Dialogue & Stealth

[Chippy]

Just a niggling issue that kinda becomes a pain in the backside pretty quick when repeated too often - but forcing the player into dialogue that usually results in a confrontation, which triggers and then you find the enemy perfectly positioned to hurl death at your party (now standing out in the open) and clustered together.

 

It completely invalidates formation, cover, stealth, traps/skills, etc.

 

Once again the IE games handled that better. Although if someone else did the talking the enemy usually knew they wern't the party leader and their stats may not have been as good. Still a better trade of though than automatically loading the stealth character/protagonist and his party onto the bulleseye on the ground that ensures all party members are represented in the convesration, and all are ready to get equally pummeled when the fighting starts.

[DRevan]

Tim Cain said in his first update that you will be able to complete quests in various ways(stealth, dialogue, lockpicking etc'), not just combat.

[Palmtuna]

I would agree. There were a few times in KoTOR where you were forced to talk to someone. Even if you were hidden, you would suddenly uncloak and the person would look straight at you. The best way to fix that would probably be the ability to choose what member(s) of the party approach and which ones stay back in case things get ugly. I haven't played enough of the IE games to see how my idea compares though...

[Bobby Null]

This is definitely a level design issue. We'll set up good level design standards to avoid this as much as possible, but I've got some system ideas to go over with Josh that could make this a thing of the past.

[Hypevosa]

This is definitely a level design issue. We'll set up good level design standards to avoid this as much as possible, but I've got some system ideas to go over with Josh that could make this a thing of the past.

 

Quick and awesome. :D

[DocDoomII]

This is definitely a level design issue. We'll set up good level design standards to avoid this as much as possible, but I've got some system ideas to go over with Josh that could make this a thing of the past.

Much love and appreciation guys!

[C2B]

This is definitely a level design issue. We'll set up good level design standards to avoid this as much as possible, but I've got some system ideas to go over with Josh that could make this a thing of the past.

 

IIRC correctly you were one of the level designers on DSIII, right? That had those problems in boss fights, but it didn't matter as much IMO due to the battle system (Still, was gamebreaking for someone I know).

 

Unreleated but why did you do that in DSIII and what did you learn from it?

[Utukka]

Goes both ways, usually it's the PC storming the fort and the bad guys are going on like it's just another normal day at the office or they act suprised to see us there even tho we slaughtered everyone below.

[Umberlin]

This is definitely a level design issue. We'll set up good level design standards to avoid this as much as possible, but I've got some system ideas to go over with Josh that could make this a thing of the past.

 

Happy to hear this being something you're actually thinking of to any extent.

[Chippy]

It is really just a nitpicking irritation - when there's an npc that you want/have to talk to, but your main character has to sacrifice stealth and positioning to do so.

[Bobby Null]

This is definitely a level design issue. We'll set up good level design standards to avoid this as much as possible, but I've got some system ideas to go over with Josh that could make this a thing of the past.

 

IIRC correctly you were one of the level designers on DSIII, right? That had those problems in boss fights, but it didn't matter as much IMO due to the battle system (Still, was gamebreaking for someone I know).

 

Unreleated but why did you do that in DSIII and what did you learn from it?

 

Yes, I was a Level Designer on DS3 and the Lead Level Designer for Treasures of the Sun. DS3 had a form of cinematic dialogue. In order for the speakers of a particular line to be in frame, they need to be scripted to teleport to their mark for said scene. This is a perfect example of certain modern features affecting gameplay in a negative way. You might say, why not just teleport them back after the scene? That can be done in some cases, but it typically leads to reported bugs about the scene not looking very good.

 

I would agree with you in the sense we didn't feel it was a big deal for DS3 as it was not a large party, tactical game, there was not a stealth mechanic, etc. Without getting too technical, there are some features our new (at the time) dialogue editor did not have back then. It has continued to improve through the production of South Park: The Stick of Truth, and will only get better as we work on PE. This, coupled with the lack of cinematic dialogue, along with some new stuff I want to talk to Josh about, and well defined level standards, should address this very well.

