sneaking, but rather you improve your sneak skill, and similarly with other mechanics AND/OR 2- your experience gained becomes a function of the challenge rating for that particular action. In your example, as you sneak by easier foes, you gain less experience. Similarly as you kill easier foes you gain less experience. Until either mechanic no longer gives you experience. Edited October 16, 2012 by Hormalakh My blog is where I'm keeping a record of all of my suggestions and bug mentions. http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/ UPDATED 9/26/2014 My DXdiag: http://hormalakh.blogspot.com/2014/08/beta-begins-v257.html
jvempire Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) I voted for... but I do have a concern about say an encounter with a group of enemies (for example a very tough enemy adventuring party) that is not assigned to a quest. Will defeating these guys give no experience then? I'd be kind of disappointing if I spent a lot of time setting up a good strategy and upon finally beating these guys to receive no xp. This is where we can only assume how the game is designed. If they are designing the game around objectives, than what you described probably won't happen. Instead the tough enemies will be assigned to an objective in some way. Or people have been suggesting that maybe some tough enemies could be hidden objectives (like kill ancient dragon or something). Though, only once Obsidian starts talking about the specifics can we really dissect the game mechanics. Edited October 16, 2012 by jvempire
Volourn Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) "YES, xp kills are for MMOs and Mass Effect and evil stuff that no self-respecting role-player should cherish!!" What an illogical comment. XP for killing (and other stuff) is as OLD SKOOL RPGing as it gets. The oldest best CRPgs and pnp do it. The hilarious thing about your comment isn your precious ME2 doesn't - it does quest experience. L0L Why are you so against old skool RPGing and so for new age nonsense? Edited October 16, 2012 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Volourn Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 L0L DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Providence Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 "YES, xp kills are for MMOs and Mass Effect and evil stuff that no self-respecting role-player should cherish!!" What an illogical comment. XP for killing (and other stuff) is as OLD SKOOL RPGing as it gets. The oldest best CRPgs and pnp do it. The hilarious thing about your comment isn your precious ME2 doesn't - it does quest experience. L0L Why are you so against old skool RPGing and so for new age nonsense? ME2 DOS QUEST/OBJECTIVE based XP only? Liek this game, Eternity? For realz? I thought.. I thought.. it's the codex way to do XP. Never mind.
The Smiling Man Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I voted for. It'll give me more of a reason to explore the world better.
Providence Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I voted for. It'll give me more of a reason to explore the world better. I agree bro, there's no better incentive to explore areas full of monsters that want to kill you than awarding no xp for killing them. 1
Troller Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I voted for. It'll give me more of a reason to explore the world better. I agree bro, there's no better incentive to explore areas full of monsters that want to kill you than awarding no xp for killing them. Man, I cant wait to go through a cave full of monsters and almost kill all my party for no reason at all
Providence Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I voted for. It'll give me more of a reason to explore the world better. I agree bro, there's no better incentive to explore areas full of monsters that want to kill you than awarding no xp for killing them. Man, I cant wait to go through a cave full of monsters and almost kill all my party for no reason at all But it's all for RP and it's all about different ways of going through the cave.. You can sneak through it.. go through walls, walk upside down on the ceiling etc. You can even find a rusty sword. How is that not enough of an incentive for you!!? Don't make me come and spank you! 2
Jarmo Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I wonder how the votes would have gone a week ago, when it wasn't known this is the way developers are going to go. Certainly many actually think this is the best way to go, while (some/many?) give the vote as a vote of confidence for the developers. Had the question actually been "do you think Eternity XP system, as intended by the developers, will work out fine", I'd have voted for. Nothing wrong with either approach, just something I'd like to know. But absent time machine, we'll never have the answer to that one.
