Wish the devs will tell us more about the nature of Project Eternity Politics

[Troller]

Ok, first of all, I'm not trying to offend anyone here with this post, I'm just curious about how the game will be, like most of the fans posting in this forum.

 

So far what I have been seeing is that any opinion, that looks like something that might not please some minority, gets locked and reprimanded immediately.I understand that offending someone is not good, but some people just have different opinions, and this must be something that everyone gotta keep in mind.

Just because you and your friends don't like someone's opinion and are insulting him, doesn't mean that this person is evil, and want you all dead. Me for example, I get insulted a lot here by crowds, that doesn't mean that I hate you all, I believe in freedom of speech and respecting other peoples different opinions.

 

The impression from what has been spoken so far is that this game will be made to pander specifically to certain minorities that keep spamming the forums, totally alienating the traditional values.This kind of disrespect for the traditional values is considered an insult to many people, they just don't complain and spam the forums about it, because it's common sense, that if you disregard certain values and morals, that will make your product worse.

 

I just want the developers to come clean about what is going on in their heads when they are making the game play and story decisions. Wouldn't that be good for the community? At the /v/ board in 4chan at least, I'm sure it would, all threads there, about Project Eternity, get derailed in a war between people defending this other people rights, and it's all about rights and politics, and degenerates, and bigots...needless to say, It's not pretty.

 

Maybe if we take this subject aside we could all discuss some stuff that is common grounds for all of us, like gameplay mechanics that are fun and good for RPGS, anything that won't involve politics.

 

I really hope this doesn't offend anyone, If it did offend you, please just PM me, let's try to work this out, no need to bring in the mods and your friends to throw stones at the ugly troll.

[Monte Carlo]

You call yourself Troller and every post seems carefully designed to fan the flames of the kulturkampf.

 

[Retro1210]

I agree with OP, but why not just ask them on their fourmsprings?

[Troller]

I agree with OP, but why not just ask them on their fourmsprings?

Because I don't use such method of communication? Because I want everyone to discuss the problem in a public thread, so that everyone can voice their own opinion?

[Cantousent]

"So far what I have been seeing is that any opinion, that looks like something that might not please some minority, gets locked and reprimanded immediately."

 

I'm not calling you out on this, but it just seems untrue on its face. Even threads which eventually get locked tend to go on for pages of flames before-hand. I haven't always agreed with the mods around here, and I've been politely reprimanded by Fionavar, but I think the mods have been *particularly* understanding in the Project Eternity fora.

 

You have freedom of speech, so answer obnoxious or ill-reasoned speech with something better. No matter how many people shout you down, an informed and well considered comment will still find some cache here. Some of the devs might even see your response and it may be that you carry the day without even knowing it.

 

Finally, keep in mind the kickstarter hasn't even completed, let alone the long long road to bringing the product to market. The devs can't come clean about everything when they don't know what everything will be yet.

 

EDIT: aside from fixing a typo, I figure this is as good a place for me to point out the fact that the Project Eternity banner at the top of the forum doesn't show properly and is cut in half. I PMed a mod earlier, and I'm sure they already know and other folks have posted, but I actually find it distracting now that I know it's there.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Cantousent

[Retro1210]

Hmm well alright. I personally wouldn't mind LBGT and feminism issues in my games as long as its nowhere near the main issue and is not forced down my throat ala mass effect 3 and "synthesis".

[Troller]

You call yourself Troller and every post seems carefully designed to fan the flames of the kulturkampf.

 

I just have different opinions than most people, I have come to accept this is a bad thing, but I can't really do much about it, other than shut up. Since this is an online forum and I can voice without getting beat up or murdered, all is good

[Monte Carlo]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and tell you where I am: My politics are unambiguously right-of-centre, but I am a trenchant social liberal (in a classical liberal sense, i.e. libertarian). I see no contradiction in being strongly Gay-rights, while at the same time despising Cultural Marxists who feel the need to shepherd everyone into the blind alley that is identity politics. Many Gay people I know broadly share this view, and the ones that don't still respect it.

 

So for me this is an issue of tolerance. You might not approve of another person's lifestyle. In fact, you might find it repugnant. I'd defend your right to feel that way as long as it doesn't adversely impact on others. As for freedom of speech? This forum isn't private property. If you opened Troller.com you could say what you liked and I'd take up arms to defend your right to say it. But not here. This is someone else's house.

 

In this house they are an inclusive, tolerant bunch. I daresay my politics would get short shrift at the Obsidian Christmas party. No matter, I am allowed in their house and while I'm here I will respect their inclusivity and what they want to achieve with their work.

