Automatic regeneration of hit points during combat

[Captain Shrek]

Because you don't know if it is hack and slash or not.

 

Especially with regenerating spammable (low level?) spells and regenerating stamina and no rest - "spamming" to boot, it has all the features of a hack and slash like DA2.

 

Jesus Christ Shrek, give your crusade a rest for a day, you are becoming worse then VotS, because in his case I am at least reasonably sure that he is trolling.

 

You are deluded. I have no crusade only very valid points. Appealing to emotions or trying to humiliate others indirectly by such stupid accusations is riddiculous internet tactics. Stop being immature.

 

Actually your points are far from valid. They are based on assumptions and jumping to the worst possible conclusions (too your mind). I can't speak to spells because I have no ideas how the system will actually work, but I can say that the stamina/health system Josh Sawyer mentioned can be absolutely brutal if they follow fairly closely to how Darklands did it. Tougher by far than any of the IE games, and only Shattered Lands was as tough among the SSI games in my opinion.

 

You have never played Darklands. Darklands does not allow auto-regenration.

 

After combat in Darklands, stamina regenerates, health on the other hand only regenerates with rest. Or are you thinking of a different game?

 

Yes. I am indeed. Games like Skyrim, Dragon age and co. where Spells have cool downs, stamina regens. The onyl difference here is that stamina is ALSO health analogue. Which means, dropping all the pretense that stamina is just Health +, health also regens. That game was COD.

[curryinahurry]

Because you don't know if it is hack and slash or not.

 

Especially with regenerating spammable (low level?) spells and regenerating stamina and no rest - "spamming" to boot, it has all the features of a hack and slash like DA2.

 

Jesus Christ Shrek, give your crusade a rest for a day, you are becoming worse then VotS, because in his case I am at least reasonably sure that he is trolling.

 

You are deluded. I have no crusade only very valid points. Appealing to emotions or trying to humiliate others indirectly by such stupid accusations is riddiculous internet tactics. Stop being immature.

 

Actually your points are far from valid. They are based on assumptions and jumping to the worst possible conclusions (too your mind). I can't speak to spells because I have no ideas how the system will actually work, but I can say that the stamina/health system Josh Sawyer mentioned can be absolutely brutal if they follow fairly closely to how Darklands did it. Tougher by far than any of the IE games, and only Shattered Lands was as tough among the SSI games in my opinion.

 

You have never played Darklands. Darklands does not allow auto-regenration.

 

After combat in Darklands, stamina regenerates, health on the other hand only regenerates with rest. Or are you thinking of a different game?

 

Yes. I am indeed. Games like Skyrim, Dragon age and co. where Spells have cool downs, stamina regens. The onyl difference here is that stamina is ALSO health analogue. Which means, dropping all the pretense that stamina is just Health +, health also regens. That game was COD.

 

Again, those are assumptions and I gave you a factual situation, that is the inspiration for at least the stamina portion of PE, that accomplishes the task elegantly. We have no idea of the rate of regeneration just like we don't know how quickly or in what quantity low level spells will regenerate or how this will actually effect encounters. The has yet to be designed. I'm going to leave it that; any more and we'll just be talking in circles.

 

cheers

[Captain Shrek]

Because you don't know if it is hack and slash or not.

 

Especially with regenerating spammable (low level?) spells and regenerating stamina and no rest - "spamming" to boot, it has all the features of a hack and slash like DA2.

 

Jesus Christ Shrek, give your crusade a rest for a day, you are becoming worse then VotS, because in his case I am at least reasonably sure that he is trolling.

 

You are deluded. I have no crusade only very valid points. Appealing to emotions or trying to humiliate others indirectly by such stupid accusations is riddiculous internet tactics. Stop being immature.

 

Actually your points are far from valid. They are based on assumptions and jumping to the worst possible conclusions (too your mind). I can't speak to spells because I have no ideas how the system will actually work, but I can say that the stamina/health system Josh Sawyer mentioned can be absolutely brutal if they follow fairly closely to how Darklands did it. Tougher by far than any of the IE games, and only Shattered Lands was as tough among the SSI games in my opinion.

 

You have never played Darklands. Darklands does not allow auto-regenration.

 

After combat in Darklands, stamina regenerates, health on the other hand only regenerates with rest. Or are you thinking of a different game?

