Paladins and Bards

[rjshae]

I would like to see Paladins that represent a multitude of "alignments." For example you should be able to be a paladin of good god x or of neutral god y or even evil god z. Each with different abilties you could take and such.

 

 

Bard....all I say is MEH!

 

Historically, Paladins where essentially knights, some of whom later became seekers of holy relics. They were lawful in the sense of being the champions of the king and were perceived as "good" because of their chivalric code. In this view they were not all that different from samurai. I don't think you need an alignment system in order to be able to model a character like this. But perhaps you need a system that modifies their soul-based powers depending on their ethical choices and loyalty.

[general_azure]

I don't think there is such a thing as historical paladins.

[Osvir]

I would like to see Paladins that represent a multitude of "alignments." For example you should be able to be a paladin of good god x or of neutral god y or even evil god z. Each with different abilties you could take and such.

 

 

Bard....all I say is MEH!

 

Historically, Paladins where essentially knights, some of whom later became seekers of holy relics.

 

Holy Crusaders right?

[curryinahurry]

I would like to see Paladins that represent a multitude of "alignments." For example you should be able to be a paladin of good god x or of neutral god y or even evil god z. Each with different abilties you could take and such.

 

 

Bard....all I say is MEH!

 

Historically, Paladins where essentially knights, some of whom later became seekers of holy relics. They were lawful in the sense of being the champions of the king and were perceived as "good" because of their chivalric code. In this view they were not all that different from samurai. I don't think you need an alignment system in order to be able to model a character like this. But perhaps you need a system that modifies their soul-based powers depending on their ethical choices and loyalty.

 

You're thinking of Templars I believe. Paladins were the historical champions of Charlemagne's court. I'm not sure if they actually existed or not.

[AlphaShard]

I don't think there is such a thing as historical paladins.

 

You make me very very sad.

[general_azure]

I don't think there is such a thing as historical paladins.

 

You make me very very sad.

 

Well, it's a mean world.

[Amentep]

I would like to see Paladins that represent a multitude of "alignments." For example you should be able to be a paladin of good god x or of neutral god y or even evil god z. Each with different abilties you could take and such.

 

 

Bard....all I say is MEH!

 

Historically, Paladins where essentially knights, some of whom later became seekers of holy relics. They were lawful in the sense of being the champions of the king and were perceived as "good" because of their chivalric code. In this view they were not all that different from samurai. I don't think you need an alignment system in order to be able to model a character like this. But perhaps you need a system that modifies their soul-based powers depending on their ethical choices and loyalty.

 

You're thinking of Templars I believe. Paladins were the historical champions of Charlemagne's court. I'm not sure if they actually existed or not.

 

The word predates the original fiction cycle "The Matter of France", though, but I've not seen the context. Its derived from a latin word referring to high level court officials.

 

The Charlemagne cycle makes the Paladins the 12 knight peers of Charlemagne's court. Roland/Orlando is typically one of the 12.

 

I mention this so that I may say that not only do I support Paladins in the game, I support funky headgear as seen in 'I paladini - Storia d'armi e d'amori' aka Hearts and Armour an adaption of the Italian version of the Paladins from Orlando Furiouso

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9H3TJZy2CE&feature=related

[Uomoz]

From the Q&A

 

Question: Will the classes be extremely close to the old DnD style or are they going to have their own unique flavor?

Feargus: They will have the DnD feeling but with some fun twists. In other words, not that there will be Paladins, , but if there were to be Paladins - they will feel like them but be tied into how magic and the gods work in the world of PE.

[curryinahurry]

Epic Amentap. Truly Epic.

[Amentep]

Epic Amentap. Truly Epic.

 

You can't go wrong with that movie.

[dlux]

From the Q&A

 

Question: Will the classes be extremely close to the old DnD style or are they going to have their own unique flavor?

Feargus: They will have the DnD feeling but with some fun twists. In other words, not that there will be Paladins, , but if there were to be Paladins - they will feel like them but be tied into how magic and the gods work in the world of PE.

 

Hmmmm, excellent.

[Merin]

I don't think there is such a thing as historical paladins.

 

Wonders what 2 seconds of internet searching can do for ignorance -

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin

[pseudonymous]

I don't think there is such a thing as historical paladins.

 

Wonders what 2 seconds of internet searching can do for ignorance -

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin

 

*sigh* please don't use Wikipedia as a reference for anything but how incredibly stupid the human race is becoming

[Merin]

I don't think there is such a thing as historical paladins.