 

And I think this forum would be better if we all did broadly the same, whilst engaging in the time-honored snarky banter that is de rigeur on gaming fora.

 

Peace

[Gorth]

The impression from what has been spoken so far is that this game will be made to pander specifically to certain minorities that keep spamming the forums, totally alienating the traditional values.This kind of disrespect for the traditional values is considered an insult to many people, they just don't complain and spam the forums about it, because it's common sense, that if you disregard certain values and morals, that will make your product worse.

Exactly. For too many years, us who likes iso-metric, tactical squad combat based crpg been downtrodden and oppressed by the major publishers and our core values, that games should be challenging without being impossible, guide you without always fondling your hand been ridiculed as some kind of genetic disorder that could be cured by adding QTE's and mini games to make us see the error of our ways. Stand for it no more! Time to arrange an Old School Pride Parade somewhere and wave signs with SSI Goldbox, "No to FPS" and equal rights for all camera angles!

[Retro1210]

The impression from what has been spoken so far is that this game will be made to pander specifically to certain minorities that keep spamming the forums, totally alienating the traditional values.This kind of disrespect for the traditional values is considered an insult to many people, they just don't complain and spam the forums about it, because it's common sense, that if you disregard certain values and morals, that will make your product worse.

Exactly. For too many years, us who likes iso-metric, tactical squad combat based crpg been downtrodden and oppressed by the major publishers and our core values, that games should be challenging without being impossible, guide you without always fondling your hand been ridiculed as some kind of genetic disorder that could be cured by adding QTE's and mini games to make us see the error of our ways. Stand for it no more! Time to arrange an Old School Pride Parade somewhere and wave signs with SSI Goldbox, "No to FPS" and equal rights for all camera angles!

 

You know I would be all up for that.

[Retro1210]

You know OP you should try to reach them on the formspring, or not have made the thread on a update day.

[Tigranes]

I have zero problem with what the OP says, if the developers do indeed have such a hidden agenda. It would be a perfectly valid critique to make; being a minority doesn't automatically shield you from anything.

 

My problem is that there's been nothing to indicate they think anything along those lines, unless you have an exceptionally paranoid, or imaginative, reading.

 

I just want the developers to come clean about what is going on in their heads when they are making the game play and story decisions.

 

There's nothing to come clean about, as far as I can see.

[Retro1210]

 

I just want the developers to come clean about what is going on in their heads when they are making the game play and story decisions.

 

There's nothing to come clean about, as far as I can see.

 

Well It more like " Can you disprove these rumors so we can have at least one thread with no obvious troll posts filling up half the threads and people beliving them, then they will take their pledges bakc." I know its 4chan but the amount of hate and misinformation that goes in there is insane

 

 

Every fan of obsidiaon is an edgy teenager who hates moral people

Avellone hates good alignments

Publishers put Obsidian in its place

Obsidian pandering to reddit

Obsidrone, Obsidiot, Obsitard

J.E. Sawyer pandering to Tumblr

J.E. Sawyer donated to Anita Sarkeesian

Tim Cain is gay

Avellone sounds gay

Obsidian is going to take the money and run

 

This is your average Project:Eternity thread on /v/

[choasrepeated]

Ok, first of all, I'm not trying to offend anyone here with this post, I'm just curious about how the game will be, like most of the fans posting in this forum.

 

So far what I have been seeing is that any opinion, that looks like something that might not please some minority, gets locked and reprimanded immediately.I understand that offending someone is not good, but some people just have different opinions, and this must be something that everyone gotta keep in mind.

Just because you and your friends don't like someone's opinion and are insulting him, doesn't mean that this person is evil, and want you all dead. Me for example, I get insulted a lot here by crowds, that doesn't mean that I hate you all, I believe in freedom of speech and respecting other peoples different opinions.

 

The impression from what has been spoken so far is that this game will be made to pander specifically to certain minorities that keep spamming the forums, totally alienating the traditional values.This kind of disrespect for the traditional values is considered an insult to many people, they just don't complain and spam the forums about it, because it's common sense, that if you disregard certain values and morals, that will make your product worse.

 

I just want the developers to come clean about what is going on in their heads when they are making the game play and story decisions. Wouldn't that be good for the community? At the /v/ board in 4chan at least, I'm sure it would, all threads there, about Project Eternity, get derailed in a war between people defending this other people rights, and it's all about rights and politics, and degenerates, and bigots...needless to say, It's not pretty.