[Leferd]

Bobby, do you anticipate that we will be able toggle loose or close set formations within the pre-sets? Additionally, tin stated that you guys will be looking into charge type attacks? Taking that a step further, will we be able to charge in with a close order wedge formation en masse, into an enemy formation?

[Bobby Null]

Bobby, do you anticipate that we will be able toggle loose or close set formations within the pre-sets? Additionally, tin stated that you guys will be looking into charge type attacks? Taking that a step further, will we be able to charge in with a close order wedge formation en masse, into an enemy formation?

 

Not sure how far we are going to take the Formation System. I've talked with Josh, Adam and Steve Weatherly (the programmer working on A.I, pathing, formations, etc.) about some cool ideas, but like a lot of the systems in PE, it is still very early to lock down a definitive answer. Right now these are simply "wouldn't it be cool" conversations as more basic functionality is currently being implemented. What I can tell you, is we will have formations, and I'd like to add some cool features to them to increase tactical use.

[Leferd]

Not sure how far we are going to take the Formation System. I've talked with Josh, Adam and Steve Weatherly (the programmer working on A.I, pathing, formations, etc.) about some cool ideas, but like a lot of the systems in PE, it is still very early to lock down a definitive answer. Right now these are simply "wouldn't it be cool" conversations as more basic functionality is currently being implemented. What I can tell you, is we will have formations, and I'd like to add some cool features to them to increase tactical use.

 

Understood that it's still very early.

 

There's definitely some areas you can take the formation systems, even at the squad level. The original Medieval: Total War may be something you may want to look at as a reference, if you haven't already done so (includes -morale, shock, flanking, environmental conditions, as well as formations).

 

Looking forward to see what you guys can come up with from a tactical perspective!

[Bobby Null]

The Total War series is, without question, my favorite strategy/sim series. I've played them all except the newest one (been busy). I'm anxiously waiting for Rome II.

[Sensuki]

Why is it unfair if the party is tactically out of position if they walk into such a sequence without first scouting?

 

I thought that was handled fine in the Baldur's Gate series.

 

The only thing I can think of is sequences where the enemies spawn after the dialogue finishes. And that's simply fixed by just including more options to beat the encounter. Or just to avoid doing that unless they come from the edge of the map.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Sensuki

[Gorth]

Slightly unrelated but one of my pet peeves, "rigging the competition"...

 

When you beat the snot out of somebody and the game tells you, sorry I can't let you win this fight and has unilaterally declared you a loser. Almost as bad as the scripted "magically pull everybody out of their hiding place and put them in the big bulls eye in the middle of the field where all the enemies can have a go at you despite you ambushing them" mechanic.

[santanzchild]

Nothing bugs me more then the you have to lose battles for story purposes. I cant tell you how many games I got stuck in a reload loop before I realized I had to die to progress.

[Leferd]

The Total War series is, without question, my favorite strategy/sim series. I've played them all except the newest one (been busy). I'm anxiously waiting for Rome II.

 

That entire quote is my exact same sentiment.

[Gorth]

Off topic, but I wonder if Bobby Null is his real name... sort of cool being able to write geeky stuff like "$62,$6F,$62,$62,$79,NULL" (null terminated string) on your business card

[Sensuki]

I think the Total War games have started to go down hill in a sense

 

The combat from Shogun: Total War right through to Medieval: Total War II was ****ing awesome, however that has severely dropped off since then. Now its kinda crap.

 

However the economic side of the game just kept getting better, Empire: Total War had an awesome economy system.

[alanschu]

I didn't care much for Medieval II, and Empire was meh and I skipped Napoleon. I love Shogun 2 though.

[Leferd]

I wonder when someone is gonna make a kickstarter taking advantage of the nostalgia for the classic Total War games (pre-RTW)?

 

-Board game style turn-based strategy

-2D background + terrain + animated sprites for tactical component

[Sensuki]

I didn't care much for Medieval II, and Empire was meh and I skipped Napoleon. I love Shogun 2 though.

 

The Gunpowder age ones are just line infantry battles, that's it. Not much to it really.

[Totally Awesome]

I hope I can complete nearly every quest (or every quest) just by non-violence.