 

Wonders what 2 seconds of internet searching can do for ignorance -

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin

 

*sigh* please don't use Wikipedia as a reference for anything but how incredibly stupid the human race is becoming

 

Please stop the conspiracy theory that wikipedia is useless. Like any piece of writing, check the references. Here are the references on the wikipedia page for Paladins -

 

----

References

 

1. ^ ^{a b c d e f g} "Paladin". From the Oxford English Dictionary. Retrieved November 23, 2008.
   
2. ^ ^{a b} "Palatine". From the Oxford English Dictionary. Retrieved November 23, 2008.
   
3. ^ Wilson, Peter H. The Thirty Years War; Europe's Tragedy, Harvard University Press, 2009
   
4. ^ Dutton, Paul Edward, ed. and trans. Charlemagne's Courtier: The Complete Einhard, pp. 21-22. Peterborough, Ontario, Canada: Broadview Press, 1998.
   
5. ^ Conradus the priest (12th century), Song of Roland. ISBN 3-920153-02-2
   
6. ^ Frank, Grace, La Passion du Palatinus : mystère du XIVe siècle, in : Les Classiques français du moyen âge (30) Paris 1922.
   
7. ^ The Divine Comedy, Canto XXXII.
   

 

----

 

So, what you are saying is that, what, the human race is incredibly stupid for trusting the Oxford English Dictionary, a book published by the Harvard University Press, and the Song of Roland?

 

....

 

Right. I think you questioning the credibility of wikipedia...

... is ironic.

[general_azure]

I don't think there is such a thing as historical paladins.

 

Wonders what 2 seconds of internet searching can do for ignorance -

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin

 

Since you obviously have not read that article, let me point out the third sentence to you: "The paladins and their associated exploits are largely later fictional inventions".

 

You're welcome.

[Osvir]

I don't think there is such a thing as historical paladins.

 

Wonders what 2 seconds of internet searching can do for ignorance -

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin

 

*sigh* please don't use Wikipedia as a reference for anything but how incredibly stupid the human race is becoming

 

Are you kidding me? Wikipedia is the Book of Knowledge.

 

What if you've never heard about Paladins? How would I find out what a Paladin is? Go to the Library? Find some games? How would I find the correct knowledge?

 

Now, Wikipedia is controversial in itself and how can we know that what is said there rings true? I happen to know that... just like we are sitting here discussing old school games passionately, there are people sitting in a Wikipedia Forum (Called the "Tea Room") just as passionately as us, finding authenticity in what is posted on it. Don't undermine Wikipedia.

[el pinko grande]

Since you obviously have not read that article, let me point out the third sentence to you: "The paladins and their associated exploits are largely later fictional inventions".

 

You're welcome.

 

The context changes if you quote the entire sentence instead of just cherry-picking:

 

"The paladins and their associated exploits are largely later fictional inventions, with some basis on historical Frankish retainers of the 8th century and events such as the Battle of Roncevaux Pass and the confrontation of the Frankish Empire with Umayyad Al-Andalus in the Marca Hispanica."

 

So yes, there are historical "paladins." No their exploits do not resemble the Song of Roland.

 

You're welcome.

[Merin]

I don't think there is such a thing as historical paladins.

 

Wonders what 2 seconds of internet searching can do for ignorance -

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladin

 

Since you obviously have not read that article, let me point out the third sentence to you: "The paladins and their associated exploits are largely later fictional inventions".

 

You're welcome.

 

...

 

You're serious?

 

What is your point? That monks, ciphers and mages ARE real and not fictional?

 

No, of course not.

 

That because something is part of literature it isn't historical?

 

I think that's what you mean.

 

Now, here's the problem...

 

I don't think anyone, anywhere, was claiming that there were REAL paladins, especially the kind you find in D&D.

 

Just like there weren't rangers or druids or bards like you find in D&D.

 

But that there is precedence, historically in literature, of paladins before D&D.

 

That's what I meant.

 

Paladins are as fictional, as much literary constructions, as KNIGHTS. The "knighted" people, the lowest level of aristocracy of the medieval period, were not heroes, protectors of the people, or any such nonsense. They were warlords, people with the most powerful weapons of their day, who lorded over people by the point of their sword. The romantic notion of knighthood and chivalry was invented by the church to try and instill a sense of morality in the nobility - and it failed.

 

Paladins are as real as knights.