 

Yes. I am indeed. Games like Skyrim, Dragon age and co. where Spells have cool downs, stamina regens. The onyl difference here is that stamina is ALSO health analogue. Which means, dropping all the pretense that stamina is just Health +, health also regens. That game was COD.

 

Again, those are assumptions and I gave you a factual situation, that is the inspiration for at least the stamina portion of PE, that accomplishes the task elegantly. We have no idea of the rate of regeneration just like we don't know how quickly or in what quantity low level spells will regenerate or how this will actually effect encounters. The has yet to be designed. I'm going to leave it that; any more and we'll just be talking in circles.

 

cheers

 

>I gave you factual info

 

No you did not. Darklands DOES NOT REGEN STAMINA OUTSIDE COMBAT. This requires 1 hour rest. Your constant source of misinformation indicates that you haven't played it. Also, there seems to be some confusion in your mind. It has been clearly declared that:

 

1) There will be CONSTANT REGEN on stamina

2) There will be very easy ways to increase it if it is lost.

 

Probably should check your facts before arguing.

[curryinahurry]

Because you don't know if it is hack and slash or not.

 

Especially with regenerating spammable (low level?) spells and regenerating stamina and no rest - "spamming" to boot, it has all the features of a hack and slash like DA2.

 

Jesus Christ Shrek, give your crusade a rest for a day, you are becoming worse then VotS, because in his case I am at least reasonably sure that he is trolling.

 

You are deluded. I have no crusade only very valid points. Appealing to emotions or trying to humiliate others indirectly by such stupid accusations is riddiculous internet tactics. Stop being immature.

 

Actually your points are far from valid. They are based on assumptions and jumping to the worst possible conclusions (too your mind). I can't speak to spells because I have no ideas how the system will actually work, but I can say that the stamina/health system Josh Sawyer mentioned can be absolutely brutal if they follow fairly closely to how Darklands did it. Tougher by far than any of the IE games, and only Shattered Lands was as tough among the SSI games in my opinion.

 

You have never played Darklands. Darklands does not allow auto-regenration.

 

After combat in Darklands, stamina regenerates, health on the other hand only regenerates with rest. Or are you thinking of a different game?

 

Yes. I am indeed. Games like Skyrim, Dragon age and co. where Spells have cool downs, stamina regens. The onyl difference here is that stamina is ALSO health analogue. Which means, dropping all the pretense that stamina is just Health +, health also regens. That game was COD.

 

Again, those are assumptions and I gave you a factual situation, that is the inspiration for at least the stamina portion of PE, that accomplishes the task elegantly. We have no idea of the rate of regeneration just like we don't know how quickly or in what quantity low level spells will regenerate or how this will actually effect encounters. The has yet to be designed. I'm going to leave it that; any more and we'll just be talking in circles.

 

cheers

 

>I gave you factual info

 

No you did not. Darklands DOES NOT REGEN STAMINA OUTSIDE COMBAT. This requires 1 hour rest. Your constant source of misinformation indicates that you haven't played it. Also, there seems to be some confusion in your mind. It has been clearly declared that:

 

1) There will be CONSTANT REGEN on stamina

2) There will be very easy ways to increase it if it is lost.

 

Probably should check your facts before arguing.

 

This is getting sad. Stamina regenerates after combat while you are looting bodies. Did you get that from a wiki or something? Now I'm starting to think you've never played Darklands and you're just trolling.

 

Oh and btw, constant regen is meaningless without knowing the rate.

[Captain Shrek]

 

This is getting sad. Stamina regenerates after combat while you are looting bodies. Did you get that from a wiki or something? Now I'm starting to think you've never played Darklands and you're just trolling.

 

Oh and btw, constant regen is meaningless without knowing the rate.

It only recovers when you are not involved in any special activity and takes 1 hr of game time.

 

You probably still do not understand: Darklands stamina DOES NOT recover during combat. PE does. Skyrim does. DA2 does. SKyrim, DA2 use stamina for special attacks; so does PE.

 

Your entire invocation of Darklands is confusing. Why do you keep thinking that this game has any similarity to PE compared to COD or Skyrim or DA2?

[Providence]

This is getting sad. Stamina regenerates after combat while you are looting bodies. Did you get that from a wiki or something? Now I'm starting to think you've never played Darklands and you're just trolling.