Providence Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 I wonder how the votes would have gone a week ago, when it wasn't known this is the way developers are going to go. Certainly many actually think this is the best way to go, while (some/many?) give the vote as a vote of confidence for the developers. Had the question actually been "do you think Eternity XP system, as intended by the developers, will work out fine", I'd have voted for. Nothing wrong with either approach, just something I'd like to know. But absent time machine, we'll never have the answer to that one. There actually was a poll about it. The results were vastly different. 2
Providence Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Link? Search for it in "general discussion". 1
Providence Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Since you're probably not competent enough to find it on your own and would rather sneak past it, here it is: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60533-experience-for-killing-enemies/ "Would you like experience to be rewarded for killing enemies?" (285 member(s) have cast votes) Yes (96 votes [33.68%]) Yes, but only a small amount to favour other aspects of the game than combat (86 votes [30.18%]) Yes, but only for big fights like boss battles (25 votes [8.77%]) Yes, so long as the number of enemies in the game is fixed thereby fixing total combat experience (12 votes [4.21%]) . . . No = (66 votes [23.16%]) OH! That crowd was not so HardKOre like the ME2 quest-xp-only crowd. (printscreen'd) 1
Troller Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Since you're probably not competent enough to find it on your own and would rather sneak past it, here it is: http://forums.obsidi...illing-enemies/ "Would you like experience to be rewarded for killing enemies?" (285 member(s) have cast votes) Yes (96 votes [33.68%]) Yes, but only a small amount to favour other aspects of the game than combat (86 votes [30.18%]) Yes, but only for big fights like boss battles (25 votes [8.77%]) Yes, so long as the number of enemies in the game is fixed thereby fixing total combat experience (12 votes [4.21%]) . . . No = (66 votes [23.16%]) OH! That crowd was not so HardKOre like the ME2 quest-xp-only crowd. (printscreen'd) hahaha I remember I thought it was so lame I voted "NO" just joking, I bet a lot of people who voted no thought the same.
Providence Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Since you're probably not competent enough to find it on your own and would rather sneak past it, here it is: http://forums.obsidi...illing-enemies/ "Would you like experience to be rewarded for killing enemies?" (285 member(s) have cast votes) Yes (96 votes [33.68%]) Yes, but only a small amount to favour other aspects of the game than combat (86 votes [30.18%]) Yes, but only for big fights like boss battles (25 votes [8.77%]) Yes, so long as the number of enemies in the game is fixed thereby fixing total combat experience (12 votes [4.21%]) . . . No = (66 votes [23.16%]) OH! That crowd was not so HardKOre like the ME2 quest-xp-only crowd. (printscreen'd) hahaha I remember I thought it was so lame I voted "NO" just joking, I bet a lot of people who voted no thought the same. If we were actually able to check who voted for what we'd probably see quite a few "it can be done right" opinion swappers. 1
MaximKat Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Well, either people just like voting "yes", no matter what the question is, or the vast majority is actually not stubborn and trust the people they are giving money to do their job.
Providence Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Well, either people just like voting "yes", no matter what the question is, or the vast majority is actually not stubborn and trust the people they are giving money to do their job. Because they can't do their job if people have an opinion and disagree with a specific design feature. How... logical.
MaximKat Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Wait, did I forbid you to have an opinion? It's a free country...
Volourn Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 A better poll would be one asking what xp system you prefer... a) XP by combat only b) xp by quest only C) xp by skills use only d) xp by combination of all 3 I wonder which would win... P.S. I vote for d DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Maf Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Yes (96 votes [33.68%]) Yes, but only a small amount to favour other aspects of the game than combat (86 votes [30.18%]) Yes, but only for big fights like boss battles (25 votes [8.77%]) Yes, so long as the number of enemies in the game is fixed thereby fixing total combat experience (12 votes [4.21%]) . . . No = (66 votes [23.16%]) Lucky for you that poll isn't biased at all and has a "I don't care" option. Oh wait.. And options 2 and 3 actually appear to be more goal based than the other 2 yes versions. Finally, the thing I STILL haven't seen answered by the against crew (if it was, SORRY!) Most of you appear to be advocating exploring for nothing isn't fun. I agree! But I think you are forgetting a couple of something... LOOT ?! STORY !? EASTER EGGS?! EVERYTHING OTHER THAN XP! Please explain, I am awaiting your answers If you can't explain yourself, I'm afraid you might be experiencing a number fetish. Edited October 16, 2012 by Maf
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