 

In any case, thanks for not understanding that historical doesn't have to refer to real people - it can refer to literature and ideas and beliefs.

[Osvir]

In any case, thanks for not understanding that historical doesn't have to refer to real people - it can refer to literature and ideas and beliefs.

 

Point taken

[Elerond]

I support fully paladins on PE, because they portrayal themselves as warriors of god, faith and good, but they don't shy away any methods to achive their goals. Even if that means torturing and burning thousands, killing all citizen of city which they see belong to their god. So they have are just fitting grey area class which purpose is law and goodness, but goodness of actions depend often of view point of things, like what is good in first place. For paladins meaning of good, comes from their faith and same is for evil, but as so often is one man's goodness is other's evilness.

Paladins (Inquisitors) at work

 

And I support bards also, if they are more like Väinämöinen from Kalevala, who could sing his enemies to swamp.

 

Joukahainen challenges Väinämöinen to a contest of wisdom and is defeated. With his singing' date=' Väinämöinen causes Joukahainen to sink into a swamp. In order to save himself, Joukahainen promises his sister' s hand in marriage to Väinämöinen. Upon learning of the bargain, the sister Aino mourns her fate and finally drowns herself.[/quote']

 

So he was very bad as minstrel and I would like see one of his kind in PE also

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4in%C3%A4m%C3%B6inen

[Umberlin]

You know, I never had an issue with Paladins in other settings really, but the only Paladin I ever actually liked . . . the Quest for Glory Paladin . . . probably wasn't very Paladin like (not religious). I still liked it better. It functioned off of an honor system rather than a system of divinity. It gained abilities as it performed honorable acts. It lost them for inactions that could be considered dishonorable/performing dishonorable acts.

 

The abilities were interesting, if some not well implemented. I always liked the danger/evil sixth sense which was the first ability you earned. The idea was interesting because, in theory, you could use it to help you avoid danger . . . but it never actually worked like that in the game. Being able to light bring their sword alight with blue flame was also an ability tied to honor, along with the ability to heal and shield themselves from harm and other effects. They made a point of them being 'not magic really' by having things take up Stamina, rather than Mana. A sort of 'take of myself that you might be healed' mechanic. Sacrificial rather than magical, which, apart from honor, seemed a constant for Paladins you heard about in QfG, simply because almost all of their lives ended . . . badly.

 

Except for Rakeesh, and you, obviously. Well, bad things could happen to Rakeesh too, potentially.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Umberlin

[general_azure]

In any case, thanks for not understanding that historical doesn't have to refer to real people - it can refer to literature and ideas and beliefs.

 

Interesting... the english language never ceases to amaze me. I kinda assumed it was identical to the german "historisch" and that one is defined in a "having existed in the past" way. Of course it can refer to literature as well, but the difference between a person from historical literature and a historical person is quite vast (again, in the german interpretation of the word).

 

Now if you guys had simply said "the historical picture of paladins is this and that" instead of "historical paladins are this and that", there had never been any disagreement =P

 

And yes, during the 15 pages of this thread I did get the notion of people believing in REAL paladins a few times. But maybe that was crude language as well.

 

Anyways, I'll sign off from this thread before more confusion arrises. Pretty much everything worthwhile on the topic has probably been said by now.... and I still think some fanatic church order catering to fighters and priests as a faction ingame (with corresponding quests) would be a suitable replacement for the traditional D&D paladin class.

[rjshae]

Rather than a D&D-style bard, how about a class that blends music and entertainment with healing? They can heal the body and soul through their music, but their knowledge of physiology, toxins, alchemy, herbalism, and disease also makes them dangerous foes. Perhaps they use something equivalent to the asklepios as their symbol?

[Amentep]

Rather than a D&D-style bard, how about a class that blends music and entertainment with healing? They can heal the body and soul through their music, but their knowledge of physiology, toxins, alchemy, herbalism, and disease also makes them dangerous foes. Perhaps they use something equivalent to the asklepios as their symbol?

 

Or - they could always use this as a basis for a battle bards:

 

 

[Osvir]

Rather than a D&D-style bard, how about a class that blends music and entertainment with healing? They can heal the body and soul through their music, but their knowledge of physiology, toxins, alchemy, herbalism, and disease also makes them dangerous foes. Perhaps they use something equivalent to the asklepios as their symbol?

 

Or - they could always use this as a basis for a battle bards:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlK3DFl9ul8&feature=related

 

 

Yes. YES! DO IT! *nerd rage!*