 

Oh and btw, constant regen is meaningless without knowing the rate.

It only recovers when you are not involved in any special activity and takes 1 hr of game time.

 

You probably still do not understand: Darklands stamina DOES NOT recover during combat. PE does. Skyrim does. DA2 does. SKyrim, DA2 use stamina for special attacks; so does PE.

 

Your entire invocation of Darklands is confusing. Why do you keep thinking that this game has any similarity to PE compared to COD or Skyrim or DA2?

 

I've bolded and enhanced parts of the sentence so that curryinahurry can hopefully start to understand the issue, one day.

 

No matter how slow the automatic regeneration is (Sawyer said it will be rapid, which is the opposite of slow).. IF there is any regeneration of hit points during combat it completely changes combat, and not in a good way.

[Uomoz]

No matter how slow the automatic regeneration is (Sawyer said it will be rapid, which is the opposite of slow).. IF there is any regeneration of hit points during combat it completely changes combat, and in a good way.

 

fix'd

Edited October 16, 2012 by Uomoz

[Elerond]

In stamina/health system, stamina represent how dazzled character is by hit and health represent how much actual physical damage hit made. And when you add that there is no magic cure for physical damage.

 

So blow on your characters head may be mostly stoped by helmet this is represented by character taking 1 point damage to his health, but same blow can cause your characters ears to ring and this is represented by character taking 14 point damage to his stamina. So stamina damage is not actual physical damage what your character endures, but fatigue and haze caused by enemies attacks, so recovering your stamina during combat is just what you would except and it also add more tactical depth to combat as you should be all the time cautious to take it as your character will be knocked out if his stamina goes to zero. Health damage is more serious sort of damge as it represent wounds, broken bones and etc. thing that take long time to recover and when there is no healing spells, health become very strategic resource.

 

So my opinion is this sytem will only make this game better rpg.

[Nixl]

Perhaps I am wrong, but the stamina system described sounds like the fatigue system used in Morrowind. A low stamina/fatigue score reduced accuracy, spell success chances, and dodge. While I understand Morrowind is not an IE game, I thought the fatigue system was good. The system kept characters in check and restricted a FPS style run, jump, click, and shoot style gameplay. Furthermore, it provided an extra resource to be mindful of when exploring and fighting.

 

Or, is the stamina bar just a regenerative shield?

Edited October 16, 2012 by Nixl

[Mrakvampire]

In stamina/health system, stamina represent how dazzled character is by hit and health represent how much actual physical damage hit made. And when you add that there is no magic cure for physical damage.

 

This can be represented by conditions. No need to break health system of IE games that is not broken.

[teknoman2]

i dont think they call it endurance and not hp for no reason. if you read the barbarian's description it says he fights furiously and recklessly, draining his endurance fast. so i think endurance is not just the measure of the damage you can sustain, but also the "mana pool" for your skills. and if i read between the lines right, you lose hp besides endurance during the fight and that means your max endurance drops, based on the amount of hp you miss. and since hp does not regenerate, your total efficiency drops the more you get hurt

Edited October 16, 2012 by teknoman2

[Providence]

<I removed a word from someone else's quote and now I feel smart>

 

Let me explain to you why in-combat automatic regeneration of hit-points, called stamina in PE, is a bad thing (regeneration only outside combat is bad too, but this is much worse):

 

- it is susceptible to cheesy tactics like running from your opponents (even in circles) to regenerate all your precious hit-points back

 

- even though health WON'T regenerate, stamina will, and if stamina is important at all.. it WILL matter if it's full or if it isn't (go back to point 1.)

 

- will opponents have this dual stamina/health bar as well, with stamina regenerating automatically (it would only make sense they do have it as well, if that's the case with the player character and party members)

 

- it is indeed much harder to balance encounters when you have to take into account a constant regeneration of hitpoints

[Tusck]

I'm against any type of natural regen. Hell, not only am I against this, I'm against all influences from mmos.

[Elerond]

In stamina/health system, stamina represent how dazzled character is by hit and health represent how much actual physical damage hit made. And when you add that there is no magic cure for physical damage.

 

This can be represented by conditions. No need to break health system of IE games that is not broken.

