Idea: Remove of quest markers and inclusion of detailed journal.

[Highwinter]

It depends on the context. I'm all for ease of use features, assuming they don't interfere with gameplay. People are too quick to jump on the "they're dumbing it down!" bandwagon, when they're simply adding accessibility options or streamlining interfaces. Making a game easier to play doesn't mean it has to be dumb. I want an old school style game, but I don't want to go back to clunky menu's that require you read manuscripts before you understand how to even start playing the game.

 

For example, I don't see the problem with things like minimaps, as they simply allow you to see things in your surroundings without having to bring up a separate screen just to check where the inn is and so forth. Having waypoints to guide you in the general direction is okay too, assuming it makes sense, if my character knows where a town is and he's going there on a quest, all the arrow does is make it easier, if I want to get there and do that quest quickly. I definitely don't want to see it turn into Oblivion/Skyrim though, where the game needs to hold your hand throughout every single quest.

 

There's going to be harder difficulties and expert modes too, where I'm sure those features will be completely disabled anyway.

[khango]

I don't need floating compass markers, but in the giant cities and such it really helps if houses have name plates or map markers.

 

While I agree that in-game floating markers are a mistake, to a certain degree it feels weird when you barge into people's living rooms because you don't have a clear idea of what's where or you're looking for a random encounter. So I think it's good for quests to get map markers, though if they managed to give every building a nameplate or sign, that'd probably work, too.

[Gyor]

I disagree I want quest markers, I like knowing where I'm going and where to find find it, and I like minimaps. Nothing is more frustrating then wondering in cicles lost or searching forever to find an in game.

 

Still one of the nows modes for hard core gamers I believe will likely do that, the one that removes tool tips.

[Wirdjos]

It depends on the context. I'm all for ease of use features, assuming they don't interfere with gameplay. People are too quick to jump on the "they're dumbing it down!" bandwagon, when they're simply adding accessibility options or streamlining interfaces. Making a game easier to play doesn't mean it has to be dumb. I want an old school style game, but I don't want to go back to clunky menu's that require you read manuscripts before you understand how to even start playing the game.

 

For example, I don't see the problem with things like minimaps, as they simply allow you to see things in your surroundings without having to bring up a separate screen just to check where the inn is and so forth. Having waypoints to guide you in the general direction is okay too, assuming it makes sense, if my character knows where a town is and he's going there on a quest, all the arrow does is make it easier, if I want to get there and do that quest quickly. I definitely don't want to see it turn into Oblivion/Skyrim though, where the game needs to hold your hand throughout every single quest.

 

There's going to be harder difficulties and expert modes too, where I'm sure those features will be completely disabled anyway.

 

Exactly, there will be extra difficulties and such. I think I'm happy with all the handholdy features existing as long as the game isn't developed with those features in mind i.e. I don't want to be completely and permanently lost if I chose not to play with those features enables. Another thing to remember is that a digital strategy guide is included in many of the reward tiers. That could take the place of quest markers in some situations.

[santanzchild]

Quest markers get rid of the actual questing its just walk here kill that now follow the next floating arrow and kill that now loot the corpse and follow the marker back to this guy to give him the lich dust and boar tusks....

 

How is hand holding fun?

 

And dont start with the whole well just make it an option to turn off thing. Bethesda tried that and you could turn off quest markers but since they where in the game quest text was not written in a way for you to beable to find the quest locations without the markers.

[Wirdjos]

I don't need floating compass markers, but in the giant cities and such it really helps if houses have name plates or map markers.

 

While I agree that in-game floating markers are a mistake, to a certain degree it feels weird when you barge into people's living rooms because you don't have a clear idea of what's where or you're looking for a random encounter. So I think it's good for quests to get map markers, though if they managed to give every building a nameplate or sign, that'd probably work, too.

 

I don't know if you meant it in this way, but a compass is a must for me and I mean a real actual compass that always points north. I wouldn't go hiking without one so why is my adventuring party traveling the world without know which way is north?

[santanzchild]

A compass I can live with its good for getting your orientation when looking at the map and trying to make your way some where.

[Zeyelth]

Since this is supposed to be a PC-exclusive game, it would be a shame not to use the full potential of the keyboard; I'd love to be able to scribble notes in the margin of journal entries, and on the map. Even better if the art visually mimics actual scribbling.

 

That said, I don't think removing journal entries and map markers entirely is a good idea. Mostly because if I don't play for a few days, I tend to forget where I am and what I was doing, where places are located, etc. On the other hand, I hate it when a huge arrow pops up, telling me where I should go. Especially when my character has never been there.

 

Explaining the mechanics in-game would make this a non-issue though; if you can't explain it, it's a good candidate for removal. For example, in addition to your own, custom entries, maybe an NPC companion could be responsible for the quest journal and map, which would explain why markers show up, and why new entries show up in the journal. Quest givers could also help you fill in that role, by simply ending the conversation with something like "Here, I'll mark it on the map for you".

 

As for highlighting NPCs and other areas on-screen using arrows, an alternative could be to have companions point out characters and places related to quests, if you ask them to help you look (maybe by marking certain quests in the journal as "active"). That said, I'm not against using GUI elements as visual aid, as long as it's done in moderation.