 

Maybe if we take this subject aside we could all discuss some stuff that is common grounds for all of us, like gameplay mechanics that are fun and good for RPGS, anything that won't involve politics.

 

I really hope this doesn't offend anyone, If it did offend you, please just PM me, let's try to work this out, no need to bring in the mods and your friends to throw stones at the ugly troll.

Just mildly curious, by traditional values you mean people who prefer advanced dungeons and dragons edition 3 play styles oposed to adapting a more so many uses per combat adnd 4th edition style?

 

Or is it more of a question of if armour class should go up or down as it gets better?

[YourVoiceisAmbrosia]

I think what OP is wondering is if there is going to be some form of political agenda by the devs put into the game. Most people don't really mind gay or lesbian characters, but get annoyed when a character is basically a political soapbox for LGBT rights and feminism, or when these two are forced upon the player and practically beaten over their heads in a ham fisted way. For example, Bioware made all of the party characters bisexual in Dragon Age 2, and it was virtually impossible to be friendly to male characters as a male PC without getting hit on. New Vegas handled it well; Veronica and Arcade Gannon were homosexual, but they didn't feel the need to constantly remind you of the fact and it was revealed in subtle ways. What people are worried about is basically if Obsidian is going to try way too hard to appear politically correct, to the point of pandering where it ends up negatively impacting the narrative and the characters.

 

I have zero problem with what the OP says, if the developers do indeed have such a hidden agenda. It would be a perfectly valid critique to make; being a minority doesn't automatically shield you from anything.

 

My problem is that there's been nothing to indicate they think anything along those lines, unless you have an exceptionally paranoid, or imaginative, reading.

 

I just want the developers to come clean about what is going on in their heads when they are making the game play and story decisions.

 

There's nothing to come clean about, as far as I can see.

 

Well the thing is there was a post on SomethingAwful that vaguely implied that Sawyer may be vouching for something akin to this. Also, Sawyer backed Tropes vs Women, which was an extremely controversial Kickstarter campaign that was created by a very radical feminist group. It's more or less a paranoia sort of thing- people have seen stuff like this happen in the past, and they are worried if it would impact Project Eternity. Apparently, however, there are some individuals from communities that refused or dropped pledges because they feared that this would happen.

Edited October 4, 2012 by YourVoiceisAmbrosia

[Vampero]

I just want the developers to come clean about what is going on in their heads when they are making the game play and story decisions. Wouldn't that be good for the community? At the /v/ board in 4chan at least, I'm sure it would, all threads there, about Project Eternity, get derailed in a war between people defending this other people rights, and it's all about rights and politics, and degenerates, and bigots...needless to say, It's not pretty.

 

They will come clean once they have all our money. That way if you don't like what the makeup of the game is, It will be too late they have our money. We are all taking chances on how we think the game will turn out in the end.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Vampero

[Silver6986]

Wow, OP, give it time to settle a little bit, there is so much speculation surrounding this game right now it's crazy.

 

I would think that if anyone has the guts to back such a project then there would be some level of trust in the devs that they will make one helluva game.

 

This thing isn't even out of kickstarter yet!

 

For me, their stated objectives/goals/ideas or w/ever you want to call them, they scream to me that they really care about creating a game with all the hallmarks of an IE game, you should stop questioning so much and just have a tinsy bit of faith in these guys.

 

Preject Eternity is literally everything I would have liked to have seen done with Dragon Age: Origins, I mean when all is said and done that game was ok imo, but then that lump of cr8p Bioware spat out called Dragon Age 2, na ah, not touching anything else Dragon Age related.

 

The devs need to be given some space to come up with all that epicness, just give it time...

[nikolokolus]

Wow, OP, give it time to settle a little bit, there is so much speculation surrounding this game right now it's crazy.

 

I would think that if anyone has the guts to back such a project then there would be some level of trust in the devs that they will make one helluva game.

 

This thing isn't even out of kickstarter yet!

 

For me, their stated objectives/goals/ideas or w/ever you want to call them, they scream to me that they really care about creating a game with all the hallmarks of an IE game, you should stop questioning so much and just have a tinsy bit of faith in these guys.

 

Preject Eternity is literally everything I would have liked to have seen done with Dragon Age: Origins, I mean when all is said and done that game was ok imo, but then that lump of cr8p Bioware spat out called Dragon Age 2, na ah, not touching anything else Dragon Age related.

 

The devs need to be given some space to come up with all that epicness, just give it time...

 

Pretty much all of this verbatim.

 

 

ps. Good god, DA2 ... ugh, I don't even know what to say about that POS.