 

In health/stamina system you have similar health system from IE games (character has number of health points which each enemy's hit eat some and when they go zero character dies)

 

Addition to this you have stamina system. Character has number of stamina points which each enemy's hit eat some and when they go zero character is knocked out.

 

Each enemy hit causes damage to both health and stamina, but usually more to stamina.

 

Stamina system also allows more flexible condition system. For example sleep spell could great ammount stamina damage and therefore it isn't any more save check spell, but damage spell. And those characters with more stamina have better resistant against such spells.

 

So it is mechanic that don't destroy anything but add more possibilities using easier approach to things.

[Tamerlane]

Kiting is abuseable as hell no matter what HP system you use.

 

If they can slay that particular beast, they can replace the HP bar with a god damn granola bar for all I care.

[Gatt9]

In stamina/health system, stamina represent how dazzled character is by hit and health represent how much actual physical damage hit made. And when you add that there is no magic cure for physical damage.

 

This can be represented by conditions. No need to break health system of IE games that is not broken.

 

In health/stamina system you have similar health system from IE games (character has number of health points which each enemy's hit eat some and when they go zero character dies)

 

Addition to this you have stamina system. Character has number of stamina points which each enemy's hit eat some and when they go zero character is knocked out.

 

Each enemy hit causes damage to both health and stamina, but usually more to stamina.

 

Stamina system also allows more flexible condition system. For example sleep spell could great ammount stamina damage and therefore it isn't any more save check spell, but damage spell. And those characters with more stamina have better resistant against such spells.

 

So it is mechanic that don't destroy anything but add more possibilities using easier approach to things.

 

You're assigning different qualities to the same thing.

 

Since Stamina now performs the function of health, Stamina becomes health. This gives us Health A and Health B. Health A regenerates, very rapidly it seems.

 

This would be in contrast to a system in which Stamina and Health are functionally different, running out of stamina doesn't incapacitate the character. Damage does not reduce stamina. Further, the system does not need changed to achieve the stamina effects you describe, they can be implemented perfectly well without turning Stamina into regenerating health. Introducing Stamina-based effects does not require Stamina to become functionally identical to Health.

 

So it does destroy things, specifically, it introduces a mechanic that is heavily used by Consoles for no reason other than so that some subset of players don't have to press the "Rest" button because they hate pressing the "Rest" button. That's really not a good reason to alter a perfectly functioning system.

[Grand_Commander13]

Kiting is abuseable as hell no matter what HP system you use.

 

If they can slay that particular beast, they can replace the HP bar with a god damn granola bar for all I care.

I'm assuming that since they're going for tactical combat that we must get some kind of "attack of opportunity" mechanic in the game. Combine that with the fact that if you're regenerating your stamina so is the enemy, and if you can used a ranged weapon so can he... There's really no excuse for kiting to work if the game developer has heard of the tactic. The game just needs to be designed so that slow characters (and enemies) have ways of forcing the enemy to sit still and fight them.

[Elerond]

Gatt9 Stamina health system doesn't work as you described it.

 

Especially in games which Josh tells tha he uses as reference point.

[light487]

Let's get one thing straight before moving on.. Stamina is not Health. There are two things that relate to the overall vitality of the player and only one is Hit Points (Health). The way I see it is that Health would not automatically regen, unless you're out of combat and are resting.. and even then I believe you should have received some form of first aid, whether that be in the form of physical bandages, herbal ointments or magical spells. During combat one should be able to have hit points restored by a magic spell (no potions.. pulleeease!).

 

Stamina on the hand does regen over time when the player is resting, even during combat.. part of the damage that is inflicted on a character is taken from the Stamina pool and part from the Health pool.. the smaller amount will be from Health.. and I would assume that the maximum amount of stamina would reduce as the amount of health is reduced also.. meaning that someone with a lot of wounds would not be about to endure for as long as someone with no wounds (unless of course their stat points are higher.. of course!).

 

Once out of combat, the stamina will regen very quickly but, as stated above, the health will not unless first aid is given and rest taken. So what might happen if you're on a time limited quest is that you will end up at the destination quite battered and bruised and barely able to stand because you don't have time to regen your health but could still fight (though at a much reduced ability/efficiency) because your stamina has regen'ed.