[turboprop]

Idea: Remove of quest markers and inclusion of detailed journal.

- This may indeed enliven a gameplay for many people. Just keep in mind small tip: when you think about remove, try to rephrase it with toggle.

 

For example, my thoughts towards interface include these basics:

• Maps or any other visual guidance may incorporate various methods based on layers which can be toggled on-off like Google-maps etc.
  
• Developers may take a use of diary style interface where some phrases act like hyperlinks which popup additional info, or offer action options.
  
• Some xml based tag interface for custom story extensions or whatever it will be intended for in future.
  

[Hassat Hunter]

Why would anyone remove the journal?

 

I mean, quest markers, ! and stuff, yeah, I don't want that. Map markers ala BG are good.

But loosing my journal? How are you supposed to keep track of quests?

 

Also, why would we need a mini-map when the area is 2D and we have a good clear overhead map???

[ogrezilla]

Also, why would we need a mini-map when the area is 2D and we have a good clear overhead map???

because you can use it to move the camera and to tell your characters to move farther without either having to slowly drag the screen or open the map up, drag to the spot you want, close the map and then send them. I don't want a zoomed in "radar" style mini-map. I want a small interactive version of the overhead map available on screen like warcraft 3 or league of legends.

Edited October 13, 2012 by ogrezilla

[HeedlessHorseman]

Games have had minimaps since probably longer than you have been playing them.

 

Back in my day, we had to make our own map using graph paper. AND IT WAS AWESOME.

 

I kid, I kid. Not about the graph paper, though. That really happened. A lot.

 

Granted, in an isometric game there's really no reason to have a mini-map because it'd just show what you can ALREADY SEE. A non-mini map, yes. As for quest markers . . . I don't need em in this type of game, and they look cheesy.

 

I considered making a map for the game the first time I played a MUD. But, I didn't play long enough for it to be worthwhile.

 

 

As for mini-maps, one idea is that if you want one, one of the party members has to make it. A way to signify that could be that the character's movement speed is slowed.

[Ignatius]

Bwahaha! Quest markers in Project Eternity? That's a joke, right?

[nikolokolus]

In short:

 

"'X' marks the spot" pirate booty maps are OK (sometimes ... sometimes not)

 

GPS waypoints suck.

[Badmojo]

Detailed info as default is nice, but there needs to be an *option* in settings for hints (point in the general direction) and flat out point to the location/place/item/person/etc for those situations where you either forget what you were looking for, or you just cannot find it and don't want to search the net for a walkthrough/help.

[Jaesun]

There should be no quest-markers of any sort. Just like all the IE games were. Kill that crap with FIRE.

 

Let us get back to games where you actually HAVE to read and listen and think.

[Hassat Hunter]

for those situations where you either forget what you were looking for, or you just cannot find it and don't want to search the net for a walkthrough/help.

Then you just need to go back to the questgiver and ask... right?

I don't think adding a "just show me the damn location" button works, that's kinda what we don't want in...

[Ignatius]

The only reason quest markers have been added is because developers have become to lazy to explicitly tell you through dialogue or even include a damn quest journal that gives you more than 2 lines of information.

[santanzchild]

Its also the modern "gamer" getting to lazy to actually play the damn game.

[Ignatius]

Oh, well yeah, that too. Sad state of affairs. Save us Obsidian!

[ogrezilla]

Its also the modern "gamer" getting to lazy to actually play the damn game.

its hard to really pin it on one side. Did writers get lazy because gamers weren't reading what they wrote or did gamers stop reading what they write because the writing got lazy? I'm sure its a lot of each.

[santanzchild]

I said also for that reason there are a number of guilty parties between the publisher, developers and player its just sad that it has dumbed down gaming in general to the point that 90% of modern mmo's and rpg's dont even require the text to be read to beat the game.

[ogrezilla]

I said also for that reason there are a number of guilty parties between the publisher, developers and player its just sad that it has dumbed down gaming in general to the point that 90% of modern mmo's and rpg's dont even require the text to be read to beat the game.

definitely agree.

[harhar!]

Detailed info as default is nice, but there needs to be an *option* in settings for hints (point in the general direction) and flat out point to the location/place/item/person/etc for those situations where you either forget what you were looking for, or you just cannot find it and don't want to search the net for a walkthrough/help.

 

That's what the journal is for, or you should be able to get those infos again from the questgiver. I also don't see what is so bad about not being able to solve a quest easily. Sure they could build in such an *option* but I have seen it way too many times, that they rely on this *option* and just make bad questdesign and don't give you **** for info, because you have the ****ing ezmode button.

[Virodhi]

You do occasionally end up with the other extreme, however. Like Morrowind. Vvardenfell was freaking enormous, and huge swathes of it all looked the same (gorgeous, aye, but still foyada upon foyada upon...oh look! another foyada). And in your pocket you had a map...for some inexplicable reason, since your character was apparently too dumb to actually use it to make note of locations, or even have your quest giver mark down a general area where they thought [location x] might be.

 

There was this one quest where you had to follow an apparently well-known pilgrimage path. And even then you ended up bumbling around like an idiot, because apparently no one in the past four thousand years had thought to actually write down directions.

 

The mod that allowed you to add markers was the greatest thing invented by the hand of man.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Virodhi