[Badmojo]

I think what OP is wondering is if there is going to be some form of political agenda by the devs put into the game. Most people don't really mind gay or lesbian characters, but get annoyed when a character is basically a political soapbox for LGBT rights and feminism, or when these two are forced upon the player and practically beaten over their heads in a ham fisted way. For example, Bioware made all of the party characters bisexual in Dragon Age 2, and it was virtually impossible to be friendly to male characters as a male PC without getting hit on. New Vegas handled it well; Veronica and Arcade Gannon were homosexual, but they didn't feel the need to constantly remind you of the fact and it was revealed in subtle ways. What people are worried about is basically if Obsidian is going to try way too hard to appear politically correct, to the point of pandering where it ends up negatively impacting the narrative and the characters.

 

I have zero problem with what the OP says, if the developers do indeed have such a hidden agenda. It would be a perfectly valid critique to make; being a minority doesn't automatically shield you from anything.

 

My problem is that there's been nothing to indicate they think anything along those lines, unless you have an exceptionally paranoid, or imaginative, reading.

 

I just want the developers to come clean about what is going on in their heads when they are making the game play and story decisions.

 

There's nothing to come clean about, as far as I can see.

 

Well the thing is there was a post on SomethingAwful that vaguely implied that Sawyer may be vouching for something akin to this. Also, Sawyer backed Tropes vs Women, which was an extremely controversial Kickstarter campaign that was created by a very radical feminist group. It's more or less a paranoia sort of thing- people have seen stuff like this happen in the past, and they are worried if it would impact Project Eternity. Apparently, however, there are some individuals from communities that refused or dropped pledges because they feared that this would happen.

 

Pretty much this.

[rjshae]

Wow, this forum sure does attract some diverse opinions.

Edited October 4, 2012 by rjshae

[Badmojo]

Wow, OP, give it time to settle a little bit, there is so much speculation surrounding this game right now it's crazy.

 

I would think that if anyone has the guts to back such a project then there would be some level of trust in the devs that they will make one helluva game.

 

This thing isn't even out of kickstarter yet!

 

For me, their stated objectives/goals/ideas or w/ever you want to call them, they scream to me that they really care about creating a game with all the hallmarks of an IE game, you should stop questioning so much and just have a tinsy bit of faith in these guys.

 

Preject Eternity is literally everything I would have liked to have seen done with Dragon Age: Origins, I mean when all is said and done that game was ok imo, but then that lump of cr8p Bioware spat out called Dragon Age 2, na ah, not touching anything else Dragon Age related.

 

The devs need to be given some space to come up with all that epicness, just give it time...

 

Pretty much all of this verbatim.

 

 

ps. Good god, DA2 ... ugh, I don't even know what to say about that POS.

 

I miss the old bioware before EA bought them out and gutted them. The difference between DAO and DA2 shows clearly everything wrong with EAware now and why people are throwing money at PE.

[GhostofAnakin]

I wouldn't mind hearing about the general basics of how politics might work in PE, but I really don't want too much detail. I'd rather experience the actual details of the political climate when I play the game.

[Troller]

I wouldn't mind hearing about the general basics of how politics might work in PE, but I really don't want too much detail. I'd rather experience the actual details of the political climate when I play the game.

That's fair, but there are also those of us that want to know now how it's going to be. For me, many movies, games and tv shows these days, become unwatchable\unplayable once I get to know the political agendas withing them. Some stuff just trigger the bull**** detector and I have to turn it off immediately, I'm just hoping it won't be the case with Project Eternity.

[GhostofAnakin]

That's fair, but there are also those of us that want to know now how it's going to be. For me, many movies, games and tv shows these days, become unwatchable\unplayable once I get to know the political agendas withing them. Some stuff just trigger the bull**** detector and I have to turn it off immediately, I'm just hoping it won't be the case with Project Eternity.

 

But isn't that part of the whole fun of playing the game? Finding this stuff out for yourself? It's similar to wanting to know more about the game's story. Tidbits of information are one thing, perhaps, but at some point you're spoiling the game for yourself by knowing too much before you even start up a game, IMO.

[Sarog]

I suppose that, this being a kickstarter project, there is an argument to be made that people who don't mind spoilers should get a little insight into the themes and messages that the game might advocate, and any political causes it might allegorically champion.

 

I'm not about to cut my pledge over any single thing, but I can imagine that if the finished product was loaded with messages that I'm not comfortable with, I might likewise feel uncomfortable that I helped finance it. Some transparency in that area would probably be responsible.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Sarog