[Mrakvampire]

Once out of combat, the stamina will regen very quickly but, as stated above, the health will not unless first aid is given and rest taken. So what might happen if you're on a time limited quest is that you will end up at the destination quite battered and bruised and barely able to stand because you don't have time to regen your health but could still fight (though at a much reduced ability/efficiency) because your stamina has regen'ed.

 

So we basically have regenerating health, but only renamed and reflavored.

Basically they try to sell us the same casual and dumbed down mechanic under new name.

 

Miss classic cRPG's like Baldur's Gate,Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment? So do we!

Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape Torment didn't try to sell us dumbed down casual mechanics. Yes, they are right. I miss those games. For sure.

[teknoman2]

you guys dont get it or you pretend not to?

lets make it a bit more clear

you have 100 hp and 100sp

geting hit by a sword takes away 10sp and 5hp, unless you have some gear magic etc that divert the hp damage to sp

using your power attack skill takes away 5sp

the enemy dies and you are with 95hp and 85sp

in the 3 seconds between killing that enemy and engaging the next you regenerate 3 sp

you get 3 hits from the next and use power attack once

you now have 80hp and 53sp and the battle is over.

now you are left with 85hp, and that means you max sp is 85

in the next battle you drop to -4sp and fall unconscious for 5 seconds until you are back to +1sp (if the enemy does not keep hitting you or finishes you off while you are down) and your hp drops to 40 by the end of it. that means that the next time you fight, your max sp will be 40.

and since there are no potions or magics that fix hp, but only red bull with aspirin to help with the pain and fatigue of lost sp, if you drink a postion that restores 20sp when your sp is 30 and your hp 40, you only get 10sp. to heal hp you will have to rest, and even then the amount you get back is small just as it was in IE games... something like 8hp for 8 hours of sleep

Edited October 17, 2012 by teknoman2

[Tamerlane]

I... what?

 

That's not the system they've described at all. Your present HP does not determine your stamina cap.

 

As far as I know.

 

****, I'm not the one who can't read now, right? Right?

[Uomoz]

Casual\Dumbed Down and it's a gameplay mechanic from a game of the 90 that is clearly hardcore oldschool?

 

In answer to the guy who quoted me: you assume that kiting will be viable, yet they declared that opportunity attacks are in, I'm not sure you'll be allowed to do it.

 

EDIT: Is it so hard to imagine stamina as a limited damage reduction based off your beefiness?

Edited October 17, 2012 by Uomoz

[Tamerlane]

Attacks of opportunity alone don't necessarily do it. It's still generally easy to lose AI on corners and pillars and what-not. Attacks of opportunity do damage but fail to tie up, so the guy gets one hit and then you blow by him. You can even drag the enemy by your guys to provoke attacks of opportunity from them.

 

I mean, I like attacks of opportunity as a concept, I just... I really hope they've got more than just that to keep the kiting down.

 

 

Why yes, I do hate marauders in Starcraft 2...

 

Once out of combat, the stamina will regen very quickly but, as stated above, the health will not unless first aid is given and rest taken. So what might happen if you're on a time limited quest is that you will end up at the destination quite battered and bruised and barely able to stand because you don't have time to regen your health but could still fight (though at a much reduced ability/efficiency) because your stamina has regen'ed.

 

So we basically have regenerating health, but only renamed and reflavored.

Basically they try to sell us the same casual and dumbed down mechanic under new name.

 

Miss classic cRPG's like Baldur's Gate,Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment? So do we!

Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and Planescape Torment didn't try to sell us dumbed down casual mechanics. Yes, they are right. I miss those games. For sure.

What Nameless One did you play?

[Captain Shrek]

Casual\Dumbed Down and it's a gameplay mechanic from a game of the 90 that is clearly hardcore oldschool?

 

In answer to the guy who quoted me: you assume that kiting will be viable, yet they declared that opportunity attacks are in, I'm not sure you'll be allowed to do it.

 

EDIT: Is it so hard to imagine stamina as a limited damage reduction based off your beefiness?

 

1) Not all things in Old games were good. i can name quite a few TERRIBLE old games. Superman 64 just for starters. Don't mention them just for kool points. You are not impressing anyone.

 

2) Are you talking about Darklands? It had no REGEN FOR STAMINA. This is more like Skyrim or DA2.